U50 Preview 1: New Universal Enhancement Tree: Horizon Walker

[Coffey]

Just WOW.

Archer "pass" didn't fix IPS, HW gives us pseudo AoE.

Archer "pass" nerfed MS, HW gives us 2 extra charges of something that's supposed to be a core ability for archers.

Archer "pass" killed Monkchers, HW gives us Abundant Step.

Just to make sure, HW also gives us AA's Conjure Arrows, DWS's Improved AF, Elves' DM's Displacement and a bunch of other stuff.

Yeah I totally believe Archer "pass" was intended to improve bow combat overall and not to lay the ground for selling HW, suuure.

Edit: almost forgot, this will get nerfed some time after release, when enough people have purchased it.

Its Hot Garbage piled on top of the ashes.

[Zuldar]

I'd add to the capstone "When you Vorpal a marked target gain 1 Manyshot charge". I'd also like to see some more stuff added to scattershot, right now it's a bit lackluster. Unless you're using a real AoE you're better off taking out one mob at a time since a mob with even 1 hp is just as deadly as a fresh one. Maybe add some follow-up enhancements to it that mark targets or apply some sort of debuff.

Than again Deep Wood Stalker is already the single target bow tree, so maybe it would be better to have Horizon Walker be the AoE bow tree. Focus on scattershot rather than the marking system and improved precise shot over archer's focus. Scattershot is a way more interesting feature with a lot of room for improvement.

Right now it's thematically too similar to DWS and would be better off having it's own identity.

[Alrik_Fassbauer]

Wind Howler Bracers + Horizon Walker = profit.

[Carpone]

Mark Target is great for red/purple named, some champions and when Corner the Quarry is off cooldown for an instakill via Banish the Quarry. The math doesn't work using it on trash mobs. You're better hitting the mobs with another auto-attack instead of spending the time to mark a target.

For bows, ditching Harper/KtA for HW/No Step Missed to net +5 dmg for +1 AP is a no brainer.
Non-alchemist throwing dagger builds want to use No Step Missed, but it's 5 more AP than KtA. Oof.

20 Ranger split between DWS/HW while in Shiradi: Too many damned buttons to press.

[Dendrix]

We did place No Step Missed very intentionally. Doesn't mean its position won't change, just that we're keeping an eye on it.

How I would build a melee in here:
- Core 1 (Marking works for anyone, not just archers)
- Eye for Accuracy x3 (Attack works for any weapon-user)
- Weathered Gear x1 (item defense works for anybody)
- Skilled Navigator x3 (saves vs. traps good for anybody)
- Core 2 (upgrades the Mark)
- Fav Enemy: Evil Outsider (works for any weapon-user), or alternately the other two ranks of Item Defense.

That should give you enough to reach the Trance, and no skills that don't do anything on your melee.

I'm sorry I have to disagree with you, I consider that a lot of the points you spend don't do anything

- Core 1: useful, required
- Eye for Accuracy x3: useful, not exciting, but it is useful.
- Weathered Gear x1: 100% Completely useless ability. Items don't break in quests. Repair costs are irrelevant and 1 level rather than 3 means you are just splashing a point here because you haven't got anything useful to spend it on.
- Skilled Navigator x3: Save vs traps is generally pointless for a melee (other than a rogue). Trap damage is often so high it kills you if you make your save. The DC is so high that you can't make your save unless you roll a 20. No melee should be subjected to static traps, that's why you have rogues, to remove the trap. This is extremely situational also.
- Core 2 (upgrades the Mark): useful
- Fav Enemy: Evil Outsider: Situational ability, occasionally useful. That you equate it with item defence means my comments about that also apply.


Eliminating Weathered Gear and Skilled Navigator and replacing those with genuinely useful abilities would make this tree much more useful for a melee.

[Sylveny]

I agree with most of what has been posted here before, but just wanted to say that flavor wise, this tree looks really great, at least for me, the thematic of it and everything.

I hope devs listen to players in regards of power level and the general usability of the marking system, it could be too clunky to get everything going when things could be just passives.

And I know this isn't supposed to be a Inquisitive tree, but it would be cool as reck to get something like Law on your side with the same scaling/dice as force damage(just do it like inquisitive, but you get more damage both on marked targets and outsiders), just take opening shot and fuse it if take the opening, and put the enhancement on one of tier 1 or 2 (better if tier 1 to help low level play), or take out the gear damage one.

Other thing that I missed and would be just flavor wise (as almost everyone can get enought UMD to use) would be a teleport SLA, it just makes sense, since the HW on D&D5e has teleport circle (slow casting, but on ddo that's what teleport is).

The mark system feels great for things like reapers, to have a chance to ban some of them would be great, talking about reapers, there should be a passive on the cores that gets around ghostly and incorporeality, it just makes sense in a DPS tree.

Again, just wanted to thank everyone that has put a lot of work on building this enhancement tree, worrying about the cool factor of it beyond just making it another bow tree, I just can't wait to see it hit live serves and see everywhere HW marks everywhere.

[Alrik_Fassbauer]

- Weathered Gear x1: 100% Completely useless ability. Items don't break in quests. Repair costs are irrelevant and 1 level rather than 3 means you are just splashing a point here because you haven't got anything useful to spend it on.

1. Mine do. Although mostly at lowest levels (which most people don't play anyway, I guess).
2. Repair costs are relevant after a character's death.

[Paisheng]

Why is "No Missed Step" a tier 3 enhancement when in Vistani the Wisdom counterpart (Deadly Instinct) is tier 4? They do exact same thing (one dex, one wisdom), so shouldn't they be available at the same tier? Either move dex up to tier 4 or fix vistani and move Deadly Instinct down to tier 3. Otherwise it appears favoritism to one of those stats and those that use them.

[Carpone]

Repair costs are relevant after a character's death.

Repair costs are trivial.

[Enderoc]

Why is "No Missed Step" a tier 3 enhancement when in Vistani the Wisdom counterpart (Deadly Instinct) is tier 4? They do exact same thing (one dex, one wisdom), so shouldn't they be available at the same tier? Either move dex up to tier 4 or fix vistani and move Deadly Instinct down to tier 3. Otherwise it appears favoritism to one of those stats and those that use them.

Why make favored souls choose a permanent spell list , they are just like cleric.. ...
NO

[Artos_Fabril]

Why is "No Missed Step" a tier 3 enhancement when in Vistani the Wisdom counterpart (Deadly Instinct) is tier 4?

I'm sure you meant Falconry rather than Vistani, but why not make the same argument regarding KTA in Harper as T2.

[Stravix]

I'm sure you meant Falconry rather than Vistani, but why not make the same argument regarding KTA in Harper as T2.

To be fair, it does compare more easily to falconry's one, as it is charge based instead of mana based, but you aren't wrong.

[cadaverash]

I've had a main toon archer for over 10 years.

I TR'ed him into a caster after the IPS nerf last year.

The archer "pass" (nerf) in U49 was awful, I looked it over on alt server.

Was holding out for archer hopes with HW, but this really looks like garbage.

At least this MMO has the TR option.

Other MMO's would have you delete your toon and restart from scratch if you didn't like the "nerf" (pass) thrown on your build.

I miss playing bow archer in DDO, crossbows and throwers were not as fun for me.

[Tianie]

Could you add a few more tier one and tier two Melee options.
Like add MP to Dodge and Strike.
This is so I have stuff to spend points on to get the Dex Trance.

[cru121]

Looking at Horizon Walker 3.5 prestige class
https://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeC...izonWalker.htm
I think it would be fun to embrace Terrain Mastery a bit more. There are some parts of it in the tree. But I could imagine that each core could be a multiselector.

Lesser terrain masteries (cores 1-2)
- Desert: Immune to fatigue, +2 hit/dmg vs monsters with "sand" in their name
- Forest: +2 Hide/MS, +2 hit/dmg vs animals and plants
- Urban: +2 social skills, +1d6 sneak attack
Medium terrain masteries (cores 3-4)
- Aquatic: Gain Evasion in water. When fighting in water and 1 minute afterwards, gain +2 hit/dmg.
- Fiery, Cold: Absorb % equal to character level; +2 hit/dmg vs fiery/cold creatures
- Weightless: Floating, Jump SLA, +2 hit/dmg vs floating enemies (Beholders!)
Planar terrain masteries (cores 5-6)
- Shifting: +5% stacking Ghostly; DDoor at will, 1 minute cooldown
- Aligned: Your weapon gains DR breaking of your alignment (also undocumented interaction with Embodiment of Law/Chaos legendary feats)
- Negative: Sealed Life, weapon breaks evil DR
- Positive: 30% Heal amp, weapon breaks good DR
- Shavarath: Full BAB
- Xoriat: Confuse on vorpal, 1% chance to summon Ooze on hit

[Carpone]

- Desert: Immune to fatigue, +2 hit/dmg vs monsters with "sand" in their name
- Forest: +2 Hide/MS, +2 hit/dmg vs animals and plants
- Fiery, Cold: Absorb % equal to character level; +2 hit/dmg vs fiery/cold creatures
- Weightless: Floating, Jump SLA, +2 hit/dmg vs floating enemies (Beholders!)

That's essentially favored enemy. I'm surprised there's not more focus with favored enemy in the HW tree, aside from the token FE: Evil Outsider enhancement.

[Krumm]

In general, I agree with lots of people that this tree is pretty lackluster, both in power and uniqueness.

Here are some of my ideas/suggestions.

Core 1, Mark Target - Targets you Mark have -4 AC, -5% Fortification, -3 Saving Throws per each core enhancement taken (maxes out at -24AC, -30% fortification, -18 savings throw)
Core 2, passive: +5 to Spot & Listen per each core taken (starts with +10 then maxes out at +30)
Core 3, once per rest, you can cast dimension door. Your Marked Targets get -10% movement speed. (no cooldown for dd)
Core 4, Marked targets get 1 stack vulnerability every 2 second as long as they remain marked (max 20 stack).
Core 5, Marked targets become automatically vulnerable to sneak attack.
Core 6, no change

Tier 1
Opening Shot: +1/2/3[w] bow attack. On 3rd enhancement point, if opening shot hits a creature that is at 100% of their hitpoint, creature is Marked Target.
Eye for Accuracy: +1/2/3% to attacks with weapon.

Tier 2
Dodge and Strike should be changed to "ranged attack +1/2/3[w], if hit, +10 Ranged Power for 12 second. 12 second cooldown"

Tier 5
Drop Walker's Guidance
Add Advanced Archer's Focus (preq: Improved Archer's Focus): You can move for 2/3/4 seconds without losing your archers focus stacks/stance. @2 enhancement point: You can tumble and use misty step without loosing archers focus stacks/stance.


idea is to to buff marked target for single target and make it useful for regular mobs by making it automatic with opening shot. Marked Target seem pretty weak as listed in OP.

[cru121]

That's essentially favored enemy. I'm surprised there's not more focus with favored enemy in the HW tree, aside from the token FE: Evil Outsider enhancement.

in a way, yes, but I feel that favored enemies in DDO are the domain of deepwood stalkers. that's kinda also the distinction in PnP. Rangers who become horizon walkers give up their FE progression and instead pick up terrain masteries with slightly different benefits.

[Artos_Fabril]

That's essentially favored enemy. I'm surprised there's not more focus with favored enemy in the HW tree, aside from the token FE: Evil Outsider enhancement.

Presumably they don't want to make a universal tree synergize that strongly with one class. It might also be that they're just getting out of hand. 4 from universal trees, 1 from racial AP, 1ED twist, 5 from ranger levels, and one from DWS. +24 hit and damage to 12 different monster types pretty well covers all of the necessary or even desired bases.

[amessi1]

This should already be a Ranger enhancement in the class trees since they are specialists with Bows.

yeah, so not wanting to give away too much, but core 6 in Horizon Walker and Tier 5 in Deep Woods Sniper looks delicious.