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  1. #1
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    Default DragonBorn FVS with 2 rogue splash for evasion/trapping. Doable?

    Was curious what folks thought about a 18 FVS, 2 Rogue, Dragonborn, going deep into the racial tree for the breath weapons.

    Trapping, evasion, blasting, and a little dc casting with cometfall, implosion, destruction..

  2. #2
    Founder Matuse's Avatar
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    The trick is going to be coming up with skillpoints. Every level you're going to want:

    1- Heal
    1- Spellcraft
    2- Disable
    2- Search

    Plus anything else for balance, jump, UMD, diplomacy, whatever.

    Without the human skill bonus, that's an 18 int to keep up. With tomes and judicious timing of the second rogue level, you could probably get by with a 16 or maaaaaaybe a 14, but it would be very tight.
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  3. #3
    Community Member Brightheart245's Avatar
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    Hey there,

    I think it sounds totally viable. Like Matuse mentioned, skill points will be tight. I would probably prioritize Disable first, then Search, since a point can make a difference in those versus Heal or Spellcraft. UMD is also a must have, at least for me personally, so it's just a matter of balancing your skill point assignment by level, in conjunction with finding proper (ideally, twink) gear at critical levels. If you didn't prioritize trapping skills first, there would not be much point in splashing Rogue at all, and a caster is absolutely more than just skills (especially in terms of DC) - a rogue, and 2 levels at that, kind of does.

    My friend played an SDK 18/2 FVS/ROG maybe a year ago? And I recall that it was highly DC capable, in both traps and spells and with very low investment (save for the common issue of running into spell resistance mobs on a non caster spec toon). I'm fairly sure you would be fine in a DB build, as long as you make sure you cover all your bases.

    One other thing about Dragonborn that is really going to help with this particular splash: Arcanum. The +3 spell penetration will be huge in DC casting, and can easily make up for the 2 potential caster levels that Rogue will occupy. Strongly recommend picking that up if you want to delve into DC casting (which is far more efficient than nuking in Reaper), even though they are 2AP each and you may have wanted to invest in some of the other neat stuff.

    If you think skills will be an issue, just don't forget stuff like Heroism/GH consumables, Prayer for +1, basically any other little boosts/buffs. I don't think trapping will be an issue in Heroics, but if you plan on going to Epics, you may start seeing issues. Still, there are always ways to increase skills - if you can do a little bit of preparation, having +3 skill tomes via sagas are good (if this is for a TR life).

    I'm assuming this will be primarily CHA spec, so keep in mind that Heal is a WIS skill. That may be the hardest to raise, but if you aren't planning on taking Force of Personality, a WIS item would certainly help there. Don't neglect if it you can fit it into your gear!

    Hope that helped!

    ~Sera
    Ghallanda | Seraphemia | Best Beaches Around | Celestial Radiance


  4. #4
    Community Member Selvera's Avatar
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    In regards to skillpoints; some things to take into mind.

    Search and Disable device are absolutely critical; you want them both maxed at 23 points at level 20. Plan it out beforehand.

    Heal and Spellcraft are not that important. You may be pushing 600-900 spellpower by endgame, and that extra +23 spell-power really doesn't matter all that much.

    UMD is moderately important. As a fvs you can use heal and raise dead scrolls without any UMD check, but if you want to tensers or teleport or greater heroism; UMD is what you need.

    If you craft a LGS trapping item; you can pretty much do traps level 26+. It's sort of that simple. Even if you struggle to trap in elite/reaper at lower levels, once you hit 26 and put on your lgs trapping item, you'll be fine.

    Epic levels give +1 all skills/level; which mostly means your UMD will be high enough with only moderate investment; when you get a high enough level.

    To maximize your skillpoints from your 2nd rogue level; don't take it before level 5.
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  5. #5
    Founder Matuse's Avatar
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    Search does not NEED to be maxxed out, because you will have Find Traps and that will give +9 search at max level. You want it to be very high, but if a couple of points go by the wayside then you won't really be missing anything. It's not like level 2 is stuffed to the gills with high-demand spells.
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  6. #6
    Community Member C-Dog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matuse View Post
    The trick is going to be coming up with skillpoints. Every level you're going to want:

    1- Heal
    1- Spellcraft
    2- Disable
    2- Search
    And, unless you, personally, have (most?) every trap in the game memorized, Spot. Being a Trapper without Spot is doable, but unless you do have them memorized, and/or are running with someone who does, or who has the Spot score you don't have (and then they can pro'ly trap too!), it's just depressing. BOOM/SLICE/ZAP!... well, you coulda disarmed that one... if you were still alive


    And, as S pointed out, full ranks in UMD is a game changer. Really.

    Quote Originally Posted by Matuse View Post
    Without the human skill bonus, that's an 18 int to keep up. With tomes and judicious timing of the second rogue level
    A +2 Int tome helps a lot.

    Far easier is to be happy w/ Evasion, and grab some Open Lock and full UMD, and call it good. Without an Int build, Trapping is not something to "just scrape by" with. :/

    Strongly recommend you use one of the Character Planners and plan this out in advance, level by level.

    GL!

  7. #7
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    Thanks for the responses. I planned taking Rogue at L4 and L8. I wasn't going to put much into concentration, but did, in my initial planning, get UMD,Search,Disable up to 17. I can redirect some points from spell craft/heal/etc.. to get disable to 23 and search as close as possible.

    feats are tight, i'll have completionist, max, empower, e.healing, arcane initiate, quicken, and heighten. I"m waffling on heighten. Spell pen has 3 wiz and 3 sorc past lives (i'm almost finished with the 3rd sorc life now) Sorc has been fun, but I'm really missing evasion and trapping. I think I have +4 on the search/disable skills from tomes, and +5 tomes for all the stats.

    I'm gonna try the dragonreborn racial tree. It looks fun, but it looks like the dcs on the breath weapons may be borked. I was thinking there might be some CC in that tree. I'll find out

  8. #8
    Founder Matuse's Avatar
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    I planned taking Rogue at L4 and L8
    Uh...very bad idea.

    If you're taking rogue levels, you take it at level 1. There's really no choice about that.

    At level 4, that's 7 points of Search/Disable that you need to make up because they were cross-class before and capped with half ranks. You'd need a 20 int to make your trapping viable.
    Kobold sentient jewel still hate you.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matuse View Post
    Uh...very bad idea.

    If you're taking rogue levels, you take it at level 1. There's really no choice about that.

    At level 4, that's 7 points of Search/Disable that you need to make up because they were cross-class before and capped with half ranks. You'd need a 20 int to make your trapping viable.
    At L8, I have search/disable maxed. All skill points from the 2 rogue levels go into S/D. After L8, I spend 4 points / level keeping S/D maxed out, and have 2 points to spend else where. Those points go into UMD and spellcraft. It works out with a starting int of 14. At L20, I have S/D at 23, UMB 14, spellcraft 22, Heal 10.

  10. #10
    Community Member Brightheart245's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aGarde View Post
    At L8, I have search/disable maxed. All skill points from the 2 rogue levels go into S/D. After L8, I spend 4 points / level keeping S/D maxed out, and have 2 points to spend else where. Those points go into UMD and spellcraft. It works out with a starting int of 14. At L20, I have S/D at 23, UMB 14, spellcraft 22, Heal 10.
    Just wanted to mention, at level 1, a Rogue's skill point formula is (8 + INT mod) x4. A Favored Soul's skill point formula at 1st level is going to be (2 + INT mod) x4. Taking Rogue for 1st level maximizes your skill point pool at 1st level where some classes have higher advantages over others - which, Rogue has the highest skill points across all classes. I think this is what Matuse was trying to explain.

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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matuse View Post
    If you're taking rogue levels, you take it at level 1. There's really no choice about that....
    Yes, because...

    Quote Originally Posted by Brightheart245 View Post
    Just wanted to mention, at level 1, a Rogue's skill point formula is (8 + INT mod) x4. A Favored Soul's skill point formula at 1st level is going to be (2 + INT mod) x4. ...
    In all these years, I have yet to see any viable argument against the standard wisdom of taking a splashed Rogue level at 1st level.
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  12. #12
    Community Member C-Dog's Avatar
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    Yeah, what was said above.

    It worries me that you're not seeing what everyone is seeing. So I'm going to take the time to lay it out. (We're all just givers here in the forums - can you just feel the love?)


    But before we get to that, it does not work out w/ an Int of 14 (at least not without an Int tome you didn't mention, or unless you're dropping your Leveling points into Int instead of your casting stat - and that would be an even bigger mistake!)...

    Quote Originally Posted by aGarde View Post
    After L8, I spend 4 points / level keeping S/D maxed out, and have 2 points to spend else where. (...) It works out with a starting int of 14...
    A favored Soul gets 2 skill points per level, plus +2/level from Int 14 = 4/level, not 6. So there's that... (not sure where you're getting the other 2 points?)

    So w/ 14 Int you can max 2 cross-class rogue skills, plus some very small slop in FS class skills.

    Something like this...

    18/2 Favored Soul/Rogue
    True Neutral Dragonborn

    Stats
    Intelligence. . 14

    Skills
    . . . . . F. F. F. R .F .F .F .R. F. F. F. F. F. F. F. F. F. F. F. F
    . . . . . 1. 2. 3. 4 .5 .6 .7 .8. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
    . . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
    Disable . . . . . .6. . . . . .5. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
    Search. . 2. ½. ½. 4 . . . . . 4 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .23
    Heal. . . 4. 1. 1. . .2 .1 .1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10
    Spellcr . 4. 1. 1. . .2 .1 .1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10
    UMD . . . 2. ½. ½. . . . 1. 1. 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6
    . . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
    . . . . .16. 4. 4 10. 4. 4. 4 10. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4


    So, I'd be interested to see your build plan detailed out.


    Quote Originally Posted by aGarde View Post
    At L8, I have search/disable maxed. All skill points from the 2 rogue levels go into S/D. After L8, I spend 4 points / level keeping S/D maxed out, and have 2 points to spend else where. Those points go into UMD and spellcraft. It works out with a starting int of 14. At L20, I have S/D at 23, UMD 14, spellcraft 22, Heal 10.
    Just for sake of argument, let's get you your 6 skill points/level, and compare the two...

    (Note: I'm not getting the same totals you got. Not sure what's up. Again, would be interested to see your spread.)

    18/2 Favored Soul/Rogue
    True Neutral Dragonborn
    +4 skill points/level, Rogue @ 4 & 8

    Stats
    Intelligence. . 18

    Skills
    . . . . . F. F. F. R .F .F .F .R. F. F. F. F. F. F. F. F. F. F. F. F
    . . . . . 1. 2. 3. 4 .5 .6 .7 .8. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
    . . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
    Disable . . . . . .7. . . . . .4. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
    Search. . 2. ½. ½. 4 . . . . . 4 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .23
    Spellcr . 4. 1. 1. . .2 .1 .1 . . 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 22
    UMD . . . 2. ½. ½. 1 .1 .1 .1 .4. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. 17
    Heal. . . 4. 1. 1. . .2 .1 .1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10
    Concent . 4. 1. 1. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6
    Jump. . . 4. 1. 1. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6
    . . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
    . . . . .24. 6. 6 12. 6. 4. 4 12. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6
    . . . . .24. 6. 6 12. 6. 6. 6 12. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6


    So, 3 core skills at/near max, a respectable UMD (17 vs. your 14?), and Heal 10, close enough to what you said.

    Notes:
    o Slop points are placed "where ever" - Concentration 6 won't do its job at high level play, so it's just a place holder here.

    o Also note that you can't do any trapping until Level 4 (and then not reliably for Level 6-7), so your character isn't providing that extra 30% xp on those early quests.


    Now let's try the same (Int 18, 6 Favored Soul pts/level) w/ Rog at level 1...

    18/2 Favored Soul/Rogue
    True Neutral Dragonborn
    +4 skill points/level, Rogue @ 1 & 8

    Stats
    Intelligence. . 18

    Skills
    . . . . . R .F .F .F .F .F .F .R. F. F. F. F. F. F. F. F. F. F. F. F
    . . . . . 1 .2 .3 .4 .5 .6 .7 .8. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
    . . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
    Disable . 4 . . . . . . . . . .7. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
    Search. . 4 .½ .½ .½ .½ .½ .½ .4. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
    Spellcr . 2 .3 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 . . 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 22
    UMD . . . 4 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. 17
    Heal. . . 2 . . 2. 2. 2. 1. 1. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .10
    Jump. . . 4 . . . . . . .1 .1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .6
    Repair. . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4
    Open Lock.4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4
    Balance . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4
    Haggle. . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4
    Swim. . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .3
    Concent . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2
    Tumble. . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .1
    . . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
    . . . . .48 .6 .6 .6 .6 .6 .6 12 .6 .6 .6 .6 .6 .6 .6 .6 .6 .6 .6 .6


    So, by moving Rogue to Level 1, we have gained...

    o Trapping from Level 1. Yay.
    o 4 pts in Open Lock (an infinite improvement over "OL 0", where you simply can't even try. And, w/ good gear, is "enough" even in high-level content if you don't mind re-rolling until you roll high.)
    o Jump 6 (should speak for itself as handy)
    o Haggle 4 (which is a ~about~ a 1% increase in selling price and ~2% in buying over Haggle 0 - it adds up over the life of a toon.)
    o Tumble 1 (for those "oops, forgot to switch back to FF gear" moments)
    o Swim 3 (every little bit above 0 helps against currents)
    o and a couple more that almost don't matter, except maybe during early levels - ymmv.

    So, no, it doesn't change the core skills, but it does add a lot of small but nice perks on the side.


    BUT... let's not forget this is with an 18 Int, which gets us back to the original question - is this build doable?

    Well, without further comment, with a 32 point build and using Charisma as your spell stat, yes, it's "doable"...

    Stats
    . . . . . . . .32pt
    . . . . . . . .----
    Strength. . . . 10
    Dexterity . . . .6
    Constitution. . 14. . .. 6 build points
    Intelligence. . 18. . . 16 build points
    Wisdom. . . . . .8
    Charisma. . . . 18. . . 10 build points

    Not sure I can recommend a caster build that doesn't max the casting stat, but there it is. (36 pt build could get a starting 19 Cha.)

    (and Insightful Reflexes for Evasion would help by +6, otherwise Evasion w/ a starting 6 Dex is... a debatable choice.)

    GL!
    Last edited by C-Dog; 02-27-2018 at 12:17 AM.

  13. #13
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    Thanks, I get the reasons for starting L1 as rogue. I did mention I have +5 stat tomes for all stats.. so 14 starting Int -> 19, and they now apply much earlier than before, so I get the benefits quickly.

    I'll run the char-gen again, and see if I can post both versions of the skill progressions. I hadn't considered Open Lock before, but now that you bring that up, it may be what tips me over the edge.

    My dex is 12 I think. Not great. I'll need a good dex item to help with the saves. Anyways, I'll post my final version then update on how it goes.

  14. #14

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    there is Stinging_Bee’s old Yeela build that used Shiradi and splashed also 1 wiz for use of magic missiles. It can be done with 17 fvs/2 rogue/1 wiz
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  15. #15
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    Here's one version starting with L1 rogue. I had to take force of personality and give up something.. either heighten or empower healing.. I gave up E.H. I also didn't put much into Search/Disable between Levels 2 and 7.. reserving L8 for the rest. I could take that 2nd rogue level sooner though. I'll play with when to take that 2nd level.

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 4.37.105
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Level 20 Neutral Good Dragonborn Male
    (2 Rogue \ 18 Favored Soul) 
    Hit Points: 306
    Spell Points: 1857 
    BAB: 14\14\19\24
    Fortitude: 16
    Reflex: 18
    Will: 22
    
                      Starting            Ending          
    Abilities        Base Stats         Base Stats        
    (36 Point)       (Level 1)          (Level 20)        
    Strength             10                 17            
    Dexterity            12                 19            
    Constitution         14                 21            
    Intelligence         14                 21            
    Wisdom               10                 17            
    Charisma             20                 32            
    
    Tomes Used
    +5 Tome of Strength used at level 1 \par +5 Tome of Dexterity used at level 1 \par +5 Tome of Constitution used at level 1 \par +5 Tome of Intelligence used at level 1 \par +5 Tome of Wisdom used at level 1 \par +5 Tome of Charisma used at level 1 \par 
                      Starting            Ending          
                     Base Skills        Base Skills       
    Skills           (Level 1)          (Level 20)        
    Balance               4                  6            
    Bluff                 0                  2            
    Concentration         0                 10            
    Diplomacy             0                  2            
    Disable Device        5                 26            
    Haggle                0                  2            
    Heal                  0                 22            
    Hide                  0                  2            
    Intimidate            0                  2            
    Jump                  4                  6            
    Listen                4                  6            
    Move Silently         4                  6            
    Open Lock             4                  6            
    Perform               n/a               n/a           
    Repair                1                  3            
    Search                5                 26            
    Spellcraft            0                 25            
    Spot                  4                  6            
    Swim                  2                  4            
    Tumble                2                  4            
    Use Magic Device      5                  7            
    
    Level 1 (Rogue)
    Skill: Balance (+4)
    Skill: Disable Device (+4)
    Skill: Jump (+4)
    Skill: Listen (+4)
    Skill: Move Silently (+4)
    Skill: Open Lock (+4)
    Skill: Search (+4)
    Skill: Spot (+4)
    Skill: Swim (+2)
    Skill: Tumble (+2)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
    Feat: (Selected) Force of Personality
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Artificer
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Barbarian
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Bard
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Cleric
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Cleric
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Cleric
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Druid
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Favored Soul
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Fighter
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Monk
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Paladin
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Ranger
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Rogue
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Sorcerer
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Sorcerer
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Sorcerer
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Warlock
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Wizard
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Wizard
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Wizard
    
    
    Level 2 (Favored Soul)
    Skill: Disable Device (+0.5)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Search (+0.5)
    Skill: Spellcraft (+2)
    Feat: (Deity) Follower of the Sovereign Host
    
    
    Level 3 (Favored Soul)
    Skill: Disable Device (+0.5)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Search (+0.5)
    Skill: Spellcraft (+2)
    Feat: (Favored Soul Bonus) Grace of Battle
    Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell
    
    
    Level 4 (Favored Soul)
    Ability Raise: CHA
    Skill: Heal (+3)
    Skill: Spellcraft (+2)
    
    
    Level 5 (Favored Soul)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+2)
    Skill: Spellcraft (+2)
    
    
    Level 6 (Favored Soul)
    Skill: Concentration (+3)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Completionist
    Feat: (Favored Soul Bonus) Energy Absorption: Fire
    
    
    Level 7 (Favored Soul)
    Skill: Concentration (+4)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
    
    
    Level 8 (Rogue)
    Ability Raise: CHA
    Skill: Disable Device (+6)
    Skill: Search (+6)
    
    
    Level 9 (Favored Soul)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spellcraft (+2)
    Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell
    Feat: (Favored Soul Bonus) Purity of Spirit
    
    
    Level 10 (Favored Soul)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
    
    
    Level 11 (Favored Soul)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
    
    
    Level 12 (Favored Soul)
    Ability Raise: CHA
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Past Life: Arcane Initiate
    Feat: (Favored Soul Bonus) Stout of Heart
    
    
    Level 13 (Favored Soul)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
    
    
    Level 14 (Favored Soul)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
    
    
    Level 15 (Favored Soul)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell
    
    
    Level 16 (Favored Soul)
    Ability Raise: CHA
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
    
    
    Level 17 (Favored Soul)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
    Feat: (Favored Soul Bonus) Energy Absorption: Acid
    
    
    Level 18 (Favored Soul)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Heighten Spell
    
    
    Level 19 (Favored Soul)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
    
    
    Level 20 (Favored Soul)
    Ability Raise: CHA
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Heal (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spellcraft (+1)

  16. #16
    Community Member
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    I guess the main question is can the trapping suffice from L3->7 with just the +3 search/disable + whatever item i can find, until I hit L8 and get it pumped back up? I can take L2 rogue at L6 and still come out fine on all the points. That would help. I guess that will be my plan!

  17. #17
    Founder Matuse's Avatar
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    A base +3 on trapping skills will work at 3, probably not so much at 7, especially if you are planning on running Elite/Reaper. If you're at Normal/Hard, then it should be ok. You'll probably need to do heavy investment in the first couple of skills in Mechanic to boost your trapping at the start.

    3 -> 7 doesn't sound like much, but it is. You're starting 3 by being 4 points down from where you should be, and then by 7 you're 8 points down. That's a lot.
    Kobold sentient jewel still hate you.

  18. #18
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    I moved L2 rogue to L6 and took completionist at L3.. that should help make up the skill point deficits. One last question, and thanks for all the responses..

    L18 feat , I'm waffling between Heighten, Empower Healing, Mental toughness, in that order of preference atm. Heighten to help make spells like cometfall, greater command stick more often.

  19. #19
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Since you have Artificer, you may wish to consider arty 2 splash instead of rogue. That would let you start with arty and take a metamagic feat; you can also use repeaters (+Harper if you've got it) until you've got enough FvS levels to make casting worthwhile.

    Downside is losing Evasion, of course, but I'm not sure your Reflex saves would be high enough regardless.
    Semi-retired Build Engineer. Everything was better back in our day. Get off my lawn.

  20. #20
    Community Member Brightheart245's Avatar
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    Hey again,

    Consider exchanging Force of Personality for Insightful Reflexes if you stick with the Rogue splash for Evasion. Despite gaining more +saves out of CHA (it being your primary stat spec for DC) rather than INT (likely secondary or even tertiary stat), the utility value is dampened by the fact that Favored Souls gain immunities via inherent buffs to some of the most deadly will based spells: Freedom of Movement for Hold Monster/Person and Protection from Evil from Command/Greater Command. Fear/Doom can be nullified with Greater Heroism and Fear Immunity augments/Remove Fear, respectively. Other things like Dancing Ball may pose a threat, but keep in mind it can be gusted by Gust of Wind or Cyclonic Blast scrolls. Crushing Despair can be negated by Good Hope. There are also more spell save type items than something that boosts reflex or trap saves. You may be also able to slot a blanket WIS augment somewhere to help with additional saves. However, without a strong reflex for evasion, some traps may be impossible for you to survive or not be interrupted by. Reflex type spells tend to be high damage like Lightning Bolt or Fireball, which you would be entirely able to avoid total damage altogether.

    If you decide to go 2 ART, Force of Personality would be completely justified IMO. I had the thought the other day that if this was perhaps a WIS build, it would have better complemented 2 ROG splash more than CHA (+spot, +will saves -> room to take Insightful Reflexes).

    Also, in the build planner you have chosen the Sovereign Host as your deity. I would also recommend considering Olladra - while you do not gain the negative level/death penalty removal from the Unyielding Sovereignty ability, Olladra heals your character to full and grants +1d6 stacking Luck bonus to all ability scores. I feel that as part trapper especially this will come very handy, for spell and trap DCs. Olladra's deity weapon is a sickle, although I believe that won't matter much to you.

    I've also noticed you've invested into Concentration, and you are taking Quicken at level 15. Are you keen on using Concentration up until that point? I often take Quicken as early as possible - I easily take it at level 1 because Maximize or Empower, even with twink SP gear, is a mana drainer until FVS gets SLAs (aside from Arcane Initiate). Because Rogue is your first level however, you could replace one of the other lvl 3 / 6 / 9 feats with 15 (would go with lvl 3 personally). And if this suits you, you could potentially remove Concentration off the list entirely (this means concentration with scroll healing or usage is terrible, if you plan to be dead set on using a lot of scrolls during combat, but more reign to distribute an extra point). Just food for thought!

    At level 10, you are missing Energy Absorption selector. So far you have Fire and Acid, which are excellent choices. Don't forget to pick between Cold or Electric for lvl 10! I used to go Electric due to Vault of Night's elec traps and other high elec spells, but the ice spell damage from the Ravenloft raids has swayed me towards Cold (despite Elec also being one of the secondary types).

    Anyhoo, hope this is helpful, take what you like and run with it I'm sure it'll be a fun build!

    ~Sera
    Ghallanda | Seraphemia | Best Beaches Around | Celestial Radiance


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