DragonBorn FVS with 2 rogue splash for evasion/trapping. Doable?

[aGarde]

CHA build was for getting UMD up to usable numbers as well as some Epic stuff, like energy burst, which is either INT or CHA. Mass Frog is wisdom based tho, but I can't get that until later in epics I believe. I did debate Wis vs Cha and went wis.

The Luck of Olladra peeked my interest initially too. I waffled between that and sov.host. I removed the concentration points altogether in the latest revamp.

I'll work on getting the evasion to high numbers, if I can't, I'll have to tweak the build to maybe go arti on the next go around. I really wanted evasion, but know it's gonna be rough getting and keeping the reflex saves to good levels. Insightful only gives a +1 to the save, and I think trying to keep a really high dex all the time has AC benefits as well.

leveling this toon up is gonna be painful initially I think

[unbongwah]

CHA build was for getting UMD up to usable numbers as well as some Epic stuff, like energy burst, which is either INT or CHA. Mass Frog is wisdom based tho, but I can't get that until later in epics I believe. I did debate Wis vs Cha and went wis.

You said you planned to use dragon breath, though; that's always based on CHA, IIRC. And instead of Mass Frog you could take Hellball.

[Brightheart245]

Oops, sorry I had meant to clarify the WIS suggestion was more of an open idea, so if in the off chance changing to another race was an option, WIS would just seem like the stronger complement to a /2 Rogue build! I assumed CHA was still your go to spec for this build.

I think the build won't be as difficult as say, a pure FVS caster levelling up, especially with potentially 30% more XP with Rogue. Have a little bit of range with weapon proficiency from the added class too for lower heroic levels which is honestly the part where I struggle through the most, for divine casters at least.

~Sera

[aGarde]

Here's the final build I'll try to do. I had to take the 2nd level of rogue at L7 for some reason. If I took it at L6, the FVS class feat wouldn't let me take energy absorption.. only "knowledge of battle".
Completionist at L3 gives me another 3 skill points.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 4.37.105
DDO Character Planner Home Page

rog-fvs 
Level 20 Neutral Good Dragonborn Male
(2 Rogue \ 18 Favored Soul) 
Hit Points: 306
Spell Points: 1857 
BAB: 14\14\19\24
Fortitude: 18
Reflex: 18
Will: 24

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(36 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             10                    17
Dexterity            12                    19
Constitution         14                    21
Intelligence         14                    21
Wisdom               10                    17
Charisma             20                    36

Tomes Used
+5 Tome of Strength used at level 1 \par +5 Tome of Dexterity used at level 1 \par +5 Tome of Constitution used at level 1 \par +5 Tome of Intelligence used at level 1 \par +5 Tome of Wisdom used at level 1 \par +5 Tome of Charisma used at level 1 \par 
                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               4                    10
Bluff                 0                    15
Concentration         0                     8
Diplomacy             0                    15
Disable Device        5                    34
Haggle                0                    15
Heal                  0                    13
Hide                  0                     6
Intimidate            0                    16
Jump                  4                     9
Listen                0                    11
Move Silently         4                    10
Open Lock             4                    13
Perform               n/a                  n/a
Repair                1                    11
Search                5                    37
Spellcraft            0                    30
Spot                  4                    15
Swim                  4                     9
Tumble                4                    10
Use Magic Device      5                    30

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Move Silently (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Swim (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Force of Personality
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Artificer
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Barbarian
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Bard
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Cleric
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Cleric
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Cleric
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Druid
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Favored Soul
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Fighter
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Monk
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Paladin
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Ranger
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Rogue
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Sorcerer
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Sorcerer
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Sorcerer
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Warlock
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Wizard
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Wizard
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Wizard


Level 2 (Favored Soul)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+3)
Feat: (Deity) Follower of Olladra


Level 3 (Favored Soul)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+3)
Feat: (Selected) Completionist
Feat: (Favored Soul Bonus) Grace of Battle


Level 4 (Favored Soul)
Skill: Heal (+2)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 5 (Favored Soul)
Skill: Heal (+2)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 6 (Favored Soul)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Favored Soul Bonus) Energy Absorption: Acid
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell


Level 7 (Rogue)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Search (+5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+3)


Level 8 (Favored Soul)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+2)


Level 9 (Favored Soul)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Favored Soul Bonus) Energy Absorption: Fire
Feat: (Selected) Past Life: Arcane Initiate


Level 10 (Favored Soul)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 11 (Favored Soul)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 12 (Favored Soul)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell
Feat: (Favored Soul Bonus) Stout of Heart


Level 13 (Favored Soul)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 14 (Favored Soul)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 15 (Favored Soul)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Heighten Spell


Level 16 (Favored Soul)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 17 (Favored Soul)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Favored Soul Bonus) Purity of Spirit


Level 18 (Favored Soul)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell


Level 19 (Favored Soul)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)


Level 20 (Favored Soul)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Enhancement: Dragonborn - Hardy (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Dragonborn - Charisma (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Dragonborn - Hardy (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Dragonborn - Charisma (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Dragonborn - Red Dragon Breath (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Dragonborn - Arcanum (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Dragonborn - Arcanum (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Dragonborn - Arcanum (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Dragonborn - Draconic Haritage Red (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Dragonborn - Draconic Haritage Red (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Dragonborn - Draconic Haritage Red (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Dragonborn - Power in Breath (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Dragonborn - Power in Breath (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Dragonborn - Power in Breath (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Dragonborn - Draconic Knowledge Red (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Dragonborn - True Power (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Dragonborn - True Power (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Dragonborn - True Power (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Dragonborn - Relentless Breath (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Font of Power (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Shield of Condemnation (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Aura of Menace (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Summon Archon (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Vengeful Magic (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Scourge (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Scourge (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Scourge (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Smiting (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Inquisition (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Just Reward (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Just Reward (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Just Reward (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Smiting (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Smiting (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Spell Penetration (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Charisma (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Smiting (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Intense Faith (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Intense Faith (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Intense Faith (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Charisma (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Evocation Focus (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Zealous Faith (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Zealous Faith (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Zealous Faith (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Smite Foe (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Resilience of Battle (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Sacred Touch (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Awareness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Awareness (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Awareness (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Wall of Steel (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Wall of Steel (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Wall of Steel (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Arbalester (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Mechanics (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Mechanics (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Mechanics (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Awareness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Awareness (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Awareness (Rank 3)

[C-Dog]

T I did mention I have +5 stat tomes for all stats.. so 14 starting Int -> 19...

Ah, so you did, buried half-way down page 1 - only re-read the OP before those skill comparisons.

That helps. It doesn't get you full ranks in UMD (which you really do want), but it helps.

Not sure if a mediocre starting Dex is worth slighting UMD - maybe split the diff, for a starting Int of 16? Also, agree w/ some of the above observations, strongly doubt Evasion will have much impact if you can't make the supporting stat a serious one. (Abandoning Evasion for all the benefits of Arti 2 could be a winner. Consider before choosing.)

I think I have +4 on the search/disable skills from tomes, and +5 tomes for all the stats.

+4 to S/DD = 4 levels @ +1 rank each, so that helps. You could also take something like Skill Focus:Search, and then swap it out (free via Hall of the Mark quest) after you take your 2nd Rogue Level and the Int Tome has kicked in.

[aGarde]

I started that build out.. will post how it goes. It's definitely going to be rough going in the lower levels.. and not due to trapping issues!

[C-Dog]

Remember that Search is (arguably) more important than Disable - you have to find the box first, and you can't re-roll Search. Once you find the box, you might be taking your chances w/ a sub-optimal Disable, but at least you can try.

GL!
o/

[Matuse]

But search can be augmented with Find Traps.

[C-Dog]

On this build, good point!

[aGarde]

One last question : Heighten or Empower Healing?

Given how people are into self-healing now, is it worth taking EH over Heighten? Spells like cometfall, destruction, g.Command, slay living would benefit from Heighten, although I don't really have many other spell that will.

[Brightheart245]

One last question : Heighten or Empower Healing?

Given how people are into self-healing now, is it worth taking EH over Heighten? Spells like cometfall, destruction, g.Command, slay living would benefit from Heighten, although I don't really have many other spell that will.

Because this is primarily a caster build, I would lean towards Heighten. Maximize and/or Empower Spells will suffice for Cures, and Heal spells are generally strong enough as long as you boost your positive spell power and crits. Complement self healing with boosting heal amp as high as possible too.

~Sera

[aGarde]

Play update : L 13 now.

zero problem getting traps, even if I forget to put trapping gear on.

Low levels, even up to L13, you're melee damage. Don't consider anything but, and it's really weak on the damage. Once I got enough points, I put them into the Dragon Breath to play with that. The 30 second cool down is annoying, but workable, but the targetting is ass poor. Sometimes it shoots out of the corner of your mouth and at a right angle to the target you have right in front of you. I haven't figured that out yet. The BW is subpar on damage, but M/E make it ok.

Sound burst for stunning, G.command to make stuff fall down helps. I use a L8 paralyzing staff (from ToEE) as well. Does just fine on elite, but can't solo reaper at low levels. I expect the same low melee damage, but ok CC up to L20. I'll update what epics are like as the spell damage via ED will kick in.

[Enoach]

Also keep in mind with Rogue skills (Disable, Open Locks, Search and Spot) that a lions share of this comes from gear and buffs.

As a note maxing these skills does lessen the burden on gear/buffs and you should shoot for a decent investment but if you can gear/buff to maximum potential you can actually get away with lower skill investment.

Skills like UMD can open up options that can boost your skills. I gather Wild Instincts for spot and you can grab Tensor's (with high enough umd) for boosts to dexterity.

One trick is getting past the gear switching.

---
Another thing to consider when adding evasion into your character is to also consider if you will have a "good enough" reflex save to take advantage. Evasion is only helpful if you make the save.

So yes it can work, I do recommend grabbing a planner to help with the planning especially the planning of your 2nd Rogue Level.

[Jetrule]

It is doable on a drow or human with tomes I suppose. I would rather go 2 cleric fire domain to get light and fire spell power the same so I could benefit from a lgs fire power weapon or a burn scar sash though. Getting traps is nice but blowing things up easier is nicer

[aGarde]

I haven't had too many issues making reflex saves. I have failed now and again in traps, but most of the time I'm making the saves and taking no damage.

[aGarde]

L25 - biggest frustration is working up the off destiny. I can't break spell pen checks, which is very frustrating. Once I get past this off destiny and can actually run my real destiny, we'll see how it goes, but this build should not be used to work up off destinies!! ahaha.. unless you wanna run EN dailies forever, which is about the only thing it can do w/o being carried.

The spell pen issue is really big tho, and I'm not wondering if I should have taken spell pen instead of force of personality &/or Heighten.

[aGarde]

It's a good idea to get your caster heroic PLs done first before taking a DC- or Spell Pen-dependent caster into epics, particularly if you need to level your off-EDs. I.e., wiz PL x3 for +6 Spell Pen, sorc PL x3 for +3 Evocation DCs, etc.

Whether you have the time and patience to invest so much effort into the TR Train is what separates the Real Players from the Filthy Casuals, of course.

already did that.. 3 wiz, 3 sorc, 3 cleric, 1 fvs past life already.. this is my 2nd fvs life. 1 of all the lives.. For spell pen I'm running at :
18 caster levels
7 past lives
6 equipment
4 enhancements for a total of about +35.

My memory says I have never stuck a destruction on EE von3. The spell pen fails every single time. Interestingly enough, I was able to destruct/slay living (consistently) on R1, and I have a +2 or 3 bonus in the reaper tree for Spell Pen.

You can see the feats I took, completionist, wiz past life (+1 dc for all spells), force of personality, quicken, max, empower, heighten.

In my "main" destiny (Angel) I end up with a bunch of SLAs for healing and damage, that get max/emp/intensify.. That tree would give me another +3 spell pen as well, but, I'm in an off destiny. Still, I doubt +3 would make much difference if I'm failing near 100% of the time.

[aGarde]

Sitting at 29 now. my fire/light sp is 818/616, crit chance 53/39, in Angel destiny. Sound burst dc is 83, destruction is 76. The destruction seems low and doesn't really stick often in ee ravenloft content. The SLA sound burst is sitting at 72 dc.. which is sad, but it's not much on spell point cost, but it doesn't really stun anything either.

Not sure what implosion dc is, it doesn't display but it's probably the same as sound burst (both evocation).

All the above is sitting on the ship, with just my equipment on. Some things get boosts in quests from potions and all from spell power potions and such, but DCs aren't part of those boosts. I do have the beacon of magic set on which gives me +2 to dcs, and my CHA is at 76. I may ditch the SLA sound burst and try to grab something better as it just doesn't stick except on lower epic levels.

Question : are there other ways to boost the DCs? I have heighten/embolden already, and as much as I can get on my equipment (using Nightmothers scepter).

Trapping : haven't had any issues yet, but haven't trapped ee ravenloft as my groups always included a rogue. My reflex save is 65, which is probably low, but I can't get the 19 dex item to fit .. I lose spell power or something else..

[xenon211]

I know the OP is 29 or 30 or even tr'd by now, but had to add 2 cents for those in the rTR grind.

If you have the gear and PLs, no need to do any more than the initial 4 pts from a lv1 splash in order to do 95% of heroic trapping. I guess I can understand it for epics, undergeared situations, and lack of PLs. Just had to mention it though since if you have those things, that's a LOT of skill points that can used elsewhere, most esp if they are cross-class.

[C-Dog]

IIf you have the gear and PLs, no need to do any more than the initial 4 pts from a lv1 splash in order to do 95% of heroic trapping.

Um... wrong.

You can Pick Locks w/ the original 4 ranks, but Search/DD? Not a chance.

Search/DD want at least (and usually more than) +1/level increase. 3 Arti PL's add +3, and... yeah, that'll get you to about Level 10, at the outside.

If you aren't keeping max ranks in those skills (or an equivalent), you're just not going to cut it.