Update 32 on Lamannia: Cannith Crafting Preview

[maddong]

I think the biggest problem is that to get good random loot 90% of the time there is no 3rd slot. Once you get the 3rd slot you have to have the dice add up to get a useful triple combination.

Looking at 2 slot CC items I would have no problem with them. I can get the same thing spending the time on the auction house over a period of days (depending on how many people are playing).

Crafting specific 3 slot items which have 2 augment slots makes astronomically rare drops that the RNG has never even created with people running loot gems during bonus events....

Solution, add 2 new 3rd slot recipes:

Epic Mark of House Cannith Slot: Adds the 3rd slot to an item that has been made level 21-30 (rare trade-able drop in level 21-30 chests)

Legendary Mark of House Cannith Slot: Adds the 3rd slot to an item that has been made level 31-34 (rare trade-able drop in level 31-40 chests)

Mark of House Cannith (purchased by from favor store or found): Adds the 3rd slot to an item that has been made level 1-20

People can still make level 1-20 twink items easily like the old system but to make level 21+ ultra rare items it will be significantly harder....

As it is, I will be a level 250 crafter in the new system and should be able to make some ultra BS equipment (more after a 15 minute grind with an xp pot). I think it will kill the end game 36-40 chest loot desirability unless we make that 3rd effect harder to get.

[SisAmethyst]

So, wait. Let me get this straight. You'd rather have 3d6 on JUST CRITS, than 3d6 on all hits? I'm sorry, what? The rest of your post has its valid points, but this complaint is just confusing me.

First of all I was trying to just stating a fact of what we will craft then and what was possible to craft before, without actually trying to complain or whine.

But to the point. Thundering is more a burst effect which itself had a baseprice modifier of +1 and as such could be crafted as low as lvl 1. The sonic shard on the other hand is a scaled base damage effect, which depends indeed on the level of the crafted item, so at level 5 it is actually 2d6 and at lvl 3 it is 1d6. Unfortunately Thundering doesn't scale that way. So to be fair we would actually need to compare 1d8 on crit vs. 1d6 on each hit. Depening on the character and content I rather go for a higher crit then lower base damage.

Indeed just putting thundering on the item would be a bit underwhelming, but if there is any complaint in my text then it would probably be that I think the power creep and dumping down of effects° brought with the random loot was a bad thing. However that ship has already been sailed. So do I prefer 3d6 only on crit over 3d6 everytime? Hell no, the more damage I can ditch out the better! But do I think the power creep introduced was good? No, not at all. Not to mention that I find it sad that the game more and more loose it's identity with D&D. However that topic has zero to do with this crafting update.

Apart and independent of that, I would actually like to be able to craft burst effects (like Holy Burst) that would do higher crit damage opposed to the comparable base effect (e.g. Holy), but I can see that those are difficult to code in the new system. Still sad that they are gone.

Additionally I would be fine if the overall power would be a tidbit lower if the flexibility is high, having the balance between crafted and random loot the convenience of crafting something exactly as you need it with a tidbit lower power to fill out a certain slot, till you maybe one day either find a named or lucky random to replace it.

°in the sence of activating auto attack and get a coffee instead of trying to bring the mob in crit. mode, as well as to making everyhting flat out +x so that nobody need to think anymore what 1d6+4 actually mean

[SisAmethyst]

...
The biggest disappointment is the amount of collectible required... as I posted earlier...

The high costs are hurting those with alts.
The high cost are hurting those new to the game.
The high cost are hurting those new to crafting.

5 -->1
15-->3

Divide by 5 at least for Bound Items.

Will the drop rates of collectibles be adjusted?

slarden indirectly already answered to this point. As the items will be BtA you only may need to craft them a limited amount of time, assuming you share certain gear via bank, so at least the alts shouldn't be the issue. Additionally I had the impression that at least leveling in the new system is a lot faster, even though I agree that for the most interesting shards you need a bunch of collectibles, especially new ones that non of us yet has.

[Propane]

BTAcount is better than BTC... it will add to maintenance time shuffling stuff around... That is a good change, closes the gap some- it will still take for ever to "gear up"...

Crafting for others will be more limited - no more freebees - bring your mats because I won't have enough to share...

[LrdSlvrhnd]

I am excited to have a chance to make my old standby Metalline of Vampirism weapons - (live version has been bugged for quite some time).
I don't see either of these available currently on Lamannia...

WAI or bugged or WIP?

WIP... only scaling effects (stats, dodge, striding, damage effects, etc.) are currently in. Metalline is static, and I'm guessing Vampirism is also static (though if that was made to scale with level, wow!)

[Aletys]

My concern with collectables are that the cost is most definitely too high. There seems to be no sense in how collectables have been chosen for particular shards, and whether it's a 5 or 15 quantity requirement. It frankly looks as if they were chosen completely at random, without anyone bothering to check how scarce the drops actually are.

I have been playing extensively for 4 years, and in many cases have less than 100 of the collectables required for the new CC. In at least one case (silver flame hymnals, required to make a striding shard) I have only 51 total. This is true of both the 5 & 15 quantity collectibles required for even low level items.

For the quantity 15 required shards, it will take only 6 shards to deplete my current stock of most of those collectables. Therefore, where before I made much of my low level toons gear, I probably will stick to loot gen until I'm in epics. Even then I'll probably only craft high level items I know can be used by multiple toons, and only very rarely. When I have only 6 shards worth after 4 years, I'm probably just going to stop crafting.

Further, it appears that the new insightful shards all require 5 purified eberron dragonshard fragments. After 4 years of collecting I have a total of 141 of them, so again, I will think long and hard before I use them. In addition, many of the insightful shards also require the new collectables, so it'll be a while before I could even make any of those at all.

[Edited out to remove non-scaling effects. I had missed the posts where it was stated this round on Lamannia only has scaling effectsl

I did see striding, but not speed, which seems silly. However, I cannot see what level of striding can be crafted, as it makes only Striding +0 items. [It's a display error. A level 11 item gives 16% striding, which is ridiculously low. I tested on a higher level toon & checked the effects log]

As presently shown on Lamannia, I see very little use for the new CC. I don't have the mats (collectables) to do any significant amount of crafting. And, yes, I am maxed out on all crafting levels with the current CC system. At least for bound shards the no. of collectibles really needs to be reduced.

[Rykka]

The devs must have considered that because the collectible ingredient cost is really really high. If I look at my 100+ life supply of collectibles I can make several items but need to ration or I will run out quickly. Some ingredients are even more scarce because until about a year ago I was constantly adding +1 saves or +1 damage or +1 ac to all my characters with the stone of change. I am not sure why I stopped but I am glad I did lol.

I will make a few leveling items, but it won't be like the old system where my characters have loads of crafted gear for leveling. Also, those extra slots and perfect gear is needed more at end game where you have to fit in LGS and named items. For leveling it's not as important so a mix of random + crafted is fine.

I'd agree with this sentiment. I've got what I thought was a sizable hoard of of collectables, but it's going to go fast with the new system. The items are BTA so I don't need a million items, but I won't be wasting any collectables crafting twink gear for TRs.

[slarden]

My concern with collectables are that the cost is most definitely too high. There seems to be no sense in how collectables have been chosen for particular shards, and whether it's a 5 or 15 quantity requirement. It frankly looks as if they were chosen completely at random, without anyone bothering to check how scarce the drops actually are.

I have been playing extensively for 4 years, and in many cases have less than 100 of the collectables required for the new CC. In at least one case (silver flame hymnals, required to make a striding shard) I have only 51 total. This is true of both the 5 & 15 quantity collectibles required for even low level items.

I spent some time looking at the cost and comparing my quantities. The devs stated that the bta crafting and leveling is intentionally easier than the unbound leveling and crafting. They didn't state the reasons but I am sure it's so the market for random loot doesn't get destroyed, but it also makes the value of collectibles much higher which is a nice thing. I picked up 9 fragrant drowshood for 140,000 plat on the plat AH. I doubt I will be able to do that when U32 hits.

As for recipes, I spent most of my time on bta crafting because I don't have enough mats for unbound crafting and will revisit that at a future time. Here is what I noticed with bta crafting:

- The 15-cost collectible is always the common collectible in sets of 3. The 5-cost collectible is always the uncommon collectible in the set. For bound to account crafting the devs stated none of the rare collectibles are used. I thought they were wrong but after some checking confirmed that was true. Some uncommon collectibles are scarce - most notably fragrant drowshood and silver flame hymnal because they are used in stone of change recipes.

Purified Eberron Dragonshards are only used on the bonus 3rd item which is very rare on random loot so the extra cost does make sense, although obviously we have to be careful with our use of purified ebrerron dragonshards.

I checked my mats and I have at least 300 of each common and at least 100 of each uncommon EXCEPT fragrant drowshood and silver flame hymnal. I am sure I would have over 100 of those if I didn't buff so many of items with stone of change recipes.

It would be nice if just those 2 are added to the high level quests along with the new collectibles due to the relative scarcity, but if not I ran through tangleroot gorge up to the quest where the objective is to get the stronghold key (stopped there as that one adds an extra mushroom and all doors open)

In 10 minutes I got 6 fragrant drowshood and 1 silver flame hymnal - the quest has 2 mushroom if you go right at the entrance instead of left. 1 backpack (or something like that) where the named spider opt is in an earlier quest. 1 bookshelf in the first hall with hobgoblins (can have silver flame hymnal), a cabinet in the throne room (can drop lightning split soarwood and common/uncommon versions) and 4 mushrooms in the cave area including the 2 near the shrine. There might be an easier place to get silver flame hymnals and I am sure the community will share this type of info as it's suddenly important.

When I first saw purified eberron dragonshard on the recipe list I did a long sigh because of how rare they are and how rare tomes are, but then I saw they added a few new trade-ins:

1) 1 token of the twelve for 1 purified eberron dragonshard
2) 1 small eberron dragonshard fragment for 1 purified eberron dragonshard ( I have 60 in the bank)
3) 1 medium eberron dragonshard fragment for 2 purified eberron dragonshard (I will still use those only for sp trinkets)
4) 1 large eberron dragonshard fragment for 3 purified eberron dragonshard (8 in my bank)
5) AS for purified eberron dragonshard - can't remember amount (15 maybe for 1 or better value to buy multiples) there were 2 options - you can sell things on the ASAH and earn a little.

So based on these plus the 1st favor tome I can easily earn 40 purified eberron dragonshards per life and can make over 300 right now with what I have in my bank (including leaving several tokens of the twelve for future TR).

Whether you agree or disagree with some of the costs, one thing is for sure, the devs put ALOT of thought into this system and considered costs, market impact and even non-crafters when putting all this together.

The fact that crafters think the system is too costly and non-crafters think it's too OP makes me think the devs hit a reasonable balance although I think they should consider lowering collectible costs to 4/12 or 3/9 for bta crafting only and PED from 5 to 4 or 3. I am ok with the cost, but I would like to see the system work for casual players as well.

I think it's a bit pricy for someone that only plays maybe 6-10 hours per week.

[GeoffWatson]

It is a known bug that the Devs are already aware of so will probably be fixed before the update hits live.

Stoner81.

There's been plenty of bugs in previous updates that the Devs knew about but didn't fix.

[RD2play]

<snip>

1) 1 token of the twelve for 1 purified eberron dragonshard
2) 1 small eberron dragonshard fragment for 1 purified eberron dragonshard ( I have 60 in the bank)
3) 1 medium eberron dragonshard fragment for 2 purified eberron dragonshard (I will still use those only for sp trinkets)
4) 1 large eberron dragonshard fragment for 3 purified eberron dragonshard (8 in my bank)
5) AS for purified eberron dragonshard - can't remember amount (15 maybe for 1 or better value to buy multiples) there were 2 options - you can sell things on the ASAH and earn a little.

Only the token of the 12 and the AS turn-ins are new, trading fragments is already in the current system.

So based on these plus the 1st favor tome I can easily earn 40 purified eberron dragonshards per life and can make over 300 right now with what I have in my bank (including leaving several tokens of the twelve for future TR).

Whether you agree or disagree with some of the costs, one thing is for sure, the devs put ALOT of thought into this system and considered costs, market impact and even non-crafters when putting all this together.

Since PEDS are only used for insightful effects in BTA, and in UNBOUND, doesn't bother me so much. I think this is quite OK!

The fact that crafters think the system is too costly and non-crafters think it's too OP makes me think the devs hit a reasonable balance although I think they should consider lowering collectible costs to 4/12 or 3/9 for bta crafting only and PED from 5 to 4 or 3. I am ok with the cost, but I would like to see the system work for casual players as well.

I think it's a bit pricy for someone that only plays maybe 6-10 hours per week.

Here, Collectible cost is the real issue I have with the proposed system. Again I think for Insightful and UNBOUND they are on the mark. But the cost should be reduced for simple prefix/suffix effects. I mainly use crafting to fill spots in my gear on TR runs, or on alts, when I am missing an effect or 2. And then either breakdown, or disjunct those items once I am done with it. It should be possible to make prefix/suffix items this way but as it stands the cost for this are just to high. Also I like to be able to not have to hold on to every piece of loot I find interesting, rather I sell/decon it and then make it when needed. I do think making 3 effect items should be expensive though! but simple short used 2 effect items should not be this prohibitively costly. If I need a quick Striding Boots a couple of levels till I can use my Named boots, or RGL speed boots a couple levels later it should not cost so much to do so. If I want to make that real sweet 3 effect synergistic Item Yeah it should cost me! Therefor I think the collectible cost for regular prefix/suffix shards should be lowered, the cost for insightful effects could still be high, maybe even a bit higher to compensate.

[ramzes7asit4]

Hm, today I notice next thing:
Gloves (8 min llv): http://i64.tinypic.com/357q8f4.jpg
Trinket (8 min llv): http://i66.tinypic.com/302b3a0.jpg
Trinket (9 min llv): http://i64.tinypic.com/250qfqf.jpg
There are not insight bonus in trinket (and some other item) in level range [1-8], but we can see it in gloves with min lvl 8.

But one day ago, I craft trinkets with insight bonus for level 1 and 5...
Is this bug, or something else?
As I know, its not insight bonus in random loot with min level [1-9].

[slarden]

Only the token of the 12 and the AS turn-ins are new, trading fragments is already in the current system.

Since PEDS are only used for insightful effects in BTA, and in UNBOUND, doesn't bother me so much. I think this is quite OK!


Here, Collectible cost is the real issue I have with the proposed system. Again I think for Insightful and UNBOUND they are on the mark. But the cost should be reduced for simple prefix/suffix effects. I mainly use crafting to fill spots in my gear on TR runs, or on alts, when I am missing an effect or 2. And then either breakdown, or disjunct those items once I am done with it. It should be possible to make prefix/suffix items this way but as it stands the cost for this are just to high. Also I like to be able to not have to hold on to every piece of loot I find interesting, rather I sell/decon it and then make it when needed. I do think making 3 effect items should be expensive though! but simple short used 2 effect items should not be this prohibitively costly. If I need a quick Striding Boots a couple of levels till I can use my Named boots, or RGL speed boots a couple levels later it should not cost so much to do so. If I want to make that real sweet 3 effect synergistic Item Yeah it should cost me! Therefor I think the collectible cost for regular prefix/suffix shards should be lowered, the cost for insightful effects could still be high, maybe even a bit higher to compensate.

Yes you are right, it's ok for the bonus to cost extra. Lowering cost on just prefix and suffix for bta only would be a nice idea for the casual crafters.

[Aletys]

~snip~ Here is what I noticed with bta crafting:

- The 15-cost collectible is always the common collectible in sets of 3. The 5-cost collectible is always the uncommon collectible in the set. For bound to account crafting the devs stated none of the rare collectibles are used. I thought they were wrong but after some checking confirmed that was true. Some uncommon collectibles are scarce - most notably fragrant drowshood and silver flame hymnal because they are used in stone of change recipes.

~snip~

I went through a bunch of shard recipes on the bound shard machine, and found many cases where this is not the case, and where extremely rare collectibles are used on shards that are frankly not worth that level of collectible.

For example:

• Strength - Requires 15 Burned Spore Pods & 5 Amulets of the Six (I have 183 & 756 respectively, so it's reversed)
• Constitution - 15 Runic Parchments & 5 Glass Phials (I have 167 & 122 & would consider both relatively rare)
• Intelligence - 15 Ceraminc Bowls & 5 House-Sealed Letters (I have 432 & 51, and consider the latter very rare)
• Repair Lore Shard uses 15 Bruised Spore Pods & 5 Amulets of the Six (I have 183 & 756, so again it's reversed)
• Striding - uses 15 Lodestones & 5 Silver Flame Hymnals (I have 434 & 51)
• With the insightful shards, sometimes the 15x collectible is rare or relatively rare, sometimes it's the 5x collectable, and sometimes it's both (though in some cases I have more of the 5x than of the 15x)

I couldn't find them today, but yesterday when I was going thru the various recipes, I had many examples where a rare collectible was used on the 15-cost slot. I have never used the Stone of Change, and I very rarely trade in collectibles (usually only when both my Huge bags overflow on a particular collectible), so it's not the case where I have used some of the rarer collectibles for other things.

In the case of the striding shard, there is no way that is worth a rare ingredient of any kind, especially considering it's not a speed item.

[slarden]

I went through a bunch of shard recipes on the bound shard machine, and found many cases where this is not the case, and where extremely rare collectibles are used on shards that are frankly not worth that level of collectible.

For example:

• Strength - Requires 15 Burned Spore Pods & 5 Amulets of the Six (I have 183 & 756 respectively, so it's reversed)
• Constitution - 15 Runic Parchments & 5 Glass Phials (I have 167 & 122 & would consider both relatively rare)
• Intelligence - 15 Ceraminc Bowls & 5 House-Sealed Letters (I have 432 & 51, and consider the latter very rare)
• Repair Lore Shard uses 15 Bruised Spore Pods & 5 Amulets of the Six (I have 183 & 756, so again it's reversed)
• Striding - uses 15 Lodestones & 5 Silver Flame Hymnals (I have 434 & 51)
• With the insightful shards, sometimes the 15x collectible is rare or relatively rare, sometimes it's the 5x collectable, and sometimes it's both (though in some cases I have more of the 5x than of the 15x)

I couldn't find them today, but yesterday when I was going thru the various recipes, I had many examples where a rare collectible was used on the 15-cost slot. I have never used the Stone of Change, and I very rarely trade in collectibles (usually only when both my Huge bags overflow on a particular collectible), so it's not the case where I have used some of the rarer collectibles for other things.

In the case of the striding shard, there is no way that is worth a rare ingredient of any kind, especially considering it's not a speed item.

Rarity has to do with chance of picking up the collectible when you click not individual quantity. For example amulet of the six is the uncommon the common is amulet of the lost empire and the rare is amulet of the archbishop.

Bruised spore pod is the common. Intact spore pod is the uncommon. Flowering spore pod is the rare for that set. If you look in your bag they are organized by collector and if you compare those quanities it should line up with the exception if you used a lot of a certain collectible or sold it (fragrant drowshood or silver flame hymnal).

What you have can also be heavily influenced by what content you run the most (or farm).

this link might also be helpful, seems the common is on top, followed by uncommon and rare for each set of 3.

http://ddowiki.com/page/Collectable

[Aletys]

I rolled up a level 15 toon so I could test the striding item I made yesterday (with the striding +0 on it), and determined that the "+0" is a display error. However, the amount of striding it gives is not worth the few seconds it took to make & assemble it, let alone the mats it uses.

I made a level 11 striding item. Level 11 is where we've had striding 30% (very old lootgen) and speed 6 (also 30% striding on the old lootgen) for years. When I looked at the effects log after equipping it, it actually gives 16% striding, which is pretty pathetic. With the existing CC system I can make 20% striding items for level 7. If I put I a masterful craftmanship shard on it, I can drop that same 20% striding item to level 5. And the new CC system gives only 16% striding at level 11?

To make things even worse, it requires the use of a less common collectible (15 Lodestones) & a very rare collectible (5 Silver Flame Hymnals) (I have 434 & 51 respectively). For something that is inferior to speed items of the same level, it should frankly use only very common & easily obtained collectibles in both slots.

This needs to be completely revamped.

[Aletys]

Rarity has to do with chance of picking up the collectible when you click not individual quantity. For example amulet of the six is the uncommon the common is amulet of the lost empire and the rare is amulet of the archbishop.

Bruised spore pod is the common. Intact spore pod is the uncommon. Flowering spore pod is the rare for that set. If you look in your bag they are organized by collector and if you compare those quanities it should line up with the exception if you used a lot of a certain collectible or sold it (fragrant drowshood or silver flame hymnal).

What you have can also be heavily influenced by what content you run the most (or farm).

this link might also be helpful, seems the common is on top, followed by uncommon and rare for each set of 3.

http://ddowiki.com/page/Collectable

I can only speak for my personal experience over the last four years playing DDO quite a lot (I am not a casual player). I run nearly all of the heroic content & generally all the epic content on most of my toons each life (on some toons I run all the heroic content as well), and I typically run the heroic content only once each life.

All the collectibles get transferred to my crafter, and I rarely trade the collectibles in, except when my bags overflow on an particular collectible. I don't trade in collectibles unless I have over 1000. I also have never used the stone of change. About the only time my collectibles get used is when I craft something, and then I'm pretty sparing when it comes to collectibles that I don't have many hundreds of. So I suspect I have a pretty representative sample of what actually drops.

The Silver Flame Hymnal is only used for the Stone of Change rituals, & I've never even done one. I run 2 of the 3 quests it drops in every single life (and sometimes all 3), and I've farmed Tangleroots multiple times to get the DW goggles. My mules all run Lair of Summoning for the house K favor, so I have extra runs of that. The fact that I've never expended a single one & have only got 51 tells me that the drop rate is very, very low. Whether that is what it's supposed to be is a different question.

[slarden]

I can only speak for my personal experience over the last four years playing DDO quite a lot (I am not a casual player). I run nearly all of the heroic content & generally all the epic content on most of my toons each life (on some toons I run all the heroic content as well), and I typically run the heroic content only once each life.

All the collectibles get transferred to my crafter, and I rarely trade the collectibles in, except when my bags overflow on an particular collectible. I don't trade in collectibles unless I have over 1000. I also have never used the stone of change. About the only time my collectibles get used is when I craft something, and then I'm pretty sparing when it comes to collectibles that I don't have many hundreds of. So I suspect I have a pretty representative sample of what actually drops.

The Silver Flame Hymnal is only used for the Stone of Change rituals, & I've never even done one. I run 2 of the 3 quests it drops in every single life (and sometimes all 3), and I've farmed Tangleroots multiple times to get the DW goggles. My mules all run Lair of Summoning for the house K favor, so I have extra runs of that. The fact that I've never expended a single one & have only got 51 tells me that the drop rate is very, very low. Whether that is what it's supposed to be is a different question.

I can't speak to your individual quantities which vary significantly from mine. I only know I have 100+ of every common and 300+ of every common except silver flame hymnal and fragrant drowshood which is easy to explain in my case- i used those on stone of change rituals. I do have to ration my crafting for sure or I will run out quickly.

[Feralthyrtiaq]

It seems unclear (or I havn't looked enough) at what item level the effects get set at for stats.

Something like ML 1-3 +1 Stat, 4-6, +2 and so forth?

[slarden]

It seems unclear (or I havn't looked enough) at what item level the effects get set at for stats.

Something like ML 1-3 +1 Stat, 4-6, +2 and so forth?

I find this google doc very helpful

Join to edit doc (power by level in new CC): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

[Cordovan]

Join to edit doc (power by level in new CC): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

Quite nice work there, want to make sure others see it.