Reinvigorating level 20 Old Endgame: New Legendary Crafting with S/S/S & Raid Tokens

[JOTMON]

For me this is a BIG NO. More high grind uber gear just trivializes the rest of the game

Crafting Older Epic items to be comparable to current items is great.

The old S/S/S items used to be the sought after power items. Now most of the items can easily be replaced with the MotU commendation items (Village, Druid, Cleric, PDK, Wizard ones not the CiTW/FoT coms).

There is ALOT of great content that is already made and this thread has a proposal that would make people run more of that older content seems like a win/win.

Well I disagree,
The way I see it, Its the only way to bring on Legendary versions of named items from Epic level gear.
Without Legendary challenge to earn Legendary gear or upgrade tokens, it would be asinine to allow a 25 token upgrade to upgrade level 20 epic gear to level 30 worthy gear, while farming level 20 content on level 30 toons.
but hey I have 800 greater tokens across my toons just sitting around collecting dust.. that's 32 upgraded Epic items for nothing..

[Gljosh]

Well I disagree,
The way I see it, Its the only way to bring on Legendary versions of named items from Epic level gear.
Without Legendary challenge to earn Legendary gear or upgrade tokens, it would be asinine to allow a 25 token upgrade to upgrade level 20 epic gear to level 30 worthy gear, while farming level 20 content on level 30 toons.
but hey I have 800 greater tokens across my toons just sitting around collecting dust.. that's 32 upgraded Epic items for nothing..

I know you want to push the "Mythic" Raid piece and Sentient Weapons, but that would be an insane power creep.

Also, he stated making the items Level 28 and not 30.

Making the current crop of S/S/S items closer in line to other level 20 items makes sense.

Adding a method to use under utilized items (Greater Tokens) to upgrade hard to find items makes sense.

Redesigning multiple quests and adding another MASSIVE crafting system does not make sense at this point in the life of the game.

[slarden]

I think Legendary ADQ and Legendary Chronoscope would be great raids and if they want to keep the shard / seal system that is fine with me.

Legendary ring of spell storing - gimme.

[Gljosh]

I think Legendary ADQ and Legendary Chronoscope would be great raids and if they want to keep the shard / seal system that is fine with me.

Legendary ring of spell storing - gimme.

Legendary Wolf Whistle. ..

Personally VoD or Tod would top those two.

[FuzzyDuck81]

My idea for boosting the old s/s/s gear was to borrow some code from the Chimera gear (which links certain item effects into the presence of dragonmark feats) & make new versions of all the s/s/s items which have a load of enhanced legendary effects that unlock when wielded by a level 30 character, the presence of any Scion feat being the key. That way, it'd encourage people to play the older content more, but without adding any more grind to the game that already exists. Increasing the drop rates of all the parts, or allowing completed versions of the upgraded items to drop would help a lot too.

[Saekee]

Well I disagree,
The way I see it, Its the only way to bring on Legendary versions of named items from Epic level gear.
Without Legendary challenge to earn Legendary gear or upgrade tokens, it would be asinine to allow a 25 token upgrade to upgrade level 20 epic gear to level 30 worthy gear, while farming level 20 content on level 30 toons.
but hey I have 800 greater tokens across my toons just sitting around collecting dust.. that's 32 upgraded Epic items for nothing..

that is a fair objection Jotman. My answer:

My thought is that it will not be as good as tier 3 LGS. It would be stuff that either fills a niche or helps make the gear needed to then be able to run more endgame content. Some of the old gear is just cool (like epic wolf whistle). A level 30 toon should not be farming them--it should be getting better stuff in LShroud etc. Sure, many level 30s would undoubtedly farm them but they are doing that now sometimes anyway for S S S items!

Also, it revitalizes levels 20-25 instead of making them pointless (in terms of endgame--otherwise they are just part of TR grind and hence just do high xp quests). Note that earning an S S S item is grindy in its own way and requires patience, persistence and sometimes teamwork (to pass stuff in chests).

So it is not a easy legendary gearpiece/item--25 raids and tons of runs to get the S S S item is hardly a giveaway.

And: no to just making old raids & quests into Legendary versions. Blahh.

[Saekee]

My idea for boosting the old s/s/s gear was to borrow some code from the Chimera gear (which links certain item effects into the presence of dragonmark feats) & make new versions of all the s/s/s items which have a load of enhanced legendary effects that unlock when wielded by a level 30 character, the presence of any Scion feat being the key. That way, it'd encourage people to play the older content more, but without adding any more grind to the game that already exists. Increasing the drop rates of all the parts, or allowing completed versions of the upgraded items to drop would help a lot too.

that is similar to my proposal but 1) does not require raid tokens & hence does not push the old raids & 2) makes it even easier to craft a legendary S S S item

[Saekee]

For me this is a BIG NO. More high grind uber gear just trivializes the rest of the game

Crafting Older Epic items to be comparable to current items is great.

The old S/S/S items used to be the sought after power items. Now most of the items can easily be replaced with the MotU commendation items (Village, Druid, Cleric, PDK, Wizard ones not the CiTW/FoT coms).

There is ALOT of great content that is already made and this thread has a proposal that would make people run more of that older content seems like a win/win.

thanks Glijosh

[JOTMON]

I know you want to push the "Mythic" Raid piece and Sentient Weapons, but that would be an insane power creep.

Also, he stated making the items Level 28 and not 30.

Making the current crop of S/S/S items closer in line to other level 20 items makes sense.

Adding a method to use under utilized items (Greater Tokens) to upgrade hard to find items makes sense.

Redesigning multiple quests and adding another MASSIVE crafting system does not make sense at this point in the life of the game.

still not seeing viability to giving more powerful higher level named items from low level raids without scaling the raid up to the appropriate level.
~not arguing against revamping currently sucky named items that have been screwed over by the randomgen loot revamps.. they still need to be revamped appropriately to their level..

Would prefer to see ALL the raids changed so that they remain endgame viable at all times..
Perhaps using the level drop down and having runnable raids like the festivals.. then you could run raids at all difficulty levels
Change all the Raids to a token reward that can purchase a variety of level appropriate upgradeable rewards from each raid pack, ..including scaling level named items...
Then you could have raids for level 21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28,29,30,31,32,33,34,35.. (whatever their start point is through to level 35) with improved token drop rates based on your character level and raid challenge level (like the festivals)
something like unique slottable upgradeable augments crafted from ingredients available at each tier of the raid levels.. (like cove gems that drop from different difficulties)
have an option to sell back named items and S/S/S for discounted value of tokens to save on inventory space stacking..

then all the raids can remain viable for all players from level 20 through 30. with scaled difficulty and rewards.
revamped loot from all the raids would rebreathe life into many antiquated raids..

[RobbinB]

bring on the Legendary content .. Legendary Tokens to upgrade the Epic level items.

If I read the op correctly there wasn't any opportunity cost to upgrading the old epic items to legendary. Greater tokens are easily acquired so it's just bam, epic becomes legendary. If the legendary items are weak that's all fine and good (but then what's the point?), but if the legendary upgrades are strong then it's way too easy.

So, yes, creation of "legendary" items needs to have a "cost" that is obtainable by running "legendary" content. Your suggestion makes sense, but I don't really like the 1 per run tokens idea, too easily farmable (I'm assuming based on past loot systems it would be eg. 20 tokens per item). Rather I would suggest that the end chests of legendary quests have an incredibly small opportunity to drop a single legendary token (all that is needed for a single upgrade). When I say rare, I mean super rare, like 1 in 250/750/2000 or less on Elite/Hard/Normal. (As in stare dumb-founded in disbelief when one of those tokens actually falls for anyone in your group.)

Casual unlucky gamer like myself might play for a couple of years and get a single token (hmm...which item should I upgrade..which item...). The lucky 6 hour a day power gamer might get a half-dozen tokens in a year but they would still have to make hard choices about which items they would like to upgrade.

Note: I realize there are individuals on exactly the opposite end of the spectrum re: what they like in terms of "farmable" vs "lucky" pull systems. Could placate the "farmable" crowd by making the system as I suggest but also having a secondary token that you get 1/2/3 of per run on n/h/e. Some ridiculous high number of these (like 1000) could then be combined to create the legendary token. (And then come the dupers....)

[Ballyspringer]

I put something similar to this in one of the cannith crafting posts (fitting in named items on a side rant) as I agree there needs to be more incentive again! The old epic items were awesome, both in flavor and how unique they were.

And I enjoyed how hard it was to get a SSS item back in the day - it was the best stuff and it was the hardest to get - I loved that, some items took months on months (sometimes even longer).

What I was thinking was to create a legendary difficulty of the old ones (so not just make them legendary - but add in a 3rd difficulty option) and then either the end chests give an upgrade token for an item (but again you have to get the right one for the item you want) - or they could drop like scrolls do as you kill stuff in the quests.

Tokens are interesting but as has been said those don't make you go back into the quests again - but adding legendary versions with named legendary upgrade tokens one for each of the SSS items I would love to see. So you still have to grind out the SSS lvl 20 items, and then once you're higher levels do the next challenge of running them on legendary to get the final upgrade piece.

[Saekee]

still not seeing viability to giving more powerful higher level named items from low level raids without scaling the raid up to the appropriate level.
~not arguing against revamping currently sucky named items that have been screwed over by the randomgen loot revamps.. they still need to be revamped appropriately to their level..

Would prefer to see ALL the raids changed so that they remain endgame viable at all times..
Perhaps using the level drop down and having runnable raids like the festivals.. then you could run raids at all difficulty levels
Change all the Raids to a token reward that can purchase a variety of level appropriate upgradeable rewards from each raid pack, ..including scaling level named items...
Then you could have raids for level 21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28,29,30,31,32,33,34,35.. (whatever their start point is through to level 35) with improved token drop rates based on your character level and raid challenge level (like the festivals)
have an option to sell back named items and S/S/S for discounted value of tokens to save on inventory space stacking..

then all the raids can remain viable for all players from level 20 through 30. with scaled difficulty and rewards.
revamped loot from all the raids would rebreathe life into many dead or otherwise useless dysfunctional raids..

they would not be worth grinding for those level ranges--for me it is endgame or TR train; the latter means xp quests ir flavor. Inevitably new content adds incentives over older stuff so things get outdated.
You are prizing legendary gear currently available but which is harder: grinding out all the ingredients for an S S S item along with running old raids for tokens OR grinding out the legendary Vale quests on normal to make a tier 2 LGS item? Neither are so challenging for a capped character.

[Saekee]

bump time? Anyone want a:
Legendary Pharlian Mirror Cloak
Legendary SoS
Legendary (name old S S S item)

[casually]

Good idea! just DON'T increase powercreep further! make them awesome but not gamebreaking awesome. also why not increase their power for lvl 20 and not for any other. why? because it kinda feels weird to enter the same quest at lvl 12, 24 and then again on 30. don't you think it gets braindamaging? i ran spinner of shadows like crazy to get a templars bastion on epic but i havent found the stuff yet and it is already surpassed by powercreeploot...and now i imagine i have to run it again on or until lvl 30 ? meh...

[Saekee]

Good idea! just DON'T increase powercreep further! make them awesome but not gamebreaking awesome. also why not increase their power for lvl 20 and not for any other. why? because it kinda feels weird to enter the same quest at lvl 12, 24 and then again on 30. don't you think it gets braindamaging? i ran spinner of shadows like crazy to get a templars bastion on epic but i havent found the stuff yet and it is already surpassed by powercreeploot...and now i imagine i have to run it again on or until lvl 30 ? meh...

my idea was that you do not run it at 30--you use the raid tokens from raids to upgrade it further. Also, the idea to only buff its level 28 incarnation is to save Dev time.
This shouldn't add to powercreep--it takes a lot of intetesting items and makes them relevent with some grind and a boost to raids.

[casually]

ah i get it now...but what about the people who don't do raids for whatever reason? ...LAG
i still would love to see them powerful for lvl 20 again and view that as a piority. for a normal player it took ages to get the one you wanted...and then they were often already outdated :b it just adds to the things that makes one want to quit the game. i remember how much i wanted that epic darkstorm helmet..then i finally had one and a month later there was more powerful stuff and i did not have the time to farm for items like before.
but i must say the idea to up their lvl and power with the raidtokens sounds nice since it would make them useful in endgame again. from a dev perspective however i think its more interesting for them to create new endgame stuff from new questpacks and such to get people into vip or premiums to buy them..shortsighted view of things on the long run but it feels like thats the plan.

[ThreadNecromancer]

It could even come with a new raid that dropped ingredients from every crafting system instead of vendor trash loot.

Ex. Lordsmarch crafting ingredients in the Lordsmarch section of the raid, Amrath ingredients in the Amrath section of the raid... Thunderforged/Dragontouched/Gianthold ingredients in that section, etc. And make them all optionals. Yes, it'd be a big raid. Think big or go home.

And then the raid itself has its own crafting system for upgrading the items you found ingredients for to Legendary versions, complete with its own ingredients for doing so. This would create an all-encompassing endgame raid that everyone would run for whatever reason.

I'd buy a raid like that the day it came out, even if it was the only quest in the pack.

[Saekee]

It could even come with a new raid that dropped ingredients from every crafting system instead of vendor trash loot.

Ex. Lordsmarch crafting ingredients in the Lordsmarch section of the raid, Amrath ingredients in the Amrath section of the raid... Thunderforged/Dragontouched/Gianthold ingredients in that section, etc. And make them all optionals. Yes, it'd be a big raid. Think big or go home.

And then the raid itself has its own crafting system for upgrading the items you found ingredients for to Legendary versions, complete with its own ingredients for doing so. This would create an all-encompassing endgame raid that everyone would run for whatever reason.

I'd buy a raid like that the day it came out, even if it was the only quest in the pack.

that is a cool idea