U27 Items Official Discussion - Round 2

[the_one_dwarfforged]

since there seems to be communication in this thread again, id like to refer steel to my previous post where i have some concerns about the new boots.

tldr: drop +2 trip, add speed 15.

[Cetus]

If you're talking about adding some relatively small mythic bonuses to higher tiered items i'm not against that. Not differences that corrupt the basic appeal of the item. For example, taking an item that gives a +4 insight stat bonus on elite and giving it a +2 insight bonus on normal would be what i will call 'junkifying' the item.

Agreed - small gains are preferred

Since we were talking about Mark of Death, i'm waiting to see any confirmation that mythic versions of those items exist. Absent mythic versions, i don't really see how you keep normal level players from getting the loot apart from making it simply not available to them.

It's unlikely that MOD has mythic versions, all the loot was essentially handed out to anyone willing to run normals til their 20th's.

What would you do with something like Thunderforged crafting? How would you keep the good items out of the hands of the helots? Would you make something like good phlogs and bad phlogs, and make the phlogs obtained on lesser dfficulties only capable of making second grade loot? Since the upcoming epic Shroud will likely have some sort of crafting system, this is a relevant question.

Pretty simple - add ingredients that only drop on EE which would yield an additional tier of incremental gain to your weapon. I don't know, say it adds .5W or something, or +10 spellpower.

As far as completing endgame raids on elite, i get that you probably run with many high end players, and don't really come across a lot of the average players of this game in your play experience. If you did, you might adjust your view that "anybody can complete epic elite MOD". I will continue to play with my friends until either the game or i dies. Nothing is going to make me abandon them. Especially in a game with no real consequences, i will go down with the ship rather than step on their heads to get out.

I think you misunderstood my suggestion. By no means am I saying that you should abandon your friends. But by the sounds of it, it isn't a full raids group worth of people, is it? If not, then the remaining slots can consist of new like-minded players with who you can tackle EE MOD. From my point of view, it should be fun to get your asses handed to you until you figure out a way to beat something. And when you finally do, to be appropriately rewarded for your efforts feels good. That's how I look at it, anyway.

[Blackheartox]

I dont know if anyone asked, but are we getting 6-7 tomes in this new pack from the raid at least or is that specific only for temple of ee?

[Steve_Howe]

I dont know if anyone asked, but are we getting 6-7 tomes in this new pack from the raid at least or is that specific only for temple of ee?

It was asked here:

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post5655629

You'll have to watch the video for the question.

[Steelstar]

I dont know if anyone asked, but are we getting 6-7 tomes in this new pack from the raid at least or is that specific only for temple of ee?

Yes, 6-7 Tomes will drop in the Raid on Epic Elite, at about the same rarity as Epic Elite TOEE.

[FestusHood]

I think you misunderstood my suggestion. By no means am I saying that you should abandon your friends. But by the sounds of it, it isn't a full raids group worth of people, is it? If not, then the remaining slots can consist of new like-minded players with who you can tackle EE MOD. From my point of view, it should be fun to get your asses handed to you until you figure out a way to beat something. And when you finally do, to be appropriately rewarded for your efforts feels good. That's how I look at it, anyway.

The lack of people is specifically for the MOd raid. We've had much more success filling for the Thunderhome raids, even having to turn people away. To show how casual some of our people are, one of the main hindrances to filling the MOD raid is flagging. Yes, many of our people have not completed that chain even a single time. Thunderholme raids can be flagged for in minutes, even after the raid party has been set up.

For our bunch, doing the summit raid on normal is an appropriate difficulty. We may be able to step it up to hard, but i would estimate our chance of completion to be very low on that difficulty. Elite is out of the question. That would cross the line from challenge to futility for our group.

[FestusHood]

I had an idea for a loot effect that i don't think i have seen mentioned before. Most appropriate for boots.

Hamstring immunity.

A regenerating restoration clicky might be nice sometime too.

[Cetus]

The lack of people is specifically for the MOd raid. We've had much more success filling for the Thunderhome raids, even having to turn people away. To show how casual some of our people are, one of the main hindrances to filling the MOD raid is flagging. Yes, many of our people have not completed that chain even a single time. Thunderholme raids can be flagged for in minutes, even after the raid party has been set up.

For our bunch, doing the summit raid on normal is an appropriate difficulty. We may be able to step it up to hard, but i would estimate our chance of completion to be very low on that difficulty. Elite is out of the question. That would cross the line from challenge to futility for our group.

I see. Well, then you guys are simply at the EN/EH level. There's nothing wrong with that, this is why there's a difficulty spectrum.

But with the loot, wouldn't you think it's reasonable that for your skill level, there are some items out there that are simply beyond your reach? Unless you figure out a way to tackle that EE peaks or that EE MOD flagging chain, of course. The EE setting is simply a different world out there for you guys, you shouldn't be affected at all by the existence of gear that is appropriate to those who manage to overcome it.

To put it another way, given that you just said "elite is out of the question", do you still feel like you should have the same exact gear as those who do beat it? Or should you have gear that is of lower calibre but still an upgrade for your level of play?

[FestusHood]

I see. Well, then you guys are simply at the EN/EH level. There's nothing wrong with that, this is why there's a difficulty spectrum.

But with the loot, wouldn't you think it's reasonable that for your skill level, there are some items out there that are simply beyond your reach? Unless you figure out a way to tackle that EE peaks or that EE MOD flagging chain, of course. The EE setting is simply a different world out there for you guys, you shouldn't be affected at all by the existence of gear that is appropriate to those who manage to overcome it.

To put it another way, given that you just said "elite is out of the question", do you still feel like you should have the same exact gear as those who do beat it? Or should you have gear that is of lower calibre but still an upgrade for your level of play?

Those same 5 or 6 people that we can gather to give mod a go are perfectly capable of completing most quests on epic elite. The level 30 raids are much more difficult.

Since we were specifically discussing mod, then if the entire loot design was different, including subtly better mythic versions, then yes i would be fine with that. Since they were not designed that way, it will have to be the way it is.

You must differentiate between people who are capable of running elite choosing to run normal.becuase they are what? Lazy? They are different from people who simply can't complete them on higher difficulties regardless of effort. In an earlier post you said that you yourself had gained most of your mod gear by running on epic normal.

[pjw]

On the Raid gloves: Remove spellcraft 20 and Quality spell focus, add 'Arcane Lore XV'.

[vengfarga]

Left this far too late now as a suggestion (curse you real life!) but it woulda been a nice nod to the original set bonuses to have a clickie tied to each capstone, maybe as trinkets or whatever.
Examples could be 3 x 30secs of heal amp boost for ravager, 1 x restore action boosts for kensai, 3 x gtr invis for assassin and so on.
They wouldn't need to be game changingly powerful, just fun to have and a little reward for going pure.
It would also be loot that people could/would gladly trade around their pug to others who can use it.

Just a thought.

[Gralhota]

A more detailed list of changes, after some work today:

- New item effects should show up correctly in the Effects Channel now.
- All of the new weapons should have Flametouched Iron effects properly now (except the Longsword, which is Cold Iron). This includes the Material Type and the proper damage bypassing (which is missing in the current Lamannia).
- Heroic Rune Arm should go up to Charge Tier 5 now (It was only going up to 4 before).
- The Epic version shouldn't bug out when trying to fire the max charge anymore
- Improved durability and hardness on the Quarterstaff
- Fixed Spell Pen VI, which was only giving the Tier 5 spell pen.
- The Epic shuriken now gives Deadly XI instead of IX (hooray for Roman Numerals).

Any fix for Belt of Braided Beards ?

[Cetus]

Those same 5 or 6 people that we can gather to give mod a go are perfectly capable of completing most quests on epic elite. The level 30 raids are much more difficult.

Since we were specifically discussing mod, then if the entire loot design was different, including subtly better mythic versions, then yes i would be fine with that. Since they were not designed that way, it will have to be the way it is.

You must differentiate between people who are capable of running elite choosing to run normal.becuase they are what? Lazy? They are different from people who simply can't complete them on higher difficulties regardless of effort. In an earlier post you said that you yourself had gained most of your mod gear by running on epic normal.

I'm failing to see the meaning of this post. It doesn't matter why a run is being run on a difficulty below EE. What matters is that if you want the EE gear, you have to at some point get EE done. That's the suggestion. Otherwise, the game won't distinguish between the two groups of people you mentioned - any anybody and their mother can have the best gear in the game without so much as breaking a sweat.

[Stinging_Bee]

Countenance cloak
Any chance we can have an exceptional seeker 5 instead of the vertigo or the green slot?
Id love to wear a charisma 12 item on a paladin and get an item with exceptional seeker and charisma would be perfect imho.
Would be cool to see the many hooked Greaves having ghostly instead of vertigo probably.

[Lauf]

Steelstar, slightly off topic but will you be updating the lorsmarch chains' items anytime soon?
they've been passed over in every update.

[kmoustakas]

I see. Well, then you guys are simply at the EN/EH level. There's nothing wrong with that, this is why there's a difficulty spectrum.

But with the loot, wouldn't you think it's reasonable that for your skill level, there are some items out there that are simply beyond your reach? Unless you figure out a way to tackle that EE peaks or that EE MOD flagging chain, of course. The EE setting is simply a different world out there for you guys, you shouldn't be affected at all by the existence of gear that is appropriate to those who manage to overcome it.

To put it another way, given that you just said "elite is out of the question", do you still feel like you should have the same exact gear as those who do beat it? Or should you have gear that is of lower calibre but still an upgrade for your level of play?

We need to implement an achievement section in-game so as to draw away gear from being an achievement rather than the means to achievements. There have been many ideas about this in other sections of the forums.

[Eryhn]

The cloak it will fit perfectly my DC warlock for spell pen & radiance lore. Hope they leave it as it is.

It would also work nice for flavor build exalted caster bard. can put the radiance on tier 1 TF and thus frees the ring slot. can we not kill one of the few items thats not solely power creep but offers some diversity, too?!

don't touch that /signed

I see. Well, then you guys are simply at the EN/EH level. There's nothing wrong with that, this is why there's a difficulty spectrum.

But with the loot, wouldn't you think it's reasonable that for your skill level, there are some items out there that are simply beyond your reach? Unless you figure out a way to tackle that EE peaks or that EE MOD flagging chain, of course. The EE setting is simply a different world out there for you guys, you shouldn't be affected at all by the existence of gear that is appropriate to those who manage to overcome it.

To put it another way, given that you just said "elite is out of the question", do you still feel like you should have the same exact gear as those who do beat it? Or should you have gear that is of lower calibre but still an upgrade for your level of play?

there is a couple of things with your perspective that would make things much harder for casuals if they were followed by the devs.

first of all, the availability of good epic items from e-norm too means that casual players get some help with getting in the position to run these high level raids in the first place(On e-norm, mind!). Sadly, your fixiation on your own elitist views seems to make you incapable of conceiving such, which becomes best apparent in your "if I couldnt run something succesfully I wouldnt feel entitled to that loot, too" statement - thats really easy to say on a triple completionist but a nice example of cynicism for people with less than 4 heroic and epic lives each that do NOT min max every build and yet want to be able to successfully complete raids of a pack they paid money for on e-norm, in a group that is not optimally composed.

As I read him festus' point mainly was that even more casual players should have a chance to run and complete the epic endgame raids on e-norm once they reach cap, and high tier easy aquirrable loot like from necro chain or the odd 20th list they actually manage to get to them is a slight but important helping hand to be able to do at least that. - For casuals, getting but one item form a MOD 20th list isnt your "I get that done on each ETR" but amounts possibly to a half a year grind during which the raid is run, maaybe every 2 weeks "if things work out"

So its not that the casuals you so kindly grant your benediction to exist too ("Well, then you guys are simply at the EN/EH level There's nothing wrong with that" offensive, much, are we, nice tone you got there :P) are swimming in epic raid loot that by your standards they are not entitled to, its more like that now and then they manage to get but one of these non-mythic items which to them is a great boon and a small stepping stone towards being able to step up to such challenges at least a bit more often.

I do think the since necro BTA-loot trend is the devs catering to this fact, to the crowd that is still working hard on even getting up to shape at a time where you lot have finished your 20th-timer-grind-week thrice over on three alts.
For the game at large, this is much more important then a few loudspeaking folks like you who feel that EE completions dont net you the e-peen you feel entitled to.
SO RLY, if you have a problem with things as they currently are you shouldn't kick down on the casuals and make life harder for them but rather appeal to the devs to make your mythic badges of honor more prominent. would be much more honest too btw... and yes, I concur with festus that in fact the casual crowd is the larger one, it just rarely has a voice on forums, and you lot dont notice that much cause you run your grind with the same EE savy completionist crowd each life.

just to put some perspective on where I come from, Im a member of the raid group festus mentioned and one of those that does pug harder diffs outside of it, and I acknowledge doing that speeds up getting your character up to speed, but I also feel people should not be forced to do that to be able to complete the endgame raids e-norm if they prefer to run raids in their static group...

[slarden]

I see. Well, then you guys are simply at the EN/EH level. There's nothing wrong with that, this is why there's a difficulty spectrum.

But with the loot, wouldn't you think it's reasonable that for your skill level, there are some items out there that are simply beyond your reach? Unless you figure out a way to tackle that EE peaks or that EE MOD flagging chain, of course. The EE setting is simply a different world out there for you guys, you shouldn't be affected at all by the existence of gear that is appropriate to those who manage to overcome it.

To put it another way, given that you just said "elite is out of the question", do you still feel like you should have the same exact gear as those who do beat it? Or should you have gear that is of lower calibre but still an upgrade for your level of play?

They already have that with mythic bonuses. Steel said they would rarely drop below EE, but this is good proof that no matter what the devs do it will never be enough. On 10 slots that is +40 mythic bonuses and will lead to more of the same - "the game is too easy make it harder" threads.

I think the there should be more of a progression from EN to EE instead of having both mythic flavors (+2 and +4) rarely drop below EE. The +2 should drop more on EH also with only the +4 mythic rarely dropping below EE.

As for your comment in bold. Many people can run EE quests and those that can't can easily join a party - and that's exactly happens with tiered loot - people will want to only run on EE even if they aren't built for it. The other problem is that with EE raids the problem is finding enough other people that are able to run the raid since it's scaled for 12. On some servers there just aren't enough people and on all servers people are focused on fast TR and not on beating new raids on EE. I was lucky enough to get into a few successful EE MOD raids, but I've seen very few attempts to form an EE MOD party since the raid started on Sarlona. There are 2 guilds that run EE high level raids I don't run with regularly, but other than that I would be on the invite list for any ee MOD raid attempts on Sarlona - so I am quite confident there isn't much EE MOD raiding going on (Sarlona) period and I am sure Turbine's data backs that up. This is why I would like to see more of a step up on the mythic bonuses instead of it being back-loaded to EE.

[Dalsheel]

On the Raid gloves: Remove spellcraft 20 and Quality spell focus, add 'Arcane Lore XV'.

- No, ty. I was waiting for another +20spellcraft item so I can stop swapping to the silly book from HH for boss fights. Also, dropping a stacking DCs bonus effect sounds like a bad idea considering what I've read so far about monster saves in the new pack.

- Arcane Lore XV would translate in 25% universal Lore right? Not going to happen m8, sorry.

[Xerio]

- No, ty. I was waiting for another +20spellcraft item so I can stop swapping to the silly book from HH for boss fights. Also, dropping a stacking DCs bonus effect sounds like a bad idea considering what I've read so far about monster saves in the new pack.

- Arcane Lore XV would translate in 25% universal Lore right? Not going to happen m8, sorry.

second, as much as we all enjoy some spell crit.. I would much rather have the +20 spell craft. While it will suck to lose the +10 insightful spell craft on that blasted book, having another source of spellcraft from an item where the other stats are attractive too is always a plus.