U27 Items Official Discussion - Round 2

[pjw]

- Arcane Lore XV would translate in 25% universal Lore right?

No, it would be 15%. Slightly worse than thunderforged and MOD items.

[pjw]

I would much rather have the +20 spell craft.

Why? You can get 15 on augments (13 if shop bought), which go in ANY augment slot, and there's already the book, the bracers and prismatic cloaks (if you're lucky) as sources of spellcraft.

[JOTMON]

Are there mythic versions of Mark of Death loot?

No, there are not.

Why not?..

[JOTMON]

Yes, 6-7 Tomes will drop in the Raid on Epic Elite, at about the same rarity as Epic Elite TOEE.

When will +7 tomes be in the store..

I bought and wasted 1,000 shards rerolling EE ToEE end chests and never saw a single tome drop ( I have 6 mushroom caps and 4 Elemental Victories before I started leaving them in the chest since no one wanted them anymore..).
I finally came to the realization that shard rerolls were just a rip-off.
1000 Astral Shards cost me 5395TP.. I am guessing that will be the same cost as a full set of Tomes...

[legendkilleroll]

When will +7 tomes be in the store..

Hopefully never.

I dont even have many +5 tomes, no interest is buying them, would like to see them drop little more in game.

[Vanhooger]

When will +7 tomes be in the store..

I bought and wasted 1,000 shards rerolling EE ToEE end chests and never saw a single tome drop ( I have 6 mushroom caps and 4 Elemental Victories before I started leaving them in the chest since no one wanted them anymore..).
I finally came to the realization that shard rerolls were just a rip-off.
1000 Astral Shards cost me 5395TP.. I am guessing that will be the same cost as a full set of Tomes...

Same here I did only god knows how many ee toee run, never saw a tome in my name, just saw one +7 wis for someone else. Spent tons of shards on reroll too, now I just don't run it anymore, not worth my time.

[Cetus]

there is a couple of things with your perspective that would make things much harder for casuals if they were followed by the devs.

first of all, the availability of good epic items from e-norm too means that casual players get some help with getting in the position to run these high level raids in the first place(On e-norm, mind!). Sadly, your fixiation on your own elitist views seems to make you incapable of conceiving such, which becomes best apparent in your "if I couldnt run something succesfully I wouldnt feel entitled to that loot, too" statement - thats really easy to say on a triple completionist but a nice example of cynicism for people with less than 4 heroic and epic lives each that do NOT min max every build and yet want to be able to successfully complete raids of a pack they paid money for on e-norm, in a group that is not optimally composed.

As I read him festus' point mainly was that even more casual players should have a chance to run and complete the epic endgame raids on e-norm once they reach cap, and high tier easy aquirrable loot like from necro chain or the odd 20th list they actually manage to get to them is a slight but important helping hand to be able to do at least that. - For casuals, getting but one item form a MOD 20th list isnt your "I get that done on each ETR" but amounts possibly to a half a year grind during which the raid is run, maaybe every 2 weeks "if things work out"

So its not that the casuals you so kindly grant your benediction to exist too ("Well, then you guys are simply at the EN/EH level There's nothing wrong with that" offensive, much, are we, nice tone you got there :P) are swimming in epic raid loot that by your standards they are not entitled to, its more like that now and then they manage to get but one of these non-mythic items which to them is a great boon and a small stepping stone towards being able to step up to such challenges at least a bit more often.

I do think the since necro BTA-loot trend is the devs catering to this fact, to the crowd that is still working hard on even getting up to shape at a time where you lot have finished your 20th-timer-grind-week thrice over on three alts.
For the game at large, this is much more important then a few loudspeaking folks like you who feel that EE completions dont net you the e-peen you feel entitled to.
SO RLY, if you have a problem with things as they currently are you shouldn't kick down on the casuals and make life harder for them but rather appeal to the devs to make your mythic badges of honor more prominent. would be much more honest too btw... and yes, I concur with festus that in fact the casual crowd is the larger one, it just rarely has a voice on forums, and you lot dont notice that much cause you run your grind with the same EE savy completionist crowd each life.

just to put some perspective on where I come from, Im a member of the raid group festus mentioned and one of those that does pug harder diffs outside of it, and I acknowledge doing that speeds up getting your character up to speed, but I also feel people should not be forced to do that to be able to complete the endgame raids e-norm if they prefer to run raids in their static group...

This post seems more emotional than rational. I did nothing but try to be respectful in our conversation - so some of the parts I highlighted in bold are uncalled for.

To return to my point, if you want a Law Degree, you have to go to law school. Period. This isn't elitist - this is basic risk vs. reward logic.

Every casual player underneath the sun having the opportunity to acquire the games greatest gear without ever much lifting a finger to play the game at its hardest seems inherently wrong to me, sorry.

And, I absolutely meant it that if the game releases a new difficulty that **I** can't handle (I'm not the greatest player ever you know, there are much better players out there) - I'll be happy to be in the position to lack the loot that drops therein, until such a day comes that I can improve sufficiently or muster a strategy with my friends that allows me to earn the item. I'm not being elitist in saying that.

[Violith]

Same here I did only god knows how many ee toee run, never saw a tome in my name, just saw one +7 wis for someone else. Spent tons of shards on reroll too, now I just don't run it anymore, not worth my time.

anyone test whether its possible to 'reroll' and get a tome? Cant say I've spent much in rerolls (never had the 1k shards to try on live) but cant remember every getting a tome on a rerolled chest.

[Cetus]

They already have that with mythic bonuses. Steel said they would rarely drop below EE, but this is good proof that no matter what the devs do it will never be enough. On 10 slots that is +40 mythic bonuses and will lead to more of the same - "the game is too easy make it harder" threads.

I think the there should be more of a progression from EN to EE instead of having both mythic flavors (+2 and +4) rarely drop below EE. The +2 should drop more on EH also with only the +4 mythic rarely dropping below EE.

As for your comment in bold. Many people can run EE quests and those that can't can easily join a party - and that's exactly happens with tiered loot - people will want to only run on EE even if they aren't built for it. The other problem is that with EE raids the problem is finding enough other people that are able to run the raid since it's scaled for 12. On some servers there just aren't enough people and on all servers people are focused on fast TR and not on beating new raids on EE. I was lucky enough to get into a few successful EE MOD raids, but I've seen very few attempts to form an EE MOD party since the raid started on Sarlona. There are 2 guilds that run EE high level raids I don't run with regularly, but other than that I would be on the invite list for any ee MOD raid attempts on Sarlona - so I am quite confident there isn't much EE MOD raiding going on (Sarlona) period and I am sure Turbine's data backs that up. This is why I would like to see more of a step up on the mythic bonuses instead of it being back-loaded to EE.

And in my response to the dev who confirmed this, I said it was perfect - I like the mythic EE incentive.

One thing you touched upon here in bold is exactly what I'm criticizing - the entitlement attitude that regardless of skill or party cooperation, people just want the best of the best gear without working for it. This game is based on accelerating your characters strength and minimizing their weaknesses every step of the way, what incentive is there to improve your character if you can just waltz through and get anything you want? To me, that's boring

[Vellrad]

Want to make FF clicky something actually useful?
Make it toggle off/on like air savant FF.

[Vellrad]

Why not?..

Would you like to rerun exactly the same bad raid over and over, after running it over and over, to get exactly the same loot you have now, but with +2 to something?

[JOTMON]

Would you like to rerun exactly the same bad raid over and over, after running it over and over, to get exactly the same loot you have now, but with +2 to something?

If its something I wanted I would keep trying until I got it or gave up.
Currently there is no motivation to run difficulty beyond normal..
If there were mythics in there, I would up my game instead of easyfarm rinse/repeat Normals.

I am still running VOL EE trying for that elusive Mythic Emerald Gaze..

besides what else is there to do besides ride the TR rollercoaster..

[Malusny]

As far as I can tell, it's the best direct damaging shield in the game.

I think you need to learn more about this game and find out what Maidstone Aegis is Ml 24 :-) please try to do more research before replying next time. Cheers

[lyrecono]

When will +7 tomes be in the store..

I bought and wasted 1,000 shards rerolling EE ToEE end chests and never saw a single tome drop ( I have 6 mushroom caps and 4 Elemental Victories before I started leaving them in the chest since no one wanted them anymore..).
I finally came to the realization that shard rerolls were just a rip-off.
1000 Astral Shards cost me 5395TP.. I am guessing that will be the same cost as a full set of Tomes...

really?
i pulled 3 and i stopped playing ToEE a month after coming out due to epics being boring (at least to me)
i even traded my +7 int (useless to me) for a +7 str
not that those tomes do me any good in heroics but at least i'm set for when turbine decides to create endgame content in a competent and fun matter.
never could be bothered with buying tomes, too expensive on the AH when i started playing the game, they didn't stuck around after tr-ing.
Though that changed over the years, i never felt forced to get them, i either found them while casually playing or i didn't, it's just a game not a paid privilege to get into elite.
Paying for packs/vip status is to be expected (turbine staff needs to eat, server needs to be kept running etc) but if i need to pay for tomes to be able to play along on elite i will simply step down.
In a economy that seems to resemble a soap bubble, more people should try think before spending their money on a virtual good that adds a +1 to a stat where barbs were able to reach a (temp) 100 when the cap was 20.

[Steve_Howe]

I think you need to learn more about this game and find out what Maidstone Aegis is Ml 24 :-) please try to do more research before replying next time. Cheers

Ok, but only if you read the entire thread before replying.

Not realizing Madstone Aegis was better at direct damage than Ultimatum by less than two points, I think, is excusable considering how much lower level it is than Ultimatum. Additionally, the Madstone Aegis' other mods aren't particularly good so it isn't all that popular except, perhaps, among rare shield bashing paladins.

Regarding knowing this game, I've been playing it a LONG time and I'd wager real money I know it better than you.

Oh, and while we're nitpicking, learn how to spell "Madstone" correctly too.

[moo_cow]

Ok, but only if you read the entire thread before replying.

Not realizing Madstone Aegis was better at direct damage than Ultimatum by less than two points, I think, is excusable considering how much lower level it is than Ultimatum. Additionally, the Madstone Aegis' other mods aren't particularly good so it isn't all that popular except, perhaps, among rare shield bashing paladins.

Regarding knowing this game, I've been playing it a LONG time and I'd wager real money I know it better than you.

Oh, and while we're nitpicking, learn how to spell "Madstone" correctly too.

If you are comparing items based on Base Damage Rating then I'd wager real money that you don't. If anyone even looks at that number to consider anything than they don't know anything.

[FestusHood]

And in my response to the dev who confirmed this, I said it was perfect - I like the mythic EE incentive.

One thing you touched upon here in bold is exactly what I'm criticizing - the entitlement attitude that regardless of skill or party cooperation, people just want the best of the best gear without working for it. This game is based on accelerating your characters strength and minimizing their weaknesses every step of the way, what incentive is there to improve your character if you can just waltz through and get anything you want? To me, that's boring

For casual players, completing these raids on epic normal is actually just as difficult as it for you and your buddies to do them on epic elite . You keep insinuating that it signifies laziness on their part, that's a misrepresentation of the reality.

Effort =/= achievement in most cases where talent is a factor. In our society in general, i think most people would believe that people who expend more effort deserve things more than people who get them easily.

The argument can also be made that less talented people actually need the help of good gear more, not unlike how the NFL awards the first pick in next year's draft to the worst team, not the Superbowl champs.

I prefer the setup where a person can substitute effort for talent to achieve things. Talented people can get these things easily, less talented people can still get them, but they need to expend much more effort. That's how all of the crafting systems in this game currently work.

[SealedInSong]

Almost any item for Wizards and look at this new **** that make me: INT +12 (ok), USELEES Spell Resistance, USELEES lesser displacement, USELEES acid and cold resistance and USELEES teleport!

Not to fuel the fire re: wizards being ****ed on by Turbine, but I'd like to see a more pure-caster item here. The rod doesn't count to me as it's a generalist caster stick.

The belt looks like a "here's a +know the angles replacement for ToEE lesser displacement." I'll loot that on my barbarian, and feel bad that the one wizard that was actually allowed int he party (or other int-based folks) didn't get it. That said, I won't feel bad enough to NOT pull it.

Pure caster offhand item please! Thanks for the new, actually useful items.

[SealedInSong]

Nobody but cleric has the broken sunburst SLA that blinds all the living mobs and kills undead without saves. That's hugely overpowered and since the ability isn't subject to save at all at the moment will work and be effective in Shavarath unlike most DC casting.

Are you saying that the morninglord SLA doesn't have saves?

It has as 30 second cooldown which is pretty punitive, I guess.

[Gralhota]

Not to fuel the fire re: wizards being ****ed on by Turbine, but I'd like to see a more pure-caster item here. The rod doesn't count to me as it's a generalist caster stick.

The belt looks like a "here's a +know the angles replacement for ToEE lesser displacement." I'll loot that on my barbarian, and feel bad that the one wizard that was actually allowed int he party (or other int-based folks) didn't get it. That said, I won't feel bad enough to NOT pull it.

Pure caster offhand item please! Thanks for the new, actually useful items.

I had not considered this possibility but thank you realize that **** never ends, you're right this is an item for melee, the Int +12 serves only as a bonus for skills.


The only item that Wizard received this update is the ring with +1 quality DC. Turbine good work!


I do not know how the design work is done, but I think they should learn from Blizzard.

If there is one or more responsible, they should be replaced, clearly the work is precarious.

My''argumentos`` can hurt, but not less than the decisions of Turbine against the Wizard class that game since 2009 and only with her.