Did U23 PRR/MRR changes work?

[AbyssalMage]

QTF

Heavy armor is significantly better then light/no armor + evasion.

^ This ^

[Monkey-Boy]

QTF

Heavy armor is significantly better then light/no armor + evasion.

but only at 28, it is one set of armor that throws off the balance.

[luvirini]

but only at 28, it is one set of armor that throws off the balance.

No, Heavy armor is much better from the point when incoming damage starts to matter to 28. So about levels 7-28 or so, with the low limit being +/- few levels.

[Monkey-Boy]

No, Heavy armor is much better from the point when incoming damage starts to matter to 28. So about levels 7-28 or so, with the low limit being +/- few levels.

we disagree on the meaning of the word "much."

[J1NG]

Not sur if you can save against abbot energy burst but on en my monk takes the full 800 damage. Also some spells have no save. With heavy armor prr and mrr just shrug it off. But even for prr it makes other monk stance besides earth stance less viable for melee.

You can save against it. It's just most monks will never have the standing reflex saves needed to make the save. The Abbots Energy Burst: Fire is rated as DC 90 Reflex on eE..

Most players monks I've seen relied too much on buffs to reach that level of reflex (especially bad since Abbot dispels very often), so were unable to save against it on eE. It's lower on eH and eN obviously though, so yeah, can be saved easily enough.

Not yet tested the DC's for lower levels, so if it's not up on wiki, it'll be later on when I've finished testing for it. Kinda hard to drop appropriate saves on my build.

J1NG

[Rykka]

It's definitely made playing a heavy armor whatever, FOTM. I don't hate it though, it lets heavy armor classes be effective without splashing monk. It's nice to see "fighters" in plate instead of pajamas.

That said, I'm still comfortable playing a pajama fighter/monk/pally. I clench a bit more against orange champs than with a simple pure pally, but that's ok.

[elcagador]

No, Heavy armor is much better from the point when incoming damage starts to matter to 28. So about levels 7-28 or so, with the low limit being +/- few levels.

It depends on how much prr/mrr you can get with evasion and good reflex save, for example a swashbuckler with stalwart stance+evasion and light armor can easily get 80+ prr/60+ mrr with useful evasion, good dodge and displascement so is comparable to build with high prrr/mrr but no evasion. Some monk splashes can easily get more than 65+ prr/ 49+ mrr with imp evasion and high dodge. At level 28 heavy armor builds can use the armor that gives Dr 30/ DR 60 and that's what favors heavy armor builds at that level.

There are some few quests which favors considerably evasion like Enter the kobold, and there are raids like Mod that considerably favors heavy armor.

[J1NG]

Bleh, having issues editing previous post.

DC for Abbot on eN Energy Burst: Fire is rated at DC 52 Reflex (53 needed to save).

Which should be very reachable for most monks that haven't skimped on defence.

J1NG

[J1NG]

Bah, no idea why I can't edit my own posts.

eH Abbot Energy Burst: Fire is at DC 59.

So...

If your evasion types don't have Reflex of 53, 59 or 90 (eN, eH, eE) don't stay in range too long of the Abbot or carry Fire Absorption capability of some kind.

Returning back to the topic at hand though, I'd agree that it's easier to just chuck on enough Armour and Shields to get through instead once damage reaches beyond a certain point. I'd say around Epic Gianthold on Epic Elite. Much more effective than simply going Evasion route. (Less PRR and MRR, only viable route if is you have ultra high saves and defences allowing you to ignore in first place). And as someone else already said, certain effects, spells and abilities that would ignore evasion are still blocked by MRR. Which would make MRR more viable in the long run for players. As no fail saves for evasion types are getting harder to achieve for non (many years) grinded out types as enemy DC's increase far faster than what any PC can achieve with most updates.

J1NG

[luvirini]

There are some few quests which favors considerably evasion like Enter the kobold, and there are raids like Mod that considerably favors heavy armor.

Actually I did etk on elite on my rogue life(rogue/fighter/cleric) and ameliating strike was enough to keep me healed while basically just running up to the boss and hitting, then repeat for second boss and finally the trash, followed by raising the evasion types..

[janave]

It is worth spending APs to make your Arcanes armored/shielded, id say on your Wizards it is possibly worth takign the feats too. MRR reduces light damage, evasion will not help vs a lot of that dmg type.

+30-50% survivability easily worth 2-5% offense tradeoff.

Multiclassing for it is an option too, altho i personally dont like to trade class levels for something i can get without.

[Wizza]

It worked so much that they had to introduce a new mechanic called Champions Mobs to make up for the disaster.

[bartharok]

Bah, no idea why I can't edit my own posts.



J1NG

try opening in a new window. works for me on the computers i cant normally edit on.

[Uska]

but only at 28, it is one set of armor that throws off the balance.

No,it matters enough once you can mitigate the ASF enough to use the heavy armor

[Uska]

Bleh, having issues editing previous post.

DC for Abbot on eN Energy Burst: Fire is rated at DC 52 Reflex (53 needed to save).

Which should be very reachable for most monks that haven't skimped on defence.

J1NG

To edit right click on edit option and open in new window.

[Uska]

try opening in a new window. works for me on the computers i cant normally edit on.

Or use a tablet since I can edit with easy on my iPad

[Ancient]

but only at 28, it is one set of armor that throws off the balance.

It is better at all levels.

[IronClan]

It worked and right now it's FOTM so everyone thinks it's way better than it actually is and conversely everyone thinks unarmored is complete rubbish. Of course anyone who was ALREADY wearing heavy armor for flavor reasons, feels like they found money... And in my experience a WHOLE LOT of players fit that description... So it's no surprise that many people who just picked up a $100 bill feel like maybe this is too good to be true.

[Uska]

It worked and right now it's FOTM so everyone thinks it's way better than it actually is and conversely everyone thinks unarmored is complete rubbish. Of course anyone who was ALREADY wearing heavy armor for flavor reasons, feels like they found money... And in my experience a WHOLE LOT of players fit that description... So it's no surprise that many people who just picked up a $100 bill feel like maybe this is too good to be true.

Actually it works so good that it is likely that it will be changed.

[IronClan]

Actually it works so good that it is likely that it will be changed.

Doubt it the Dev's can do math.