U24 - Frenzied Berserker Update

[poltt48]

This is just sad 2 updates on lamnia now and this tree still sucks so much more then use to. Ravenger tree does far more damage and has more utility in it. By far a fail and ever single post here keeps telling you this tree sucks on lamnia but we cannot get a dev to even look at it.

•Core

•Die Hard: (1 AP, Barbarian Level 1). You gain the Die Hard feat, and automatically stabilize when incapacitated.

•Toughness: (1 AP, Barbarian Level 3). +20 hit points, +10 Healing Amplification

•Frenzy: (1 AP, Barbarian Level 6). Activation Cost: 10 Hit Points. Cooldown: 30 seconds. Enter a frenzy, increasing your strength by +2. This damage scales with 100% melee power. Passive: +5 Melee Power.
*This a ability blocks rage. Why do I want something that makes me unable to rage?

•Toughness: (1 AP, Barbarian Level 12). You gain 10 Physical Resist Rating. You gain +60 hit points and +20 healing amplification.

•Death Frenzy: (1 AP, Barbarian Level 18). Activation Cost: 20 Hit Points. Cooldown: 30 seconds. Expend 20 hit points to enter a Death Frenzy for one minute. You gain 4 strength. You increase your crit multiplier by an additional 1 on rolls of 19 or 20. This damage scales with 100% melee power. Passive: +10 Melee Power
*again this blocks my rage.

•Storm’s Eye: (1 AP, Barbarian Level 20). Activate: You gain +1 melee damage. This damage bonus gains one stack every six seconds, up to 25 stacks. This ends when you are below 50% health. Activation Cost: 100 Hit Points. Cooldown: 3 minutes. Passive: +4 Constitution. +10 Melee Power. When Raging your melee attacks have a 5% chance to deal an 400 bludgeoning damage. This damage scales with 100% Melee Power.
*Another ability that does not let me rage and really weak for a capstone. Rather have str instead of con on it since this is damage tree.

•Tier One

•Extra Rage: (1/1/1 AP). +1/+2/+3 Rage use per rest

•Cracking Attack: Melee Attack: Deals +1/+2/+3[W] extra damage. Damaging enemies reduces their AC by -1/-2/-3 for 20 seconds. Activation Cost: 5 Hit Points. Cooldown: 30 seconds
* what good is reducing AC by 3 how about lowering PRR or damage resistance.

•Die Harder: Your range of unconsciousness extends +5/+10/+15 HP. When you drop below 1 health, you gain 10/20/30 temp hitpoints. This can only trigger once every five minutes.

•Power Rage: +1/+2/+3 Strength while raging

•Athletics: +1/+2/+3 Balance, Jump, Swim. Rank 3: When you activate Barbarian Rage, you gain +35% Action Boost bonus to movement speed for 20 seconds.


•Tier Two

•Angry Arms: (Requires: Two Handed Fighting, 1/1/1 AP) +1%/+2%/+3% chance of triggering weapon effects on glancing blows and +3%/+4%/+5% glancing blow damage.

•Body Blow: (1/1/1 AP) Damaging enemies with Cracking Attack reduces their Fortitude saving throws by 1/2/3 for 20 seconds.
*another useless ability 3 fort is not really going to matter that much on a mob.

•Blood Tribute: (1/1/1 AP) Gain +50/+100/+150 Temporary Health for one minute. Each epic level adds +25 temporary hitpoints. You have a stacking -1 penalty to constitution until you rest or die. (Cooldown: 3 seconds)
*You got to be ******** to use this ability lower con for temp hp is just stupid.

•Extra Action Boost: (1/1/1 AP) +1/+2/+3 additional Action Boost use per rest.
* does not work with melee power action boost.

•Sprint Boost: (1/1/1 AP) +35%/40%/50% Action Boost bonus to movement speed for 20 seconds. Cooldown: 30 seconds.


•Tier Three

•Mad Munitions: (1/1/1 AP, Requires: Greater Two Handed Fighting, Angry Arms) +1%/+2%/+3% chance of triggering weapon effects on glancing blows and +3%/+4%/+5% glancing blow damage.

•Blood Trail: (1/1/1 AP, Requires: Blood Tribute, Supreme Cleave) Supreme Cleave costs 3/6/10 fewer hit points to activate.
*Just stupid bards and pallys get a cleave costs nothing that they do not have to end up spending 3 more enhancement poins to lower cost since costs nothing.

•Supreme Cleave: (1/1/1 AP) Tactical Melee Cleave: Expend 10 hit points to activate this ability to attack enemies around you. This attack deals +1/+2/+3[W] damage. Activation Cost: 10 Hit Points, affected by Dungeon Scaling. Cooldown: 9/6/3 seconds.
*As noted above pally and bards get a cleaves that are better and do not cost hp to use.

•Strength/Constitution: (2 AP) +1 Strength or Constitution
*Does not let you choose str on lamnia.

•Tier Four

•Crazy Strike: (1/1/1 AP, Requires: Body Blow) When you score a hit with Cracking Attack, for 12 seconds you gain +0.3/+0,6/+1[W] damage and 1/2/3 Melee Power.

•Exhausting Blow: (1/1/1 AP) Melee Attack: Deals +2/+3/+4[W], 1d6/2d6/3d6 Strength, and 1d6/2d6/3d6 Dexterity damage. (Cooldown: 20 seconds)
*does not work on bosses and just rather kill trash then lower there stats.

•Wade In: (1/1/1 AP, Requires: Supreme Cleave) When you Supreme Cleave, you gain +1 Primal bonus to Attack per enemy damaged, up to 3/6/10 maximum. Lasts for 4 seconds.
*By time you get this your barb should never miss on anything but a 1 so useless especially for tier 4.

•Strength/Constitution: (2 AP) +1 Strength or Constitution
*Does not offer str on lamnia.

•Tier Five

•Focus Wide: (2 AP, Requires: Mad Munitions) When you score a vorpal hit, you increase your chance of triggering weapon effects with glancing blows by +10% and gain +10% glancing blow damage for 12 seconds.

•Focused Wrath: (2/2 AP) While raging, increases the critical multiplier of all weapons you use by 1/2 when you roll a natural 19 or 20 that is a confirmed critical hit.

•Lash Out: (1/1/1 AP) Supreme Cleave has a 50%/75%/82% chance to cause bleeding to damaged enemies, inflicting up to 1/2/3 stacks. This can stack up to 5 times. Your Supreme Cleave also reduces the AC of enemies by 1/2/3 for six seconds. This stacks up to five times.
*Really bad for a tier 5. First half mobs in game immune to bleed. Second the damage is really low especially for a tier 5.

•Multi-Selector: (2 AP)

•Accelerated Metabolism: While raging you heal 2d6 hit points every 4 seconds. This healing scales with 100% Melee Power.
*This is not modded by your melee power I have never healed more then 12 from this even over 100 melee power. That and this is really really weak for a tier 5 heal.

•Raging Blows: While raging your melee attacks gain +1[W] to damage.


•Tantrum: (2 AP) Tactical Melee Cleave: Expend 25 hit points to activate this ability and attack enemies around you. This deals +5[W] damage and has a 50% to knock down each damage enemy briefly on a failed Fortitude save vs. 10 + Strength modifier + Barbarian Level. Abilities that trigger on Supreme Cleave also trigger on Tantrum. (Blood Trail, Wade In, Lash Out, Sundering Spin, Storm's Eye)
*Another terrible ability. Cost me hp when bards and pallys get same for no hp in there enhancements. The knockdown does not work on bosses and useless in epic content since almost impossible to get high enough to work on trash over level 20.

[Scrabbler]

I see that Blood Sacrifice has had the Meleepower effect removed, and instead it (weirdly) scales up by epic levels.

I suggest Blood Sacrifice scale with Healing Amp, so that it can increase as you advance through Heroic levels (instead of staying at the same power from level 3-20)

[IronClan]

most of these isn't related to the class or the tree. the only annoying thing I have is remembering to click frenzy each minute.

Granted I made the mistake of using a crit rage example in an FB focused thread but the point remains the same. You can sub in 1 minute death frenzy clickies and it mostly just adds to the click-stravaganza aspect.

If you're not clicking anything but frenzy then I believe you aren't trying very hard.

[Dagolar]

Pretty solid tree, now-
But why can't we get a multi-selector at Core 20 for the choice of stat gain?
It feels really weird to have all three barbarian trees force you into +4 con, rather than giving you options on how you want to build your toon.

Some points, though:

Body Blow, Blood Tribute feel too weak/penalizing to ever want to get. In the case of Blood Tribute, if the con damage regened 1 point every, say, 2 minutes, then it would feel viable.
Supreme Cleave feels a bit underwhelming, compared to the cleave spam that kotc get. At the very least, have it give temporary hit points on use, or something, to make it fit theme while still being distinct from kotc and the like.
Athletics is cute, and I get it sometimes just to burn AP [on live], but lets face it. The skills affected are jokes and noone really cares, and the sprint boost, while handy, isn't going to ever be a serious consideration. It definitely needs a slight additional boost to be viable.

Wade In is absolutely horrible, why would you even? It's not suitable to be a tier 1 ability, much less a tier 4. Emphasis.

[Qhualor]

Granted I made the mistake of using a crit rage example in an FB focused thread but the point remains the same. You can sub in 1 minute death frenzy clickies and it mostly just adds to the click-stravaganza aspect.

If you're not clicking anything but frenzy then I believe you aren't trying very hard.

I said the only annoying part was clicking frenzy. I didn't say its all I click. your post was a complaint because of the constant on/off stance and buffing yourself for the benefit of rage. the point still stands. your complaint is a generalization and no place specifically in a barb thread.

[Scrabbler]

The Lammania version of Cracking Attack + Crazy Strike is absurd.

In addition to gaining a +1W effect on crits, you also get a +300 Meleepower buff on hit. That bonus stacks if your attack hit more than one enemy at once.

[XxJFGxX]

•Tantrum: (2 AP) Tactical Melee Cleave: Expend 25 hit points to activate this ability and attack enemies around you. This deals +5[W] damage and has a 50% to knock down each damage enemy briefly on a failed Fortitude save vs. 10 + Strength modifier + Barbarian Level. Abilities that trigger on Supreme Cleave also trigger on Tantrum. (Blood Trail, Wade In, Lash Out, Sundering Spin, Storm's Eye)

*Another terrible ability. Cost me hp when bards and pallys get same for no hp in there enhancements. The knockdown does not work on bosses and useless in epic content since almost impossible to get high enough to work on trash over level 20.

I did my test on Lam with Tantrum and it looks like a waste of AP imo. Even with a 100 str for example and that's pretty hard to obtain even with cookies, clickies, etcs on a pure barb. But mine is not a pure class *18 barb/1 fighter/1 fvs bladeforged* which I can get a higher str than 100 but lets use 100 str for example. 100 str give you a 45 mod. So given the formula for tantrum as of this writing the formula is as follows:

Fortitude save vs. 10 + 45 + 18 = 73

A 73 DC with 100 str on an ability that has a 50% chance to go off against mobs that doesn't benefit from tactical feats increases on items, EDs, or past lives whatsoever. That's a bad joke. Especially on EE. The only thing that is good on it is the +5[w] from it but on a 30 sec cooldown.

[Scrabbler]

Frenzied Berserker

• Since Supreme Cleave is so central to FB gameplay, it's a really strong reminder of how the Cleave design is broken for TWF. (Not merely a bad choice, but also violating the in-game descriptions. That means it's a bug)
  
  
• Since Supreme Cleave is the central purpose of FB, it gives a really unpleasant reminder that DDO's rate of scrolling onscreen damage numbers is nowhere near fast enough to keep up. The longer a fight goes on, the more behind the numbers get... then when it's over, you get 30+ seconds of watching the old damage numbers keep going and going.
  
  
• It is bad that Accelerated Metabolism has an icon in your buff bar, and bad again that the icon refreshes every 4 sec. Effects which attach to Barbarian Rage do not need a separate icon to remind you of what AP you've spent.
  
  
• Crazy Strike is totally broken, so it's invalid to test the Cracking Attack line right now. But Cracking Attack still needs a lot of work. The 1st icon (Cracking Attack) is simply a weak active attack with an unusually long cooldown and a 5 hp cost. The AC debuff is very trivial (although it is difficult for players to tell when +hit effects are helping them or not). It's especially notable that this is a t1 icon, but low-level characters would be especially foolish to use Cracking Attack: 5 of your small number of hp is too much for a simple 3W swing.
  
• Here's an attempt at fixing Cracking Attack: Cracking Attack uses +15 Meleepower (in addition to +3W). The -3 AC penalty also reduces Fortification. Body Blow adds 3% Vulnerability in addition to -Fortitude. Crazy Strike loses the PRR penalty. Instead, on a non-crit you get 12 sec of +15 PRR and a crit overrides that with 12 sec of +1W.
  
  
• The Lamannia version of Blood Trail is much weaker than what was published in the official discussion. The published one was 2 AP for 0 Supreme Cleave cost and +2 passive Meleepower. The actual one is 6 AP for 0 Supreme Cleave cost. If it stays like that, I will almost certainly invest 0 AP into Blood Trail. (On the other hand, sticking Meleepower in there probably wasn't good; put it elsewhere)
  
  
• Wade In still shows a -1 AC penalty on it. That's just the description; the debuff is really gone. However, Wade In remains extremely weak not just for the obvious reasons, but also because the clicks scale poorly.
  Honestly I suggest reversing the Wade In penalty to a bonus; each stack gives +1 AC and PRR. And 1% running speed. Then it'd be semi-worthwhile.
  
  
• Death Frenzy description still says it damages you on each swing. The UI for Death Frenzy / Regular Frenzy is still bad.
  
  
• I think Sundering Spin is bad. Not quite sure yet. It seems like the amount of damage is poor given the rate it comes in, and the high AP cost, but maybe I'm not quite noticing it right. More damage from Supreme Cleave sounds good in theory, after all. (If the onscreen damage numbers showed up within 1 second of the attack, then I'd have a better feel for these things).
  
  My impression is that Sundering Spin needs the same fixes the Slicing Blow feat does: scale the per-tick damage up according to your Str/Dex mod, your level (or BAB), and your Tendon Slice item.
  
  
• It's pretty painful to buy your way up through the Frenzied Berserker tree if you're not a THF build. Suppose I want to spend 30 AP to reach FB t5. 4 of those is cores. I spend 18 on Extra, Power, Extra, Sprint, and Supreme, leaving 8 more needed. Angry and Mad are out because of THF. Exhausting is out because of Epic. Blood Trail is no-go because 10 hp is under 1% of my total. Wade In and the Cracking Attack series do approximately nothing.
  So I must dump 4 AP into Consitution and then waste the rest.
  
  
• Alright, about Tantrum. Long story short, Supreme Cleave works so well that this tree doesn't have room for an equivalent effect with increased cooldown, damage, and cost. Here are three ideas to redo Tantrum:
  • Make it a passive. Whenever you Supreme Cleave you get extra Meleepower for 4 seconds.
  • Make it a passive. Every 5 sec you get a Tantrum buff which stacks to 5x. Doing Surpreme Cleave spends that stack for +1W each.
  • Keep it an active Cleave action, with long cooldown but no hp cost. Each enemy hit is debuffed for 15 sec with 50% attack speed and damage, and on failed Fortitude gets 0% running speed. If you hit something, you get a 15 sec buff of +15 PRR, Dodge, Tumble, and the ability to Tumble through monsters, but -15 Meleepower. (This version is a defensive ability, used when too many enemies have surrounded you).
  
  
  
• History lesson: in the original Frenzied Berserker tree, Tantrum was the capstone. It did the same things, but instead of 25 hitpoints the cost was 1 Rage.
  

[Severlin]

The Lammania version of Cracking Attack + Crazy Strike is absurd.

In addition to gaining a +1W effect on crits, you also get a +300 Meleepower buff on hit. That bonus stacks if your attack hit more than one enemy at once.

We will look into it. Thanks.

Sev~

[gwonbush]

We will look into it. Thanks.

Sev~

Glad I got to play around with it before you fixed it. It's fun to get (Combat): You hit Kobold for 122,630 points of slash damage. And I'm pretty sure that kobold wasn't even helpless!

[Cetus]

Glad I got to play around with it before you fixed it. It's fun to get (Combat): You hit Kobold for 122,630 points of slash damage. And I'm pretty sure that kobold wasn't even helpless!

Man, if that's true, I totally missed that!

[IronClan]

Cleave is the central purpose of FB, it gives a really unpleasant reminder that DDO's rate of scrolling onscreen damage numbers is nowhere near fast enough to keep up. The longer a fight goes on, the more behind the numbers get... then when it's over, you get 30+ seconds of watching the old damage numbers keep going and going.

This has become much worse over the last couple updates, though I only occasionally see this with Cleaves, it's much more common on SWF and Vanguard (where it happens at every single fight). A thread about this is on the PC but I'd love to see other players chime in with their experiences on this sort of DPS related lag (the faster your attack speed the worse it is). I am convinced that since SWF got 30% stacking alacrity and Vanguard got 15% that the latency in game has suffered and reverted back to feeling like the days of "Shroud lag" during prime time. I back that conviction up with the fact that the Developer Eladrin took stacking alacrity out of the game specifically to help lower the amount of physics checks during combat. The new alacrity has added those physics checks back in and tripled them in the case of SWF. (which is directly reponsible for the Double strike mechanic being put in, to replace the lost alacrity for those who remember the TWF nerf).

Anyway more voices from the players who experience this lagging feedback behavour would be beneficial as so far it's only a couple of the PC that have voiced a concern.

[Seikojin]

This has become much worse over the last couple updates, though I only occasionally see this with Cleaves, it's much more common on SWF and Vanguard (where it happens at every single fight). A thread about this is on the PC but I'd love to see other players chime in with their experiences on this sort of DPS related lag (the faster your attack speed the worse it is). I am convinced that since SWF got 30% stacking alacrity and Vanguard got 15% that the latency in game has suffered and reverted back to feeling like the days of "Shroud lag" during prime time. I back that conviction up with the fact that the Developer Eladrin took stacking alacrity out of the game specifically to help lower the amount of physics checks during combat. The new alacrity has added those physics checks back in and tripled them in the case of SWF. (which is directly reponsible for the Double strike mechanic being put in, to replace the lost alacrity for those who remember the TWF nerf).

Anyway more voices from the players who experience this lagging feedback behavour would be beneficial as so far it's only a couple of the PC that have voiced a concern.

In relation tot his; I felt the lagged numbers was a way to reduce client - server lag so your damage is dealt, but your client just delays the feedback on screen (not in combat log), so you can still move about and perform real time combat instead of lag time combat.

I see screen damage lag when I proc 15-20+ hits per second or more. Which is pretty easy to do if you are doing manyshot+hasteboost+itemhaste, or haste boost+itemspeed+cleave chaining. Also twf can get this or swf if you have higher than 45% attack speed and some doublestrike.

[Dagolar]

Glad I got to play around with it before you fixed it. It's fun to get (Combat): You hit Kobold for 122,630 points of slash damage. And I'm pretty sure that kobold wasn't even helpless!

That's about as much falling damage as I took every time I tried to walk through a doorway [or monk-feather-falled onto any body of water], back right after the physics engine change.

To my mind, these were convergences of the plane of Kythri upon Eberron, and now, you've managed to channel the plane's powers for your own destructive purposes. [Good job!]

Expect the chamber of Kythri in Prison of the Planes to finally open up, soon!

[IronClan]

In relation tot his; I felt the lagged numbers was a way to reduce client - server lag so your damage is dealt, but your client just delays the feedback on screen (not in combat log), so you can still move about and perform real time combat instead of lag time combat.

I see screen damage lag when I proc 15-20+ hits per second or more. Which is pretty easy to do if you are doing manyshot+hasteboost+itemhaste, or haste boost+itemspeed+cleave chaining. Also twf can get this or swf if you have higher than 45% attack speed and some doublestrike.

Sadly blitting those numbers to the screen is nearly as trivial these days as updating the combat log. if they are on your client in the combat log they have already been transmitted. I feel the Damage numbers being delayed is not actually a direct effect of "lag" or high packet latency, but rather probably a side effect. Possibly of the client side prediction code waiting for the server to confirm what it "thinks" is happening.

[Scrabbler]

Sadly blitting those numbers to the screen

Block Image Transfer!

I feel the Damage numbers being delayed is not actually a direct effect of "lag" or high packet latency, but rather probably a side effect. Possibly of the client side prediction code waiting for the server to confirm what it "thinks" is happening.

Yes, there's nothing involving network traffic or server load to it. This problem is strictly in the client-side code, where it doesn't transfer damage numbers into 3d-world objects immediately. Instead it waits for an amount of time. It's hard to guess the reason that delay was added: maybe because they thought it would prevent overloading the client pseudo-3d models, or maybe they just thought it would look better for the human operator.

Here are some easy ways to observe the problem:

• Get 15 monsters in a group around you, and cast Fireball. You should see 15 damage numbers all at once. Instead you see 6 numbers, and the remaining 9 show up 1 at a time afterwards.
• Get an attack speed faster than about 3.3 per second. It takes about 300 milliseconds for a damage number to float up enough for another number to fit under it, so if you swing faster than that the incoming numbers will wait until they have room to display. If you're going only a little above the speed then it'll take a while for the effect to be noticeable, but as time goes on the floating numbers will be more and more delayed from when the damage happened.

Fixing it should be pretty easy... The first thing to do is that when trying to add a damage number to a monster, if the existing damage number hasn't floated up enough to make room, then it (and all above it) should be pushed up to make room. Second, whenever any damage numbers are added (from the buffer to the local 3d world), add all of them; don't stop after some low limit. If for some reason there are too many numbers to add at once (recovering from a network failure), then simply delete the excess.

The goal should be that each damage number should be shown onscreen not more than 200 milliseconds after the client received it. That's not a tough objective.

[Scrabbler]

I've been trying the Frenzied Berserker capstone.

• As a reminder, the FB capstone is 4 Constitution, 10 Meleepower, and active clicky Storm's Eye: spend 100 hp to activate +1 damage per 6 seconds, max 25 ends at 50% hp, cd 180, .
  
  
• The damage bonus from Storm's Eye doesn't show on your inventory window, although I think it is applying correctly. Other damage bonuses with a similar mechanic (like Ravager Furious Rage) do show in inventory correctly.
  
  
• The passive parts make the FB capstone pretty worthy of taking. It's clearly better than the Ravager capstone (which is just hp + amp), and I guess almost good enough to be competitive with splash classes (unless you're SWF). That's partly because Barbs have trouble getting high Reflex (although Harper may shift that a little).
  
  
• Another advantage to the FB capstone over Ravager's or Occult Slayer's is that FB also has a good core18. The core18s in the other Barb trees are terrible (aside from the healing amp, which is boring). Seriously, even if FB core18 was stripped down to [u]only[/i] 10 Meleepower, it would probably be better than core18 in Ravager or OS.
  
  
• Storm's Eye still has the gigantic problems discussed when the new Barb design was first announced.
  
  
• Fundamentally, Storm's Eye gives you a giant bonus in content that was already easy, while in challenging content the benefit is small to non-existent. That's not good. Another way to look at Storm's Eye: "Barb20s take a large damage penalty for ~2 minutes whenever they go under 50% health"
  
  
• What it's like to use Storm's Eye: firstly, the 100 hitpoint cost is negligible for a Barb20 (unless you were in the middle of combat and already low). With your mega-healing amp it takes just a half of a cheap potion to refill, or a couple ticks of Accelerated Metabolism. And you need to click Storm's Eye long before combat starts. In fact, because Storm's Eye takes 1+ minute to build up to a noticeable bonus, it's really something you try to keep going all the time (unless the enemies are so strong you stop bothering).
  
  So you click Storm's Eye as soon as you enter a dungeon, and 2.5 minutes later the bonus maxes out at +25 damage. You keep hoping you stay above 50%, but if you do go below then you wait until back to mostly-full then click it again (to immediately restart the bonus growth). And while it's running you try staying a bit closer to other people's auras and consecrates and whatever, to help ensure staying over half health.
  
  
• Note that Storm's Eye has positive synergy with the Accelerated Metabolism choice in FB tier5, meaning that the other choice (+1W) makes it harder to use.

And super-quickly, here is just one suggestion for a better Storm's Eye:
The clicky costs 1 Rage and has the same duration as Rage, but can be used at the same time. Storm's Eye gives you +15 damage and critical damage when your hp is over half, and +15 Dodge and Reflex while your hp is under half.