Update 22 - Round Four

[Nascoe]

Ok, so for now we will have to work around not being able to get the AS buy amenities from chests. I guess that means many will stay with the current XP shrines and resistance buffs, because it does get a bit steep when you buy them with AS. On the other hand its one time buys, so maybe people will be fine with that?

First tier XP shrine is 95 AS, but where it gets interesting is with the upgrades (upgrades 195, 325, 400, 495 AS - bringing it up to 5% for 1510 AS). And the the grand reliquary (elemental resistance and spellpower boost) - is the most expensive base price at 195 AS. To upgrade, add 275 AS to that, next upgrade is 325 AS and the last upgrade is 395 AS, for a total of almost 1200 AS.)

[Bargol]

I just looked on Lamania to verify the astral shard prices they have listed.

First Airships:

1) Unlike now on live buying the previous airship does not reduce the price of the next tier airship.
2) When buying airships for plat or for astral shards you must buy the next upgrade (for that currency) on through to the top one you want.....you can not skip ships. So say your guild currently has a stormglory typhoon and you decide you want the top level 150 astral shard ship. You will first have to buy the 1000 astral shard shiip, then the 2000 astral shard ship, to then finally be able to buy the 3000 astral shard ship. So 5000 astral shards to fully upgrade. Seems pretty steep to me.

Amenities:

small
Banquet Hall - 75 shards
Danger room - 180 shards
Farshifter's Chambers - 90 shards
Forbidden Library - 195 shards
Ottos Irresistable Dance Hall - 180 shards
Sellsword's Tavern - 150 shards
The Orien Express - 60 shards
Throne Room - 180 shards
Shrine of Experience I - 95 shards upgrades: II - 195 shards III - 325 shards IV - 400 shards V - 495 shards Total = 1510 shards

Large
Cannith Crafting Hall - 125 shards
Grand Reliquary I - 195 shards upgrades: II - 275 shards III - 325 shards IV - 395 shards Total = 1190 shards

Total cost for a guild to upgrade to largest ship and have all amenities = 8935 shards

I understand these are one time prices, but if you compare to the costs for a guild going from level one to 100 under the current system these prices are very high. Some time "soon" some of these amenity contracts will be in loot, but they already stated that won't be with update 22...."puts on tinfoil hat".....I suspect this is on purpose so those that must have will go on a crazy spending spree. This will be this years cash cow for turbine.

[dejafu]

Hmmm re one of the updated items in the release note:

•NEW: Evocation feat bonuses now work on Rune Arms.

I though feat bonuses already worked on rune arms, and certainly wiki seems to think so. What didn't work with runearms was DC bonuses from items that boosted evocation.

This has me confused as well. I'd always thought that feat DC bonuses were the only bonus that applied to rune-arms. Was that bonus not working properly all this time?

In any event, yeah, we really need all evocation DC boosters to apply to runearms. This would go a long way towards making them viable in EE content, especially the ones that push a Reflex save.

[funifulv]

So, I also see that you cannot exchange spells anywhere on the ship.
The other problem I have seen is that the buffs do not give you the cold and acid spell power. The other spell power and skill buffs all work and the acid and cold resistance works, but the cold and acid spell power buff does not work.

[Nascoe]

I just looked on Lamania to verify the astral shard prices they have listed.

First Airships:

1) Unlike now on live buying the previous airship does not reduce the price of the next tier airship.
2) When buying airships for plat or for astral shards you must buy the next upgrade (for that currency) on through to the top one you want.....you can not skip ships. So say your guild currently has a stormglory typhoon and you decide you want the top level 150 astral shard ship. You will first have to buy the 1000 astral shard shiip, then the 2000 astral shard ship, to then finally be able to buy the 3000 astral shard ship. So 5000 astral shards to fully upgrade. Seems pretty steep to me.
-snip -
I understand these are one time prices, but if you compare to the costs for a guild going from level one to 100 under the current system these prices are very high. Some time "soon" some of these amenity contracts will be in loot, but they already stated that won't be with update 22...."puts on tinfoil hat".....I suspect this is on purpose so those that must have will go on a crazy spending spree. This will be this years cash cow for turbine.

I bought the biggest plat airship right away, without having to go through all the smaller ships (1,9 million pp) so it seems that having to buy them consecutively is "only" needed for the AS ships. Might be that is not WAI and the plat ships are just not working as they should off course.

But yeah, buying the amenities for AS will surely mean a bit of a cash cow for Turbine. On the other hand, we could just keep buying our XP shrines, resistance buffs and the banker, mailbox and tavern in the cargo hold (the cheap option, but its annoying because the buffs don't last long, don't sustain through death and you have to go down there to get them).

[nibel]

Explorer Journals - WE DON'T LIKE THEM

/signed

There is something special and logical when you are looking for "The Dank Cave". There is nothing special while looking for "Elminster's Note 34". Looking for an area will make you try and search for that area, thus, "exploring". Looking for journals is basically a giant game of hide-and-seek, because some of them are placed specifically in places where you can't see them, unless you go out of the way and move the camera in an weird angle.

I know everyone loves journals because of all the potential of using voice actors Warner Bros have, but journals are NOT fun, unless they have a direct, cohesive backstory behind them (Like in Cannith, that is a LINEAR ZONE, which made sense for the journals to be hidden). Reading the motivations of Toven and LoB is interesting. Reading Elminster telling you that hunting cats is illegal is... random.

[Purkilius]

/signed

There is something special and logical when you are looking for "The Dank Cave". There is nothing special while looking for "Elminster's Note 34". Looking for an area will make you try and search for that area, thus, "exploring". Looking for journals is basically a giant game of hide-and-seek, because some of them are placed specifically in places where you can't see them, unless you go out of the way and move the camera in an weird angle.

I know everyone loves journals because of all the potential of using voice actors Warner Bros have, but journals are NOT fun, unless they have a direct, cohesive backstory behind them (Like in Cannith, that is a LINEAR ZONE, which made sense for the journals to be hidden). Reading the motivations of Toven and LoB is interesting. Reading Elminster telling you that hunting cats is illegal is... random.

/signed

[Ivan_Milic]

I hate journals, I would rather fight old air eles than look for bloody journals.

[SirShen]

Ok, so for now we will have to work around not being able to get the AS buy amenities from chests. I guess that means many will stay with the current XP shrines and resistance buffs, because it does get a bit steep when you buy them with AS. On the other hand its one time buys, so maybe people will be fine with that?

First tier XP shrine is 95 AS, but where it gets interesting is with the upgrades (upgrades 195, 325, 400, 495 AS - bringing it up to 5% for 1510 AS). And the the grand reliquary (elemental resistance and spellpower boost) - is the most expensive base price at 195 AS. To upgrade, add 275 AS to that, next upgrade is 325 AS and the last upgrade is 395 AS, for a total of almost 1200 AS.)

Am i missing something cant you just buy XP shrine 5% without buying all the rest? Just use the old xp shrine and when your guild level is high enough then buy the new 5% xp shrine.

[Drwaz99]

It looks like you have have to go thru all the upgrades.

Because you know when you buy a car and want the V8 you have to buy the 4 cylinder and V6 models first. Because: Just because.

[MangLord]

Hmmm. I'm pleased that you're working to address rune arms, but I don't feel like adding an extra point or two from feats is going to help all that much, and that's very costly for an arty who doesn't get a ton of feats as it is. A sorcerer can benefit from Evo feats, Evo boosts on items, and Evo boosts in their enhancement trees, which is what an artificer would need to make their rune arm work at a similarly reliable rate.

I'm currently working on my artificer life for my completionist, specializing in the Battle Engineer tree and rune arms. I'm level 13, at the moment, and I'm already starting to encounter a lot of saves on pretty nice rune arms at full charge. At the moment I'm using Chill of Winter and Turmoil Within, both minimum level 13. I have a 36 INT and usually wait for the arm to fully charge before sending downrange. I'm not real clear on how good a fort save spiders have, but glass spiders seem to save every bolt on a fourth tier charge. More often than not, the enemies I'm facing on elite seem to save on at least half the bolts from either rune arm. Pretty much everything in Necro 3 saved against my Hand of Tombs.

Here's the maths I get on my DCs with my current level 13 character using a Turmoil Within arm....
According to DDOWiki, here's the rune arm DC math. 10 + (Charge Tier + 1) + (INT modifier) + (Max Charge Tier - 1) + (Evocation Feat Bonuses)
Base = 10
Charge Tier +1 = +5
Int 36 = +13
Max Charge Tier - 1 = +3
Wizard past life feat (who knows if this actually counts towards rune arms)= +1
Total = DC 32 fort save

A 32 DC is pretty bad for level 11 elites, I think. I can probably squeeze another 4-6 INT points by the time I hit 20, but that doesn't improve the DC much. I can see enemies making a bad roll and taking full damage, but that never happens at epic, and DCs seem to plateau once you hit maximum charge tier 5 arms.

I could be mistaken, but I seem to remember my Pale Master having a DC in the mid 40s with her Finger of Death spell at level 13.


I also have a level 27 pure Artificer, and his rune arms are completely hopeless, so I do have experience with epic level rune arm usage. I just chalked it up to being 1st life without a +5 INT tome, but I'm starting to see a similar decline on my 8th life TR with all types of gear, tomes, etc etc. If I'm already starting to see a drop off at level 13, the enemies only get tougher from here and I don't have a lot of options to boost my rune arm further.

Perhaps a small modification to the Battle Engineer tree to offer some rune-arm DC boosts on the way up the tree? I'd be more than happy to have "disable construct" and "wrack construct" replaced with some DC boosts.

[Irongutz2000]

I just looked on Lamania to verify the astral shard prices they have listed.

First Airships:

1) Unlike now on live buying the previous airship does not reduce the price of the next tier airship.
2) When buying airships for plat or for astral shards you must buy the next upgrade (for that currency) on through to the top one you want.....you can not skip ships. So say your guild currently has a stormglory typhoon and you decide you want the top level 150 astral shard ship. You will first have to buy the 1000 astral shard shiip, then the 2000 astral shard ship, to then finally be able to buy the 3000 astral shard ship. So 5000 astral shards to fully upgrade. Seems pretty steep to me.

Amenities:

small
Banquet Hall - 75 shards
Danger room - 180 shards
Farshifter's Chambers - 90 shards
Forbidden Library - 195 shards
Ottos Irresistable Dance Hall - 180 shards
Sellsword's Tavern - 150 shards
The Orien Express - 60 shards
Throne Room - 180 shards
Shrine of Experience I - 95 shards upgrades: II - 195 shards III - 325 shards IV - 400 shards V - 495 shards Total = 1510 shards

Large
Cannith Crafting Hall - 125 shards
Grand Reliquary I - 195 shards upgrades: II - 275 shards III - 325 shards IV - 395 shards Total = 1190 shards

Total cost for a guild to upgrade to largest ship and have all amenities = 8935 shards

I understand these are one time prices, but if you compare to the costs for a guild going from level one to 100 under the current system these prices are very high. Some time "soon" some of these amenity contracts will be in loot, but they already stated that won't be with update 22...."puts on tinfoil hat".....I suspect this is on purpose so those that must have will go on a crazy spending spree. This will be this years cash cow for turbine.

That is an absurd amount of astral shards. It would be one thing if u could farm shards in game, they only drop rarely and u get 5 at a time. U r asking me for more real life money. I guess my 7 years of VIP isn't good enough? U have to try and squeeze more outta of us? really really?

Unless they lower the cost I will not give in I will ask for a lot of ship invites though. I cannot justify that amount of money for a game that lags so bad it will wipe ur raid group at random.

[Bargol]

That is an absurd amount of astral shards. It would be one thing if u could farm shards in game, they only drop rarely and u get 5 at a time. U r asking me for more real life money. I guess my 7 years of VIP isn't good enough? U have to try and squeeze more outta of us? really really?

Unless they lower the cost I will not give in I will ask for a lot of ship invites though. I cannot justify that amount of money for a game that lags so bad it will wipe ur raid group at random.

Just think though the post you quoted only gives the price to upgrade from a stormglory typhoon. If you are a low level guild the cost is even higher, getting to a point beyond insanity.

[Captain_Wizbang]

small
Banquet Hall - 75 shards
Danger room - 180 shards
Farshifter's Chambers - 90 shards
Forbidden Library - 195 shards
Ottos Irresistable Dance Hall - 180 shards
Sellsword's Tavern - 150 shards
The Orien Express - 60 shards
Throne Room - 180 shards
Shrine of Experience I - 95 shards upgrades: II - 195 shards III - 325 shards IV - 400 shards V - 495 shards Total = 1510 shards

Large
Cannith Crafting Hall - 125 shards
Grand Reliquary I - 195 shards upgrades: II - 275 shards III - 325 shards IV - 395 shards Total = 1190 shards

Total cost for a guild to upgrade to largest ship and have all amenities = 8935 shards

.

That's a little steep don't you think?

[Shinjiteru]

Yeah the prices of the shrines seem to be from a development phase when you could just bypass the earlier shrine types. Because if you have to buy the shrine and then every 'upgrade' it makes no sense to increase the price that much for each upgrade.

And 300 bucks for the best ship... I wonder if how many guilds are really going to 'buy' the AS for that. At least on my server I am sure that some of the elite guilds have players who don't know what to do with their AS anyways, because they sold so many EE items. ^^

[PermaBanned]

Total cost for a guild to upgrade to largest ship and have all amenities = 8935 shards

I understand these are one time prices, but if you compare to the costs for a guild going from level one to 100 under the current system these prices are very high. Some time "soon" some of these amenity contracts will be in loot, but they already stated that won't be with update 22...."puts on tinfoil hat".....I suspect this is on purpose so those that must have will go on a crazy spending spree. This will be this years cash cow for turbine.

****, now even I'm tempted to start duping and selling for shards...

[Irastirdadt]

gonna give a heart or something in this update? to try the new feats or something

Thanks in advance. cheers

[Hiponic]

****, now even I'm tempted to start duping and selling for shards...

How true it is.. sadly... The people who did participate in last dupe-off sold there good for crazy ammounts of shards.... Never got a ban... So ... We just all join the known duping guilds to get access to the nice stuff.. makes sense to me

[Ivan_Milic]

How true it is.. sadly... The people who did participate in last dupe-off sold there good for crazy ammounts of shards.... Never got a ban... So ... We just all join the known duping guilds to get access to the nice stuff.. makes sense to me

How do you know they didnt get a ban?

[zaphear]

Good job Turbine, 9k Astral Shards? Could you be ANYMORE LIKE THIS GUY?!