Lamannia Update: EARLY Enhancements Preview

[Tid12]

He said you start with 5% crit chance and it will still be able to upgrade it through items. The crit damage is the ones that seems nerfed, but crit chance are buffed from what I understand.

How can it be buffed? Eg: Elec spells

On lama: You start at 5% WITH NO WAY TO INCREASE IT WITH ENHANCEMENTS and use a Superior Elec lore for another 12% = total 17%

On live: You start a 4% (Tier I of Sorcerer Charged Spellcasting I), you can increase it to 9% with Sorcerer Charged Spellcasting VI (Grants a 9% chance for electric and sonic spells to generate a critical hit) + Superior Elec lore for another 12% = total 21%.

Lama: 17% chance to crit with YOUR ELEMENT SPELL.
Live: 21% chance.

Damage multipliers:

On lama: +100% from level 1, no way to increase it.
On Live: +50% at level 1, +125% through enhancements.

We are already at: -25% damage multipliers, -4% crit chance.


Add in:

Spellcraft skill: 23 ranks + 4 GH + 30 Mod of INT for wizzies (70 INT lol)/10 Mod for Sorcerers (30 Int, unlikely also) + 6 Exceptional INT Skills + 20 Spellcraft skill item (we have no idea if this will be in game or not) =

83 Spell power for Wizards
63 Spell power for Sorcerers

vs

100 Spell power for element of our choices in live, a net 37 Spell power loss for Sorcerers, the "arcanes" that is supposed to deal damage, less than wizards, the "versatile arcane".

[Ovrad]

Well I have not seen the new enhancements for wiz and sorc, have you? Also, the %bonus from items might have changed.

[IronClan]

He said you start with 5% crit chance and it will still be able to upgrade it through items (and enhancements?). The crit damage is the ones that seems nerfed, but crit chance are buffed from what I understand.

That's not what I got, but it's early, I'd like to say it's too early but I remember when they previewed armor cosmetics and lots of people thought it was a horrible way to do it and not nearly custom enough and they just went right ahead and put it in that way.

As I understand it the intent is to boost LOW LEVEL crits right off the bat, but the enhancement lines are going completely away. With items to be adjusted later.

The sound of the "temporary bonuses" has me thinking they're moving a lot of abilities toward the "burst damage" and "epic moment counter" long cool down paradigm.

I hope not, I can't stand long cool down momentary abilities... They ruin game play for me, replacing the feeling of character power with the feeling of cool down management and "overseer of counters".

I don't want to babysit counter increments and cool downs. There's already too much of that in the ED's. The game has too many clickies already.

[Tid12]

Well I have not seen the new enhancements for wiz and sorc, have you? Also, the %bonus from items might have changed.

Meh, I've seen the new stuff and I talk about the new stuff. Your excuse is pretty weak. There is no reason to believe the %bonus from items might have changed.

IF they have changed them, we are still looking at a pretty serious nerf. Regardless of the new items bonus, our enhancements that before granted 9% Spell crit chance and +125% crit Damage enhancements are now only granting 5% and 100% respectively.

And it is not a small nerf. It's a pretty big one. And it's a FACT since Vargouille stated that these bonuses WON'T BE in the new enhancements.

We might as well have +Spell power in our trees but we are also looking a nerf here. Saying I can get up to +50 Spell power, like the Cleric Class tree, based on my previous math:

Spellcraft skill: 23 ranks + 4 GH + 30 Mod of INT for wizzies (70 INT lol)/10 Mod for Sorcerers (30 Int, unlikely also) + 6 Exceptional INT Skills + 20 Spellcraft skill item (we have no idea if this will be in game or not) =

83 Spell power for Wizards
63 Spell power for Sorcerers

+50 Spell power = 133 for wizzies, 113 for Sorcerers. This IF and only IF there will be a +20 Spellcraft skill item and with absurd INT requirements. Most likely, we will end up with ~80 on a wiz and ~50 for a Sorc.

INT on a Sorc:

18 Base (LOL, never going to happen)
+8 Item
+3 Insight
+1 Exceptional
+4 Tome
---------------------
+34 (+12)

with a STARTING INT OF 18, ON A SORC. Drop it to 12 starting, +7 item, +2 Insight, more reasonable that's 26 Int (+8 Mod).

vs the 100 we have now with enhancements.

[Ovrad]

And it is not a small nerf. It's a pretty big one. And it's a FACT since Vargouille stated that these bonuses WON'T BE in the new enhancements.

You sure about that?

We've removed Spell Critical Damage bonuses in general, but there are still may sources of Spell Critical Chance.

[Tid12]

You sure about that?

Adding more items for an increased bonus != getting them in the enhancement trees. Of course we are getting more sources of Spell Critical chance: our level will be raised to 28 when this hits live. But it is NOT the same thing. We should keep our 9% - 125% damage AND the increased bonuses in the items.

This is like the nerf of Healing spells: nerf them to buff them with items ML28, it just makes me lol. The difference is that while a heal spell will top off pretty much everyone even after the serious nerf, the arcanes and divines will be far far behind melees in DPS output than they are already.

They should have left it alone, buff it or actually be more precise. Right now, this is a big nerf to every arcane and divine out there.

Also, as I cannot be sure, you can't either. I believe in what I see, not in what's coming in the future, and what WE see now is a nerf.

[Ovrad]

Also, as I cannot be sure, you can't either. I believe in what I see, not in what's coming in the future, and what WE see now is a nerf.

You are right, I can't be sure either. But you seem to assume that all bonuses are gone from enhancements trees. I have not seen any confirmation of that yet; if you have, please point it out.

[RD2play]

The "dance of death" final ability in the tempest tree from ranger cant be maxed, it can only have tier 1 due to prereq not being able to meet the 3 tiers it has. prereq has only 1 tier

[Charononus]

The "dance of death" final ability in the tempest tree from ranger cant be maxed, it can only have tier 1 due to prereq not being able to meet the 3 tiers it has. prereq has only 1 tier

I can't even change to tempest, where tempest should be it says invalid and loads a blank template.

[Tid12]

You are right, I can't be sure either. But you seem to assume that all bonuses are gone from enhancements trees. I have not seen any confirmation of that yet; if you have, please point it out.

This is what I got from what Vargouille said.

Either he needs to clarify himself that so I can shut up or I'll keep thinking that he meant that there won't be any Spell crit chance/damage in the enhancements.

[Azara]

Probably going to get flamed for part of this post, but oh well!

1 - I love the new enhancement trees! They are WAY more appealing than the old interface!

2 - What I didn't love was the lack of response to questions. In the course of an hour, I asked the same question 20 DIFFERENT TIMES and still got NO ANSWER!

Sure, Kookie finally asked what my question was AFTER I had already stated that I'd rather play Neverwinter where questions ACTUALLY get answered, but by that time I was already disgusted and ready to log off! Way to help others guys (I hope the OOZING sarcasm is apparent)!

[EllisDee37]

Magical Training now grants 5% spell crit.

[Aussir]

Magical Training now grants 5% spell crit.

Craptastic, I need to toss 1 feat to get it.... because we're all fighters swimming in feats, right?

I only have this to say... you people whined and whined and whined... you reap what you sow. Have fun killing this game.

[TreknaQudane]

We're planning to simplify Spell Criticals and made them more effective early in the game.

We've removed Spell Critical Damage bonuses in general, but there are still may sources of Spell Critical Chance. When you score a critical with a spell, you now deal +100% damage, increased from the old base of +50%. We may introduce some temporary bonuses that increase this to +200% or higher, but we felt that the added complexity of adding 25% here and there wasn't justified.

The Magical Training feat, which most spellcasting classes get at level 1, grants +5% spell critical chance. This means most casters at level 1 have a 5% chance to deal +100% damage.

We have not yet done a pass on items for this change but they will be brought in line with these changes.

If only DnD had a rule for allowing spells to critical that was akin to the way attacks were calculated but adjusted for non-attack heavy classes. Maybe if your attack only had to touch the target be it melee or ranged.

[Vargouille]

Craptastic, I need to toss 1 feat to get it.... because we're all fighters swimming in feats, right?

You already have Magical Training if you are a Wizard, Sorcerer, Cleric, Druid, Favored Soul, or Artificer.

EDIT: For those asking about Bards, the magic ball says to ask again later. Specifically at all ranks of Spellsinger Tier 1 abilities in two weeks. We have a pretty useful magic ball here.

[SableShadow]

You already have Magical Training if you are a Wizard, Sorcerer, Cleric, Druid, Favored Soul, or Artificer.

I'm beginning to think y'all thought a bit before you put this out.
Shhhhh! I promise not to tell anyone.

[TreknaQudane]

You already have Magical Training if you are a Wizard, Sorcerer, Cleric, Druid, Favored Soul, or Artificer.

Bards should get Magical Training. They are much of a 'caster' as Artificers are traditionally.

[NytCrawlr]

I'm beginning to think y'all thought a bit before you put this out.
Shhhhh! I promise not to tell anyone.

Yes. Couple changes I am not liking (think I am missing something though).

Overall though this is a step in the right direction.

[Aussir]

You already have Magical Training if you are a Wizard, Sorcerer, Cleric, Druid, Favored Soul, or Artificer.

The way this was worded, sounded as if we had to take it even on those classes. I stand corrected.

I do have one question as I'm being unable to get into Lammania. It concerns the trees.

Let's say you have a 14 ranger/6 fighter. Since we only can have 3 trees active and, from the little I can see, have to waste a bunch of AP's on unnecessary things, how does this bode for someone who gets the kensai?
Or for someone who takes 3 classes... how is this going to work when you can only have 3 trees active?

Depending on how the enhancements are distributed among trees, it may completely kill multi-class and a lot of builds. I personally don't consider this a good thing to do.

I'm sure that the Devs are seeing all the outrage at the pigeon-holing done in NWO... please don't force this on us as well or we might as well just move to NWO.

[Matuse]

How does 'taking out most of the racial toughness enchancements' make it 'more of a choice than before'?

Since what were the racial toughness enhancements are given automatically, you can now spend those AP on other things.

Craptastic, I need to toss 1 feat to get it.... because we're all fighters swimming in feats, right?

Magical Training is automatic at level 1 for almost all blue bar classes.

On lama: You start at 5% WITH NO WAY TO INCREASE IT WITH ENHANCEMENTS and use a Superior Elec lore for another 12% = total 17%

On live: You start a 4% (Tier I of Sorcerer Charged Spellcasting I), you can increase it to 9% with Sorcerer Charged Spellcasting VI (Grants a 9% chance for electric and sonic spells to generate a critical hit) + Superior Elec lore for another 12% = total 21%.

On Live, you spend 10 AP to get that 9% crit and 105% crit damage, where on Lama, you spend 0 AP to get 5% crit and 100% crit damage.

You think you could find somewhere to invest 10 AP? I can...REALLY easily.