Courtesy

[Gremmlynn]

I rarely join LFMs as I'm leveling up, but on the rare occasion, I don't join LFMs that say "no zergers" or other flower sniffing comments such as those.

Therefore, I assume everyone wants to get the quest done ASAP, making working towards a faster completion is the best teamwork anyone can do.

As a side note, I like fingering mobs at 10% hp when it's obvious that the melees should be focusing on a red name (when there is one) and leaving the trash to casters.
The real problem here is that too many people focus on KCs, not what's best for everyone, and that's usually why they do not appreciate mobs being kited/running after a caster who'll nuke them.

Interesting assumption. What do you do when it soon becomes obvious that it isn't the case that everyone is just in a hurry to get the quest over with?

[Taters214]

If you want to solo a quest, you should not be in a party.
None of us want to watch you show off.

So then if if I'm on my caster I have to intentionally not kill mobs and not blow stuff to pieces??? Being a killing machine should not be held against me. That's the way I was rolled.

[Taters214]

I think the biggest problem with teamwork in DDO is the kill count and people's desire to lead it, even though it doesn't matter in the slightest when the XP and loot are awarded.

I played WOW for a couple months before it bored me to death, and its even worse. A players dps is displayed for everyone to see, including the abilities you use the most. This leaves you open to being picked apart for not being as uber as you should be or using abilities that another player thinks are inferior. And then there is the pressure to get you dps up out of the gutter... The game starts to feel too much like work after awhile.

[Qhualor]

Uhmmm... I've covered that in other threads... lol.

zerge stealth is certainly posible. (although the change/bug with invisibility and sound detection may hamper this somewhat)

it is possible, but healers don't enjoy party members splitting up. in a lot of threads like this, they jump into the discussion and say you are on your own if you run off ahead of the party.

I don't personally come across too many stealthy players that are able to run ahead of the party and be self sufficient and able to take down mobs on their own. usually they *ding or come back to the party with friends.

[Gremmlynn]

I probably should have been clearer. I was referring to some general quests in say, EH, but I think I should have mentioned epic levels, hence EDs were involved. DoTs can't compare to melee dps at that level.

Also, general trash threat is 0. This is also valid for EN, and I don't think I've ever heard anyone complaining about casters kiting in EE.

Really, 0? Strange, I find in a lot of the epic stuff I run, the trash it's nearly as hard as the boss but is always a lot squishier. In some cases, "Deal and the Demon" comes to mind, the boss has a threat of about 0, while the trash is the real threat (hard to do much while dancing and/or stunned) or anything with a drow priestess for a boss (they'll do the fingering for you while getting all their hps back, best to kill the trash first so as to only need to work through that pile on hp once).

[Gremmlynn]

So then if if I'm on my caster I have to intentionally not kill mobs and not blow stuff to pieces??? Being a killing machine should not be held against me. That's the way I was rolled.

Nothing wrong with killing stuff as long as you aren't dragging it away from the rest while you do it.

[Battlehawke]

It sounds like someone rally knew what they were doing and "stole" all your thunder".

[thesnoman]

I play both melee and ranged toons, but I've been playing my Sorc a lot more recently.

Tips for perpetual kiters (doesn't matter your class)

• The party together will likely do more damage thn you solo - Kite toward the party
• If you want to solo than solo and don't join an LFM - Soloing is easier due to dungeon scaling
• If you're pulling aggro and then running away - you must be too squishy for the content. Invest some time in building your toon to take a few hits so you can bring stuff to the party and then stand still for a few seconds.
• If you perpetually kite and "DING" more than once you deserve a ride in someone's backpack to the end of the quest.
• If you're running the party put "ZERG" in the LFM panel so everyone knows your intentions

Tips for Melees when dealing with a perpetual kiter:

• Let them do their thing - if they fail they "DING" and get a backpack ride to the end of the quest
• Most casters do their most efficient Damage/SP when you bring a mob to a choke point and cast AOEs - It works the same for melees unless YOU are playing like you're soloing (i.e. 1 monster at a time)
• Inefficient casters will eventually burn their blue bar - you can have your fun when they're piking because they have no more SP
• If you can't grab aggro on a melee you either need more intimidate or you aren't outputting enough damage and the kiter is likely doing more damage than you.
• If you're running the party, put "slow and steady" in the LFM panel so everyone knows your intentions.

Remember - these are tips, not rules set in stone. The best advise I can give is to adapt to the party and play as the majority want to play. If this is boring for you than you can always drop group and put up your own LFM. After all - leading an PuG is about letting people know what you expect and carrying it out. Of course part of this boils down to the group respecting the PuG leader's wishes and listening to them when instructions are given.

GL, Have fun, and enjoy the game the way YOU enjoy it...unless you're ruining the fun for someone else.

[bartharok]

I really dont like this,and i mainly play ranged, I think most people hate this way. Just wait until the melee get there,you cant kill as fast as they can,ranged dmg is just not that high in the game. Picking a different weapon if you like kiting them to you,something that stuns is nice. Because you are kiting them to YOU and not the group. Thats the real problem,running damage from you or from the melee is a lot smaller than when everybody is standing still. Look for things on ledges,or something you can one shot kill.
Or if you do this then have point blank shot and stand your ground,dont jump around forceing everybody to miss the mob because the mob is fallowing you now.

I only kite the mobs around if noone else is interested in attacking them. As soon as someone else decides to try to grab its aggro, i stop and let them. I dont like having aggro on ranged toons if i can avoid it.

[FlameDiablo]

Teamwork doesn't always means: "yea all togedar on that weak mob" sometimes means "split to complete quest faster" or "caster on trash and others on boss"... just do what yu can do best...
BTW if yu r melee around lvl 10 i got a bad news for yu: your targets r just breakables, but don't worrie on endgame or next TR yu'll be more useful

[Nitesco]

but don't worrie on endgame or next TR yu'll be more useful

Because of experience, +1 DC to tactics, +10 HP, 5% healing amp or something else? Past lives are weak and should be the last thing you pursue if you care at all about real power.

[wildbynature]

I just tell the Kiter that I don't chase. It's true that you can run into a few people who don't understand agro management and can't survive sitting by a melee for two seconds while he or she establishes agro. Those are usually the people who get a free backpack ride for a bit.

There are times when I'm at the front of the group and don't see the AOE cloud behind me, but when a sorc says, "hey, firewall behind you," I pay attention. Just like when the cleric says "masses on so and so," I make sure I'm in the masses or I drink silver flame pots. It all makes my life easier and more fun, and it keeps my party members happy because they're not wasting resources.

It would make sense than that when my barbarian says, "kite them towards me and let me establish agro," a good ranged toon or caster is going to let me establish agro so that they are free to do as much dps as they wish. If they are capable and want to solo content with five people piking, I'll be happy to let them. I still get xp, and I still get my chest.

[SoloPhalanx]

Interesting assumption. What do you do when it soon becomes obvious that it isn't the case that everyone is just in a hurry to get the quest over with?

I leave that group after the quest I am in is over.

Really, 0? Strange, I find in a lot of the epic stuff I run, the trash it's nearly as hard as the boss but is always a lot squishier. In some cases, "Deal and the Demon" comes to mind, the boss has a threat of about 0, while the trash is the real threat (hard to do much while dancing and/or stunned) or anything with a drow priestess for a boss (they'll do the fingering for you while getting all their hps back, best to kill the trash first so as to only need to work through that pile on hp once).

Drow priestesses are an exception. If you think that the trash in deal and the demon is a pain on EN/EH, then clearly we shouldn't be discussing this.

Because of experience, +1 DC to tactics, +10 HP, 5% healing amp or something else? Past lives are weak and should be the last thing you pursue if you care at all about real power.

Probably because they are able to TR into a casting class? :P

[RumbIe]

Without reading through the entire thread and all the posts and pages I'll assume what the OP means is when for example a FVS throws up a BB (I have an Evoker build FVS so I am familiar with the tactic, but really only use it solo) and grabs all the mobs aggro and starts running them through, meanwhile doing 150-300 damage on each end while melee are trying to chase them down. A classic example of this is the Iron Golem in Von5. It's not so much that me and him can do more than just him alone. It's me and him, plus the other 10 in our party can do more than just him alone.

It is this kind of kiting that is the issue. Of course there are times when taking the mobs and kiting them while others focus on a boss or pick them off is appropriate (looking at you LOB), but usually these tactics are discussed up front as opposed to having someone thing they can solo a random group of mobs faster than the whole group can knock them down.

I also don't have as much of an issue with a ranged (caster or bow) that grabs a single target out a group and kites them so long as there are others for me to focus on. In the example of an assassin swiping at air that's just bad luck that we both targeted the same mob. I mean maybe my polar ray didn't take him out on the first shot but I'm pretty sure before he reaches me my next shot will and considering the sp pool I have I'm none the worse for wear.

If I am going to aggro a group I usually toss up some cc (web or disco). Then I can drop some serious ice bombs on mobs. If I get a group of aggro by accident I usually stand still and take it until a melee pulls them off of me. If I can't kill them all myself it's much easier to shield up and drop a few reconstructs. By then the melee will have regained aggro and I can go back to picking them off one or two at a time or maybe my dragon's breath is recharged and I can wipe them all out. In short I know that unless I'm in a totally swamped group (all men for themselves) or an incompetent one, that standing still is better than running around like a chicken with his head cut off.

So I wouldn't say all kiting is bad. Situationally it is useful in a PUG, but it takes confidence and patience to learn to stand still for a bit and let someone else regain aggro if you've bitten off more than you can chew which happens to everyone form time to time.

[Qhualor]

Because of experience, +1 DC to tactics, +10 HP, 5% healing amp or something else? Past lives are weak and should be the last thing you pursue if you care at all about real power.

I agree that most PLs are not as great as they once were, but the way you worded this post made me lol.

[Luxgolg]

Because of experience, +1 DC to tactics, +10 HP, 5% healing amp or something else? Past lives are weak and should be the last thing you pursue if you care at all about real power.

Arent you the same guy from here: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=406952

[Gremmlynn]

Drow priestesses are an exception. If you think that the trash in deal and the demon is a pain on EN/EH, then clearly we shouldn't be discussing this.

Ah, then what should we be discussing? How to fight a boss with several arcanaloths stunning and dancing me and hoping some caster isn't waiting for their FoD to come off cooldown (or stunned and dancing himself) to do something about them?

[HalfORCastrator]

It's ok to be proud of yourself and confident in your abilities but...
When joining a group, please leave the solo tactic's for soloing.
Kiting everything around like no one else there is capable of dispatching the mobs quickly, or using "herding" mobtrain sprints
so YOU ALONE can blast everything at the end is not conducive to teamwork and takes a lot of the fun out of being in a group.

No offense intended. Just friendly advice.

Thank you for considering it.

This is where you're wrong. Just follow the caster to the end so you can attack mobs. It's teamwork to help the caster conserve SP by letting him use persistent/AOE spells on multiple mobs instead of trying to go 1 at a time.

[SoloPhalanx]

Ah, then what should we be discussing? How to fight a boss with several arcanaloths stunning and dancing me and hoping some caster isn't waiting for their FoD to come off cooldown (or stunned and dancing himself) to do something about them?

Circle of Death -> no more Arcanaloths

[Battlehawke]

If they are doing a good job at it and not getting themselves or the party killed and not being a "drain" on the healer, then its OK! It's boring for everyone else.

If they are placing everyone else in jeapardy, then they should stop and find a new tactic.

I've grouped with AA's that basically solo'd the quest and also with others that are constantly in my backpack.

If you have to keep rezzing them, then stop. If they are pretty much solo'ing the quest, then let them be.