Goodbye DDO

[ulgabi]

The problem is that nothing stops people hoarding HP. No penalty for having so high HP, and turbine cant seems to do anything about it.
In some other games (perhaps other genre) there are effects that dmg you by a % of the characters max HP.
So imagine a spell that does 10% of your characters max HP in fire dmg. Obviously if you have 400 hp its just 40 dmg, a ship buff will resist 30 out of it. But a tank with 1000 HP would take 100 dmg and pretty much no way to resist 75% of it.
Ofc this is very simple, and would need some work.
But the fact is that health hoarding is killing the game.

[Ryan220]

I agree, and apologize. I too have a healer I run in EEs a lot and it can get dicey. (But bards truly are easy buttons for trash )

No need to apologise - but Im sure the Divines reading will appreciate it.


Dicey is certainly the word - when the CC collapses in EE Belly or Reclaiming, as a healer its then that you're truely experiencing DDO at its most intense :-)

[anivaj]

I'm sorry to bring this up again, but that's most recent memory of running with you that I have...

I don't think there were any "cheesy" builds in our last EE Tor party: You, a necro wizard, a barb, a dps paladin, a fvs healer and a fighter tank (myself). The closest thing to a shiradi sorc were you. No juggs or such, no melee cleric, nothing... and we completed, and we only failed blue dragon because no one in that party was really experienced with the required tactics. I can still get my blue scales on EH, and named items don't really change -that- much.

In the remote chance I'll never be able to complete EE blue dragon I'll settle for EH versions of named items, or I'll buy/trade for an EE version if I really need one. Zero issues.

I was in Shiradi at that time, but for some reason nerve venom doesnt work on giants!!! I still had a 53 enchant DC in shiradi though. We completed because you melee carried me through it. You would have been better off filling my spot with another instakill arcane that is willing to chew through pots, or a usefull DPS with PRR. I didnt dance a single thing the whole time and was useless in my role of CC caster.

[FengXian]

The reason for this Wrunt is because most of these people that say everything is fine dont play DC arcanes in EE. They have toons that are not effected by the insane DCs yet. My clonk has a 67 DC stunning fist, so he could care less about the insane fort saves. My bard's fascinate works all the time with it's insane DC. People need to not post unless they actually play a DC arcane in EEs, otherwise they are talking about things they have no clue about that adds nothing productive to the conversation...

I undestand it feels bad to have a hard time on a 15 PL toon. First of all, I would try getting all the gear and other non-store DC stuff as Kmn suggested.

If that doesn't work, keep in mind that balance is constantly shifting. In the past insta-kills were useless in epics for example. Then they became so good that everything else looked useless in comparison.

Bottom line: I'm sure you're a good player, no need to quid for such a trivial issue, especially since you have a bard to CC epics, a monk with 67 DC etc...I'm sure you can find a way to make Sorrion viable too

[anivaj]

The problem is that nothing stops people hoarding HP. No penalty for having so high HP, and turbine cant seems to do anything about it.
In some other games (perhaps other genre) there are effects that dmg you by a % of the characters max HP.
So imagine a spell that does 10% of your characters max HP in fire dmg. Obviously if you have 400 hp its just 40 dmg, a ship buff will resist 30 out of it. But a tank with 1000 HP would take 100 dmg and pretty much no way to resist 75% of it.
Ofc this is very simple, and would need some work.
But the fact is that health hoarding is killing the game.

No what is killing the game is the disparity between high hp toons (melee and divines, especially in hp adding EDs) and medium hp toons (casters with no hp adding ED). The other thing is PRR. Divines and melee can get great PRR while arcanes get almost none without severely gimping your toon. Add this to the fact that CC no longer works and DPS arcanes pull a ton of aggro and you have yourself a divine and melee prefered environment.

[anivaj]

No need to apologise - but Im sure the Divines reading will appreciate it.


Dicey is certainly the word - when the CC collapses in EE Belly or Reclaiming, as a healer its then that you're truely experiencing DDO at its most intense :-)

EE Belly is a cakewalk for my clonk with EiN

[anivaj]

I undestand it feels bad to have a hard time on a 15 PL toon. First of all, I would try getting all the gear and other non-store DC stuff as Kmn suggested.

If that doesn't work, keep in mind that balance is constantly shifting. In the past insta-kills were useless in epics for example. Then they became so good that everything else looked useless in comparison.

Bottom line: I'm sure you're a good player, no need to quid for such a trivial issue, especially since you have a bard to CC epics, a monk with 67 DC etc...I'm sure you can find a way to make Sorrion viable too

I have all the gear and non-store DC stuff already. That with 15 PLs whould make me useful, but I am not. Maybe if nerve venom actually worked on giants like it should, I would be able to be what turbine wants me to be (Shiradi), but with it not working I am even useless in that ED.

My monk and bard are both 1st lifers, so I am not invested in them in any way. Sorrion is my main and with him being useless, I have no interest in playing anymore. I grinded Sorrion for close to three years and dont expect him to be a god in EEs, but at least not a waste of a slot in a party full of first lifers

With all the work I put in if my CC held 80% of the time without wasting so much sp I would not have an issue. It;s when it requires me to use 4-5 spells to have less than an 80% chance that disturbs me and makes me not want to play.

Again I dont want an easy button. I want to feel useful and not be pigeonholed into a set build or class to feel useful.

[Kabaon]

It is official. I am leaving DDO due to their idiotic movement towards inane end game. With tanks with over 1k hps and tons of PRR, they have to make things in EE hit for over 250 damage a hit to give any kind of challenge. Since I like to play arcanes that have about 600 hps and not much ability to get PRR, that means I either dont get hit or I am a soulstone. PRR and high hps have ruined it for arcanes.

Add onto the fact that they nerfed DC casters to useless at endgame. I have a 56 enchant DC and even after crushing despair, fear, AND an energy drain, my holds landed MAYBE 80% of the time. I didnt grind out 15 past lives to be a burden on my group in EE end game. Sorry Turbine, you have offically forced me out.

Every EE I have run either ends up being a tankfest or kitefest. If I wanted to play that way, I would have played WoW. I enjoyed DDO because it made me think and not just hack and slash. Trying to use spells that catered to the mob's lowest saves was fun and kept me on my toes. I do not have fun being forced into a Shiradi WF AM just to be useful (along that note, why are giants in Tor immune to nerve toxin? Just to nerf casters further? Last time i checked they are living creatures ).

I already gave my loot to my guildies, so sorry you can't have any Please wake up Turbine before you lose even more good players. Enjoy the power creep and how it makes you all eventually play the same builds to run EEs....

Or don't be a one trick pony? I'd say that's a problem there

[ulgabi]

No what is killing the game is the disparity between high hp toons (melee and divines, especially in hp adding EDs) and medium hp toons (casters with no hp adding ED). The other thing is PRR. Divines and melee can get great PRR while arcanes get almost none without severely gimping your toon. Add this to the fact that CC no longer works and DPS arcanes pull a ton of aggro and you have yourself a divine and melee prefered environment.

Those are all true, but behind them is the fact that turbine is trying to keep casters in check for high lvl content. Casters have the most tools to work with in the form of elemental, untyped unresistable dmg, and many many CCs.
That is why they are limiting caster lvls and such. Problem is that they aren't keeping health points in check, and thus a meele with 1000 hp can survive most thing with the help of a healer, while a casters low hp, defenses and limits wont win a fight even with a healers support.

[anivaj]

Or don't be a one trick pony? I'd say that's a problem there

Hmmm, so wizards being a one trick pony means being a DC caster? I honestly fail to see your logic...

[anivaj]

Those are all true, but behind them is the fact that turbine is trying to keep casters in check for high lvl content. Casters have the most tools to work with in the form of elemental, untyped unresistable dmg, and many many CCs.
That is why they are limiting caster lvls and such. Problem is that they aren't keeping health points in check, and thus a meele with 1000 hp can survive most thing with the help of a healer, while a casters low hp, defenses and limits wont win a fight even with a healers support.

A caster can win the fight, it's just ten times more resource intensive, ten times more aggravating, and they feel one hundred times as useless....

[Tolath]

i completely agree with you about the dc issues.
we have a huge problem atm.my 55 dc enchantment isnt enough either.alot of mobs are immune or save.
they increased their will save so high that atm its easier to finger than cc even giants.and sorry spamming no save dance and pwk or pws isnt so fun.

cc was an important part of a party since beta.now they remove that part.monks,fighters and others can cc pretty well because of higher dcs and mobs lower saves vs everything than spells.

about the dmg epic elite mobs can do i am fine.max hit was 341 for me so far.but i like the fact that the game started to be hard like the past when cap was 10 wiz was around 2-3 hits in elite quests and things are going back that way.but i got used to it at start of the game and i know how to play when i am 2-3 hits from a mob i dont think that any caster can play that way so not sure about it.
the fact that an epic wizard can die so easily doesnt make any sense at all.in dnd universe wizards are hard to die when they reach epic lvls.

even i am running epic elite quests daily.the fact that i have to play shadowdaner or shiradi is boring.
shadowdancer give me access to 2 instant kills.shadow manipulation and consume dc to them is 65 and isnt considered as spell so there is no hope for them to save it.but really an epic lvl wizard one of the most feared chars in dnd universe is using rogue abilities or random craps to beat the game?

[anivaj]

i completely agree with you about the dc issues.
we have a huge problem atm.my 55 dc enchantment isnt enough either.alot of mobs are immune or save.
they increased their will save so high that atm its easier to finger than cc even giants.and sorry spamming no save dance and pwk or pws isnt so fun.

cc was an important part of a party since beta.now they remove that part.monks,fighters and others can cc pretty well because of higher dcs and mobs lower saves vs everything than spells.

about the dmg epic elite mobs can do i am fine.max hit was 341 for me so far.but i like the fact that the game started to be hard like the past when cap was 10 wiz was around 2-3 hits in elite quests and things are going back that way.but i got used to it at start of the game and i know how to play when i am 2-3 hits from a mob i dont think that any caster can play that way so not sure about it.
the fact that an epic wizard can die so easily doesnt make any sense at all.in dnd universe wizards are hard to die when they reach epic lvls.

even i am running epic elite quests daily.the fact that i have to play shadowdaner or shiradi is boring.
shadowdancer give me access to 2 instant kills.shadow manipulation and consume dc to them is 65 and isnt considered as spell so there is no hope for them to save it.but really an epic lvl wizard one of the most feared chars in dnd universe is using rogue abilities or random craps to beat the game?

Didn't you know giants are extremely wise, hence the insane will saves?

[Ape_Man]

Didn't you know giants are extremely wise, hence the insane will saves?

The whole saves situation on the level 24 EEs needs to be completely re-examined by Turbine and adjusted.

Right now it's reminiscent of Johny Cochran standing next to a giant picture of Chewbacca.

[FengXian]

and sorry spamming no save dance and pwk or pws isnt so fun.

Oh? Maybe you want a game designed exactly around your preferences, but remember there's a good chunk of other people playing as well.

It's not like EVERY mob has too high will/fort. If anything, the low-fort (and low-will) types could get fixed a bit, but it's ok if giants have big saves.

I'm sorry but as long as I hear and see some people still being able to CC/instakill even w/o much resource consumption on EE, I will not believe the claims that saves are too high.

Yes, you should be using pwk/irresistible/pws if you can't CC efficiently otherwise. Yes, saves of some mobs could be toned down by 3-5 maybe? But they could also not be toned down and people could try to ADAPT a bit as we have always done.

"Irresistible is not fun"...ugh...

[Kabaon]

Hmmm, so wizards being a one trick pony means being a DC caster? I honestly fail to see your logic...

My wizard uses a mixture of dc casting, and damage spells. I've done tanking (not in EE of course but I find EE not extremely difficult, just more threat management), some dps, of course CC'ing and DC casting.

If that's ALL he is relying on is DC's, than yes. He is a one trick pony.

I'm not saying that's a bad thing, if it works for him, great, but I'm pretty sure the devs wouldn't want one way to handle a quest problem to be the only way. Hence they throw in mobs with higher dc's, or high spell pen. Or both. But usually the counterbalance to that is they have lower hp, so damage takes em out quickly. I've seen the opposite to be true as well.

[Kabaon]

even i am running epic elite quests daily.the fact that i have to play shadowdaner or shiradi is boring.
shadowdancer give me access to 2 instant kills.shadow manipulation and consume dc to them is 65 and isnt considered as spell so there is no hope for them to save it.but really an epic lvl wizard one of the most feared chars in dnd universe is using rogue abilities or random craps to beat the game?

What you fail to grasp is this isn't PnP D&D. Regardless of what you think, Turbine is still running an MMO, not a play session in your living room.

[WruntJunior]

The whole saves situation on the level 24 EEs needs to be completely re-examined by Turbine and adjusted.

Right now it's reminiscent of Johny Cochran standing next to a giant picture of Chewbacca.

It just does not make sense!

If Chewbacca lives on Endor, you must lower level 24 EE monster saves. >_>

[Charononus]

The whole saves situation on the level 24 EEs needs to be completely re-examined by Turbine and adjusted.

Right now it's reminiscent of Johny Cochran standing next to a giant picture of Chewbacca.

Here you go

[Uhtred_Stark]

Oh?

An arcane soloed tor, with all three dragons, on epic elite.

In draconic.


(gosh).

Shears of fate exploits don't count.

I think it's funny that a large number of casters are complaining, mainly because they actually need melee characters again and can't run around and lay waste to everything while having HPs and self healing. Great changes to the game, best thing to happen to ddo in a long time. I think they really nailed EE now, you need thinking, party cooperation and well built/geared characters - just as it should be. OK, some of the sub-bosses might have a few too many HPs (i'm looking at you pop) but then again everyone shouldn't have EE gear after one week.