Goodbye DDO

[Drallac]

It's EE its meant to be challenging, not just a mindless wading into each fight spamming 5 spells and moving on, EE Tor is a challenge, requires smart game play and tactics. I say make no changes, casters should be squishy and die easy, tanks should be able to just about survive end game mobs.

I love EE content on my cleric, he can survive because i designed him that way, I can't solo EE content, nor would I want to. I want to rebuild my squishy characters so they can actually defend themselves, this is the first time since I have started that I actually want to try to and develop my characters, before I never needed to.

EE should be ELITE, hard is easy, and I am happy with it how it is.

[kzeast]

It is very depressing when a first life WF AM shiradi is more effective in EE content then a 7 life max DC PM.

Its not about whether EE is easy or not. Its about whats the point of spending all the time grinding the past lives and aquiring the best gear when a easy to make first life toon can be more effective?

[Algreg]

EE is a fine example of how power creep can ruin content. When player characters reach a level of power a game wasn´t really designed for, you almost have to introduce adversaries of ridiculous power that can only be fought by exploiting their single weaknesses and computer brains, characters either work great or not at all, it is all pushed to extremes. Sadly, it seems power creep at high speed will continue in the near future. I am not saying EE is too hard or not doable by me, but just like oldschool epic, it is a totally different game - while the new tiers of epic below elite feel more like being in line with the game before level 20.

[FengXian]

1) not landing 100% of CC is very different from CC being useless (no, not crystal cove).

2) there are many people able to run EE, on every kind of build, from necro to enchantment focus, from rogue to tank. If you cannot, consider EH.

[ThreeEyedBob]

2) there are many people able to run EE, on every kind of build, from necro to enchantment focus, from rogue to tank. If you cannot, consider EH.

I would dispute your -many- allegation. There are a select few players who have the means, tenacity and endurance to grind through EE quests. You need the resources, the build and the mental endurance to do it.

[anivaj]

If ten bad guys are charging the group and 8 of them get held, I'm pretty sure you're not a burden on the group. In fact, I'd say you're the hero.

80% is pretty good.



How does your spells landing 100% make you think? I think landing 80% is extremely useful, and keeps on your toes dealing with the 20%.

I'm at 80% if I'm lucky and after wasting so much sp on 3-4 different debuffs it's ridiculous. Then after said debuffs guess who has the aggroof the remaining unhgeld 80% and dies in 3-4 hits? You guessed it the glass cannon wizard with minimal PRR and less than 1k hps

[anivaj]

How is that different from using Circle of Death, FoD, and Wail over and over and over in other EE content?

If you're quitting because EE is too easy using a certain playstyle, you should have quit long ago.

I was never big on the necro all day, every day bandwagon. The High Roads quests necro was all but useless also, but I became an enchant/conj AM and loved that even more than any PM I ever had. Controlling the battlefield for the melee to slaughter them was the most fun I ever had. With the end game changes I couldnt control a baby kobold, because Turbine would make it CR80 and have saves in the 80s

[NaturalHazard]

I'm at 80% if I'm lucky and after wasting so much sp on 3-4 different debuffs it's ridiculous. Then after said debuffs guess who has the aggroof the remaining unhgeld 80% and dies in 3-4 hits? You guessed it the glass cannon wizard with minimal PRR and less than 1k hps

Maybe running with another caster or even a spellsinger to help with the debuffing working as a team? I don't know if it will work but back before I left it worked pretty well I would take my spellsinger and it took a big load off the shoulders off people who had a first life DC CC and instant kill charactor. Don't know if it would be any use in the current content.

[Charononus]

I'm at 80% if I'm lucky and after wasting so much sp on 3-4 different debuffs it's ridiculous. Then after said debuffs guess who has the aggroof the remaining unhgeld 80% and dies in 3-4 hits? You guessed it the glass cannon wizard with minimal PRR and less than 1k hps

Man I'm sorry to here you're quitting assuming you actually do. However after your bragging about how you dominate ee with a dumped con toon a couple weeks ago you really don't generate sympathy when talking about how quickly you die.

[bartharok]

I would dispute your -many- allegation. There are a select few players who have the means, tenacity and endurance to grind through EE quests. You need the resources, the build and the mental endurance to do it.

Actually the thing you need is the feeling of EE being relevant to you. The rest come from that after a while.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Ok, My Wizard is barely lvl 21 and I have not taken her into new EEs yet.

But... I have an opinion anyway. (of course)

.. You are a Wizard. A Completionist? (15 past lives)
You should have really good DCs. and stats. everything actually.

But you also have a wide variety of spells you can cast.

If one tactic does not work well, use another.

There are three types of saves... For, Ref, and Wil.
There are spells that use each.

There are spells that debuff, and stack.

There are spells that have no save!

Really, if one thing does not work, do another.

The only limit I see right now is SP... and time I guess.

By having to cast multiple spells in every fight, you run out of SP real fast.

and if it takes multiple spells to disable monsters, the melee guys may not have left them alive long enough for you to do so.


But what I would do, is try Hypno, Crushing Despair, Mass Hold... and maybe something like Fear (will fear debuff if I cast that before the hold?)

I would be surprised if a completionist Wizard cannot get some results from this combo.

Next I would probably cast Ottos on key targets...as quick as I could.

Web has a different save.
I think solid Fog will give some results as well.

Try different spells fo rdifferent targets.

Fort saves against casters, will against melee.

Stuff like that.

If none of that really works, go for damage and hindering spels.
Clouds... even sleet storm.


Just do what you can.

If EEs are all you play... man I wish I had your troubles.....lol

I see almost no LFMs for EEs, and my best capable friends are not interested in running EEs.

Are there people out there (you) that really spend so much time in EEs that you get no enjoyment from the game? (because your character cannot do what he wants in EE)



Anyway, like I (and others) said before.
We just had a huge thread about EEs being too easy in thie game.

If you could really CC everything they would be too easy.

Personally I don't see why Turbine fails to put multiple lvls of challenge in EEs.
Put lots of lesser mobs that can be CCed with ease, and put more elite troops that cannot.

This would give people time to both use there powers and be faced with a challenge.. in the same dungeon...... this is far more fun than constant.... cast, fizzle, cast, fizzle.. dang I'm useless!

Much more fun to see cat, blast, cast, blast.... cast...fizzel...ooh.. this mob is a tough one.....


Anyway..... adapt, overcome..... that's part of the game too.
and Wizards should be able to do this the easiest.

[anivaj]

Epic Elites are NOT supposed to be easy! As a matter of fact they do require some tactics and teamwork. Even the heavy tanks with the big PRR'ss go down fast if they just sit there idly. It sounds to me like a lot of BS. You want to play a game built around YOUR toon, not on teamwork and thought! 80% on Epic Elite for landing spells is pretty good. Whats a good number for you? 100%? It sounds to me like you want an "Easy" button. Do you really want to play a game with NO challenge? Come on man! Pull up your skirt! Wipe away those tears! Get back in there and play the game!

Again 80% is after wasting enough sp to kill 3 mobs with a shiradi evoc AM. Not to mention said Shiradi gets so much aggro and has little PRR so good luck with that. I dont want an easy button, I want to have to think before casting, survey the field and find the best areas to cast, Allow the melee to get aggro and not die in 6 hits (which in EE can happen in under 1 second).

Heroic elites changed with the spellpower bug and due to all the deaths and 5% of the population liking it they never fixed it (which prolly sells tons of spirit cames). That happened around my 9th life, so I adapted and made my toons with evasion and good saves. Now even the saves are out of control, so I LRed my Clonk and made him into a 16 cleric/2 monk/2 pally. His saves are in the high 60s and he took all the GMoFs abilities to not even fail on a one. Guess how often he fails a save? ALL THE TIME!!! So now Turbine wants us to dump AC AND saves at endgame. Again, in it's current state this is not the kind of game i want to play.

Wake up Turbine and actuallly hire someone that exclusively plays the game as a consultant, or better yet discuss shanges like this with the players......

[MRMechMan]

Agreed. Shiradi sorc/wiz is the only viable way for the arcanes now in EE.

Oh?

An arcane soloed tor, with all three dragons, on epic elite.

In draconic.


(gosh).

[anivaj]

Ah, I missed the energy drain... good catch... my bad.

I'd suggest to the OP that he use a 10 SP Hypno... -3 to will save... That with a 56 Enchant will catch quite a few mobs... If not good enough, add crushing despair... Obviously, he can't energy drain every mob before a mass hold.

Actually as an enchant AM, I usually hit them with a single target resistable dance to dance them for over a minute for the melee to have their fun. As I said I have used fear, followed with crushing despair, then an energy drain on a giant numerous times in Tor EE and watched him save all day.

My hypnos cost me 1 sp heightened and I dont waste my time with that since the -5 from CD doesnt stack with hypno. In the high roads with a 56 enchant I could throw a 1 sp hypno then resistable dance them 80%+ of the time, in EE GH that does all of two things = jack and ****.

[anivaj]

We just had threads not even last month that EE was way too easy. Now we have threads stating that EE is too hard blah blah blah.

too funny

Really should find a nice middle ground here and not react to every swing of the pendulum in this game. It is amazing at what stepping back and playing just a couple hours a week does to the enjoyment factor of DDO.

The change in thought happened due to the type of toon I enjoy and the massive nerf to said toons in EE GH. I can carry noobs through any EEs prior to EE GH, including High Roads, but am nothing but a waste of a slot in GH...

[anivaj]

It's EE its meant to be challenging, not just a mindless wading into each fight spamming 5 spells and moving on, EE Tor is a challenge, requires smart game play and tactics. I say make no changes, casters should be squishy and die easy, tanks should be able to just about survive end game mobs.

I love EE content on my cleric, he can survive because i designed him that way, I can't solo EE content, nor would I want to. I want to rebuild my squishy characters so they can actually defend themselves, this is the first time since I have started that I actually want to try to and develop my characters, before I never needed to.

EE should be ELITE, hard is easy, and I am happy with it how it is.

Continue playing a self healing toon and you will never realize how hard it is for other classes. Clerics are and always have been easy buttons....

Looking at the toons in your sig, all your toons are easy buttons. Bards are king of EEs and clerics are a close second as the can build for PRR, Try playing a DC caster then come back and tell me how fun it was. Turbine should not be marginalizing a whole way to play the game that has been around forever.

[anivaj]

Maybe running with another caster or even a spellsinger to help with the debuffing working as a team? I don't know if it will work but back before I left it worked pretty well I would take my spellsinger and it took a big load off the shoulders off people who had a first life DC CC and instant kill charactor. Don't know if it would be any use in the current content.

If I was with a bard they would be using their insanely high fascinate DC to do my job anyways

[anivaj]

Man I'm sorry to here you're quitting assuming you actually do. However after your bragging about how you dominate ee with a dumped con toon a couple weeks ago you really don't generate sympathy when talking about how quickly you die.

That is my "fun" build. The toon I am talking about is a WF AM and does not have dumped con

[anivaj]

I would dispute your -many- allegation. There are a select few players who have the means, tenacity and endurance to grind through EE quests. You need the resources, the build and the mental endurance to do it.

This is what I am talking about. EEs are not fun, they are a grind. They are a kitefest, tankfest, healbot environment that makes people play cookie cutter builds to succeed.

[anivaj]

Oh?

An arcane soloed tor, with all three dragons, on epic elite.

In draconic.


(gosh).

Agreed. "DPS" sorc/wiz is the only viable way for the arcanes now in EE.

Fixed that for him Mech