TR/Epic free-mode

[Syllph]

How nice would it be if when you TRed you simply received the past life of your choosing. . .

What if you really wanted that +1 from monk, but you didn't really like playing a monk? You could level your fighter and upon TRing select the monk passive past life.

What if you really wanted to have +2 spell pen on your Sorcerer, but hated playing a wizard? You would TR your sorc and after speaking with Kruz you'd get a list and select wizard past life.

Now some of you may be thinking, but then I'd just level a sorc 1-20 for 20 lives and then swap to a fighter and be uber, or I'd just level 1-20 in class xyz and not learn anything.

To this I would respond: Did you have fun? Or do you actually have fun leveling a class you don't enjoy JUST to get that small TR bonus only to then TR back to the class you really enjoy? I know I hated Bard.

People already do this somewhat by leveling a sorc and using a few hearts of wood to remove enough sorc levels then swapping the level out for the class with the PL they want to make active:

And this I think is silly.

We should be able to improve our character while having fun not being forced into a class we don't enjoy. It robs the enjoyment from the game. I'd still TR just as often, I simply wouldn't need to play a class I hate.

We should be able to improve our toons while having fun.

The same principle would apply to Epic destinies. Let me get enough epic destiny XP to level up and choose which destiny receives the level up and the 5 action points.

This way I could stay in the destiny I enjoy.

I would still require the same amount of XP, the same amount of grind, except the grind would be fun (or rather less horrible) because I'd be in my favorite destiny, not a fighter in a caster destiny, and a caster in a fighter's.

Note: I have 23 past lives and level 5(6) in every destiny.

I'm not asking for an easy button, but rather a "fun" button.

I'm well aware what is required to grind this much and I'm also intimately aware that it is awesome to gain more power but it robs the fun of the game when I'm constantly forced to play my character in a way i don't want to play him when I choose to gain this power.

Yes, I'm not forced to do anything, but the bottom-line (literally): Can we bring back some of the fun in leveling?

[Musouka]

I am having enough fun playing the majority of my 20 levels as the class that I want a past life bonus from, then TRing. I'm sorry you are not having fun.

[Syllph]

I am having enough fun playing the majority of my 20 levels as the class that I want a past life bonus from, then TRing. I'm sorry you are not having fun.

That's the beauty of this. You could still level the old way and have fun too, that wouldn't change.

But I have to ask: do you really enjoy the current Epic destiny system? Do you like playing a caster destiny while on a melee toon? the Fate points are too good to simply ignore.

[Fefnir_2011]

Agreed in principle, but the whole point of a past life is as a "fun" little reminder that the character you play used to be a ranger and still loves squirrels. It would be a little sad if past lives lost their flavor in favor of people (like myself, admittedly) who feel their character just isn't complete with xyz past lives, but don't want to actually play those classes.

[Syllph]

I think it would be nice to give this as an option, you could always play the way we are currently but it would allow people who simply have a distaste for certain classes the ability to play without grudging.

[Relenthe]

I like the TR system as is. This is becauses of I want a paladin past life, I get to play this class which I wouldn't have played otherwise as I don't enjoy it for endgame, but for leveling I like playing it from different angles every time.

[Syllph]

I like the TR system as is. This is becauses of I want a paladin past life, I get to play this class which I wouldn't have played otherwise as I don't enjoy it for endgame, but for leveling I like playing it from different angles every time.

right, as I've said a few times now, that wouldn't change. You could still do this if you wanted to. But this option would give certain players the ability to now play classes they didn't want.

[toun]

So the only point would be to powergame warforged sorcs to cap to get the melee TRs?

I'm at life 11 of my completionist. While some lives were more enjoyable than others, needing to play different classes teaches you that class, and exposes play style variety that is necessary to break up tedium.

You don't *need* that past life, specially since the epic destinies give you such a better "bang for buck".

[MsEricka]

/not signed

I'm not asking for an easy button, but rather a "fun" button.

Dress it up as much as you want, you're still asking for an easy button.

[Hokiewa]

So the only point would be to powergame warforged sorcs to cap to get the melee TRs?

I'm at life 11 of my completionist. While some lives were more enjoyable than others, needing to play different classes teaches you that class, and exposes play style variety that is necessary to break up tedium.

You don't *need* that past life, specially since the epic destinies give you such a better "bang for buck".

Yup. Technically, you can do this but it takes more time and money.

[zeonardo]

I like the idea. Less grind is more fun. And as a player who will never be completionist in any toon because I will never roll barbs nor bards, I still think that the past life feat is tied to both the player and the character. The extra HP reminds you of the full rebarb days... the heal amp reminds you of the days you spent 2 hours to kill that self healing mob and while it hardly could scratch you, you could hardly hurt it also, because of your gimp pali self.

And now, just for fun, I would suggest that this PL feat selection should only be granted to capped clerics. Every player should roll a cleric once to understand why there are byoh lfms, long waits to fill a "healer" spot and what does heal amp means. Playing a cleric improves you in a way that is worth the feat selection suggested.

[Chai]

So the only point would be to powergame warforged sorcs to cap to get the melee TRs?

This.

There are already people who level 14 sorc 6 past life builds and then LR+5 to 9 sorc 11 past life and then TR afterward - simply because its easier to grind out a level 18 dungeon on elite on what is essentially a level 14 sorc than it is to do so on a 18 or 19 melee.

[Syllph]

So the only point would be to powergame warforged sorcs to cap to get the melee TRs?

I'm at life 11 of my completionist. While some lives were more enjoyable than others, needing to play different classes teaches you that class, and exposes play style variety that is necessary to break up tedium.

You don't *need* that past life, specially since the epic destinies give you such a better "bang for buck".

and

This.

There are already people who level 14 sorc 6 past life builds and then LR+5 to 9 sorc 11 past life and then TR afterward - simply because its easier to grind out a level 18 dungeon on elite on what is essentially a level 14 sorc than it is to do so on a 18 or 19 melee.

I said that specifically in the OP.

Now some of you may be thinking, but then I'd just level a sorc 1-20 for 20 lives and then swap to a fighter and be uber, or I'd just level 1-20 in class xyz and not learn anything.

To this I would respond: Did you have fun? Or do you actually have fun leveling a class you don't enjoy JUST to get that small TR bonus only to then TR back to the class you really enjoy? I know I hated Bard.

People already do this somewhat by leveling a sorc and using a few hearts of wood to remove enough sorc levels then swapping the level out for the class with the PL they want to make active:

And this I think is silly.

-snip-

Yes, I'm not forced to do anything, but the bottom-line (literally): Can we bring back some of the fun in leveling?

[Chai]

I said that specifically in the OP.

But then tried to deny that this would be handing every completionist wanna be the easy button.

People should play other classes because they have fun playing other classes or dont play other classes because they dont have fun doing so. No one should be building a powerful melee toon by grinding a buncha sorc lives however. It is the easy button.

[Cyr]

Well I certainly would not object to playing my final build (18 art/2 monk) every life on my TRs.

It would not be that drastically different then the leveling framework I use currently though (artificer 6/rogue 6-7/PL class 7-8).

Basically it would mean BB and rune arm shots being better with a little less ranged dps.

Edit: I never really understood the logic of designing something to incentivice playing you are not as excited to play.

[Fefnir_2011]

I think it would be nice to give this as an option, you could always play the way we are currently but it would allow people who simply have a distaste for certain classes the ability to play without grudging.

I don't like grinding epics and raids to get the best gear. I think I should have the option to turn every item that drops in a chest into a named item. But it's an option, so it doesn't affect anyone but me.

Certain things (Past lives, pieces of gear, even experience) have an inherent "worth" in DDO. It is a part of the game that you spend currency (in most cases, the currency of your time) to obtain these things, and what you suggest would reduce the worth of past lives and cheapen XP gain. If you can get any past life by leveling any class, a few things might happen:

1) the 1-20 game will almost exclusively be made up of players leveling whatever flavor du jour is easiest to level. This could have a negative impact on end game as the variety of classes goes downward, since the only people who play fighters for example will be those who enjoy playing that class and intend that class as their final build.

2) with past lives being easier to get, Turbine will either reduce what past lives do or increase difficulty in all content. The former will make past lives mean even less. The latter will widen the gap between haves and have-nots even more.

3) Turbine might even try to keep past lives meaningful by either nerfing whichever class is being run most in the 1-20 game, or reducing XP across the board. The first will upset anyone who's leveling a class and logs in the next day to find out that they're no longer that good at leveling solo. The second would upset any player who isn't capped.

I realize you say because it's an option it won't affect anyone but the people who choose to use it, but since when has anything in DDO worked that way?

[SirValentine]

I think the OP got some of you. BTW, OP, +1.

I interpreted this as an amusing and clever play on the whole "I want the benefits of levelling up one Epic Destiny while USING a different one!" thread.

If you want a class's past life, play the class; if you want an ED's benefits (for twists or fate points or whatever), play the ED. It is the same. Anything else really is an easy-button give-away.

[Uska]

If I understand you right I have to say hell no if you haven't played the class how can you expect to take the past life? That's kind of the whole point.

[varusso]

While I agree that grinding out some of those lives sucks, it would still be a mistake (for many reasons) to allow the single-class zerg to completionist.

Most of the folks who "cheat the system" using the +5 hearts are folks who have already done the "regular" TR route and dont actually need to learn about those classes anyway. They are simply looking for a faster way to grind out the PLs. Obviously, this suggestion would cater to them, but it would also end up hurting the folks who actually should go through their PLs the hard way.

It does everyone good to play through other classes. Not just so they can "learn their lesson" but also because it gives them a chance to play out a different type of toon than their comfort zone, and perhaps discover that they liked that class much more than they expected. This is something they wouldnt experience if they were allowed to opt out and just run to cap with the same class over and over.

The point to the PLs is that your toon itself learned something from those lives, and remembers a bit of it when they reincarnate. The same holds true for the player behind the keyboard -- or at least it is supposed to.

/notsigned

[goodoldxelos]

Disagree, i'd prefer maybe if you had a multiclass within 2 levels of each other. For example 6 paladin 8 fighter 6 ranger. Instead of being forced into fighter pastlife you could choose any of the 3.