You need this DC to join

[Ilindith]

Just carry a Dreamspitter or use any other item with +2 Ehcantment DCs. Problem solved.

[Kages]

OP, you can't fix some peoples stupidity. 39 is respectable (you forgot dreamspitter/eardweller +2) but I forgive. Anyways, come roll with us, we do it the right way. He'll, tr sorc, have a 34/35 dc and come. Doesn't take a elitist to get stuff done, just good players.

[Kmnh]

snipped

It's LoB. It's the newest raid, and most people don't know it that well yet. No one will ask you to bring loot from LoB to an LoB run, but I can see why people ask for older gear to join, especially if they don't know you.

If you don't have the gear yet, keep trying to join, People will let you in if they have a good caster already, or try to make it work with two borderline ones.

+7 int items are not hard to find, and neither are yugo pots, those should be your first priority.


I'm sure it's possible to do that raid with a dc of 40 - I did it with 41. But it means using debuffs everywhere and a lot of quick movement and clickie juggling. I don't expect a new caster to do that well, unless it's someone I know and trust.

[TheDearLeader]

39 is respectable (you forgot dreamspitter/eardweller +2) but I forgive.

Just carry a Dreamspitter or use any other item with +2 Ehcantment DCs. Problem solved.

I'ma just leave this here...

Let's see what enchant DC I can have with that now:
10 Base
15 Int modifier
9 Heigntened Spell
1 Spell focus
1 Greater spell focus
1 Archmage secondary focus
2 Enchantment crafted item
_____________
39 Total

39 includes a +2 Enchantment Focus Item already.

+7 int items are not hard to find, and neither are yugo pots, those should be your first priority.

I'm sure it's possible to do that raid with a dc of 40 - I did it with 41. But it means using debuffs everywhere and a lot of quick movement and clickie juggling. I don't expect a new caster to do that well, unless it's someone I know and trust.

• He's already addressed Yugo pots - and not wanting to lose Fort.
• Distributed is not a "new caster".
• Why Enchantment in LoB? It's not like he's holding them. My Spellsinger goes in with a DC 41 - woo. Single-Target Dance, Dancing Ball. Nice, convenient, but necessary? No.

[Kmnh]

I'ma just leave this here...



39 includes a +2 Enchantment Focus Item already.

• He's already addressed Yugo pots - and not wanting to lose Fort.
• Distributed is not a "new caster".
• Why Enchantment in LoB? It's not like he's holding them. My Spellsinger goes in with a DC 41 - woo. Single-Target Dance, Dancing Ball. Nice, convenient, but necessary? No.

I figured "new" because he's worried about joining other people's raids. "Old" casters usually start their own, get invited by friends, or can get into any good party by sending a tell to the leader

Enchantment is way easier to land on those assassins and artificers than kill spells. They also have lower cooldowns.

Personally, I've noticed that the big step to make the waves of trash easier is to pass displacement, just like you do on VoD. Maybe even stoneskin. People get in more trouble from the damage spikes than from the sustained damage.

[Hendrik]

OP, you can't fix some peoples stupidity. 39 is respectable (you forgot dreamspitter/eardweller +2) but I forgive. Anyways, come roll with us, we do it the right way. He'll, tr sorc, have a 34/35 dc and come. Doesn't take a elitist to get stuff done, just good players.

QFT!

Player skill, familiarity with the strength/weakness of your team, and a good sense of humor will trump all.

[twiliteslayer02]

OP, you can't fix some peoples stupidity. 39 is respectable (you forgot dreamspitter/eardweller +2) but I forgive. Anyways, come roll with us, we do it the right way. He'll, tr sorc, have a 34/35 dc and come. Doesn't take a elitist to get stuff done, just good players.

this.


I see a huge chunk of players putiing up posts about not having this stat or that up to someone elses par.
Back in the day when we played pen and paper, most of the fun i had came out of a missed dice roll, and the concequences of it, in essence the role play.
This game is still very similar to that, just because your dc for greater command is only 29 doesnt mean it WONT go off on an epic mob, just that it wont go off EVERY time.

40+dcs you can still roll a 1, but, it's your toon build it your way.

For those who dont meet the mark, dont take it personally, and realize that it may not be that they dont want YOU, they just want the DC, alot is missed by asking for a specific stat, like , for instance , how the player behind it handles his/her toon, but the person behind the lfm, may have his or her own idea of how they want to run the quest and just not have the patience to screen everyone out there.

When in doubt, make your own lfm, and learn from your mistakes/successes.

[Kages]

39 includes a +2 Enchantment Focus Item already.

I know who Dis is and it was a joke, would you rather I put "quotes" around "you forgot"? I was making fun of the fact it came up several times in multiple ways.

This being the point.

• Why Enchantment in LoB? It's not like he's holding them. My Spellsinger goes in with a DC 41 - woo. Single-Target Dance, Dancing Ball. Nice, convenient, but necessary? No.

I agree very much, with Abashai cookies, Yugo pot, store pot, bard song, ship buff ~ Kages Enchant DC is 48 or 49 (forget). Is this necessary? NO~! There is no reason for DC's this high unless you don't know what you are doing. I'll go in with my non buffed DC's and do just fine without worry. The bigger problem you see is people not having the spell pin or not even carrying web when needed. But this is turning off topic and a completely seperate rant.
/rantoff before it gets too far.

QFT!

Player skill, familiarity with the strength/weakness of your team, and a good sense of humor will trump all.

I would tell you I love you but it just seems weard saying that to someone you know isn't wearing pants.

this.


I see a huge chunk of players putiing up posts about not having this stat or that up to someone elses par.
Back in the day when we played pen and paper, most of the fun i had came out of a missed dice roll, and the concequences of it, in essence the role play.
This game is still very similar to that, just because your dc for greater command is only 29 doesnt mean it WONT go off on an epic mob, just that it wont go off EVERY time.

40+dcs you can still roll a 1, but, it's your toon build it your way.

For those who dont meet the mark, dont take it personally, and realize that it may not be that they dont want YOU, they just want the DC, alot is missed by asking for a specific stat, like , for instance , how the player behind it handles his/her toon, but the person behind the lfm, may have his or her own idea of how they want to run the quest and just not have the patience to screen everyone out there.

When in doubt, make your own lfm, and learn from your mistakes/successes.

Well said and to the point.

[sephiroth1084]

When people ask me that, I just say (with an arrogant twinge), "Enough." Then they take/keep me or they don't.

[Ilindith]

I TRed into a paladin cause I was a HORRIBLE caster with bad DCs! True story!

[TheDearLeader]

Enchantment is way easier to land on those assassins and artificers than kill spells. They also have lower cooldowns.

I wonder the truth of this statement. I have a Sorc I bring in with a DC 36 Finger, and I specifically target the Assassins and Artificers with it. Does it always work? No. But it works enough for me to keep doing it.

I know who Dis is and it was a joke, would you rather I put "quotes" around "you forgot"? I was making fun of the fact it came up several times in multiple ways.

It was early, and internet sarcasm doesn't travel well.

When people ask me that, I just say (with an arrogant twinge), "Enough." Then they take/keep me or they don't.

I don't agree with this scenario, either.

Practical example of why:
Doing HoX Hard. Get an "Intimitank". When we ask him how high it is, that is exactly what he did. He arrogantly said "Enough". And left it at that. We're like, "Okay..." not really pleased about it, but whatever. It means we can start filling slots and getting the raid moving.
We wipe gloriously. Come to find out afterward his buffed Intim was like a 34 or something.

I see no problem wanting to be well-informed about the capabilities of your fellow teammates. It allows you to formulate strategies based upon their strengths/weaknesses. Being left in the dark, however, leaves you little to do.

[sephiroth1084]

I don't agree with this scenario, either.

Practical example of why:
Doing HoX Hard. Get an "Intimitank". When we ask him how high it is, that is exactly what he did. He arrogantly said "Enough". And left it at that. We're like, "Okay..." not really pleased about it, but whatever. It means we can start filling slots and getting the raid moving.
We wipe gloriously. Come to find out afterward his buffed Intim was like a 34 or something.

I see no problem wanting to be well-informed about the capabilities of your fellow teammates. It allows you to formulate strategies based upon their strengths/weaknesses. Being left in the dark, however, leaves you little to do.

That's fair, and that does come up on occasion. Part of it, I guess, is that I resent the implication that things can't get done without ideal party make-up. Even a caster with low DCs can get eDA done using other tactics. I've gone in there without any CC caster.

In your example, the problem wasn't that he said he could do it, but that there wasn't communication about what he needed to be doing and how. I guess it's the other side of the same coin, but if you had mentioned that if he couldn't stick the dogs/mama with intim, he could use a Solid Fog clicky, and did he have one, I bet the raid would have gone better...unless he was just a complete tool, which is possible.

I chalk that up with asking for links to the weapons you're using. I prefer simply asking whether you can do what needs to be done, and a simple yes or no will suffice. And sometimes I just take the 12 people and go, and remind them to bring out the DR breakers when we're on the way, and sometimes we end up with someone who doesn't have. Different styles I guess.

[die]

question?.. if you need a dc of 42 too have the spell land isnt it .. up too the l4eader too make sure he's team is able too achieve this number?

make's sense too me .. altho i think those are some high number my caster cant reach lol i stillhave like a 34 int and chr i think lol i guess no LOB raids for me.. and i still need yugo favor rrr tough when you solo every thing too get that good gear .. in order too do those harder quests solo.

[TheDearLeader]

That's fair, and that does come up on occasion. Part of it, I guess, is that I resent the implication that things can't get done without ideal party make-up. Even a caster with low DCs can get eDA done using other tactics. I've gone in there without any CC caster.

In your example, the problem wasn't that he said he could do it, but that there wasn't communication about what he needed to be doing and how. I guess it's the other side of the same coin, but if you had mentioned that if he couldn't stick the dogs/mama with intim, he could use a Solid Fog clicky, and did he have one, I bet the raid would have gone better...unless he was just a complete tool, which is possible.

I chalk that up with asking for links to the weapons you're using. I prefer simply asking whether you can do what needs to be done, and a simple yes or no will suffice. And sometimes I just take the 12 people and go, and remind them to bring out the DR breakers when we're on the way, and sometimes we end up with someone who doesn't have. Different styles I guess.

My story was very truncated. I'm pretty sure we specifically asked if he'd be okay Intimi-locking Xyzzy down, and he said yes. If we'd known his numerical score, yes, we could have planned for the Solid Fog method. Instead, he didn't feel like sharing, and obviously was not intelligent enough to actually look up the number for what we were asking him to do.

I'm actually fine with asking people what weaponry they're using - then again, I'm a crafter. Don't have DR busters? We can probably fix that. If not before the raid, then certainly afterward. There's multiple people in my own guild that I've tried advertising my services to, and few take me up on the offer.

I think in general, it's about setting a boundary between bringing everyone who is level-appropriate, and those who actually care to cover the basics. Like the guy who never has Curse Pots for VoD, or the Healer who won't carry scrolls, and won't use them even if you buy them and trade them to him, the caster who screams "I'm not a buffbot!" when requested to use any spell that hadn't already intended to use, or the Barbarian who uses Terror for each and every Mob in game... there are those people.

But this is getting off topic. The point is DC 39 is fine. Maybe you have to spam an extra spell, like Crushing Despair, to lower their saves. Woo. That's pots you as a caster spend, not any burden upon the party.

[Jandric]

i generally dont pug with my wizard because my CC sucks despite being a second life, past life wizard, with a decent amount of gear. its partially my fault because i went necro focus, built the character for scroll farming, and am pretty rusty at the whole CC thing.

but people seem to still want the whole mass hold, beat on mobs, mass heal, mass hold, beat on mobs, mass heal, etc method while running epics. no matter that i can insta-kill all those annoying archers and casters pretty easily (and thereby out dps a lot of melees and save on healing sp), but i know better to try to join a pug saying 'hey i cant CC, but my necro is pretty good. youll need another caster if you want really solid mass holds and stuff, but i can bring a lot of offensive casting and insta-kills'.

insta-kills are a form of CC when used tactically and it brings high DPS with it. i realize a lot of epics do require some CC various situations and it makes things run more smoothly a lot of the time, but let me fill a dps role!

I laughed /groan every time I see an LFM for Epic Big Top 40+ CC required.

I think that some people only know how to do it a certain way and refuse to try anything else. It can be kind of fun joining with my PM that has DC 43 Necro and DC 41 Enchantment, though. Start off with a mass hold, then start throwing wails on the next mob and ask him if he wants me to switch back.

[Kages]

My story was very truncated. I'm pretty sure we specifically asked if he'd be okay Intimi-locking Xyzzy down, and he said yes. If we'd known his numerical score, yes, we could have planned for the Solid Fog method. Instead, he didn't feel like sharing, and obviously was not intelligent enough to actually look up the number for what we were asking him to do.

I'm actually fine with asking people what weaponry they're using - then again, I'm a crafter. Don't have DR busters? We can probably fix that. If not before the raid, then certainly afterward. There's multiple people in my own guild that I've tried advertising my services to, and few take me up on the offer.

I think in general, it's about setting a boundary between bringing everyone who is level-appropriate, and those who actually care to cover the basics. Like the guy who never has Curse Pots for VoD, or the Healer who won't carry scrolls, and won't use them even if you buy them and trade them to him, the caster who screams "I'm not a buffbot!" when requested to use any spell that hadn't already intended to use, or the Barbarian who uses Terror for each and every Mob in game... there are those people.

But this is getting off topic. The point is DC 39 is fine. Maybe you have to spam an extra spell, like Crushing Despair, to lower their saves. Woo. That's pots you as a caster spend, not any burden upon the party.

Thought food, anyone hungry?

[Blackbird]

Why don't you want to use Yugo pots on your WF wizard? Yes, it's -50% fort but a WF has innate 25% fort so if you have HF on you only are down to 75%. I use them on my WF Archmage all the time and never have an issue.

My first life WF Archmage (Silviah) has a 43 self/ship buffed enchantment DC. She is enchantment first, necro second. I do not land every spell I cast. It does make a difference. I do have epic gear and have eaten a +4 tome. Is 43 absolutely necessary? No, but it helps. I would say 40 is a realistic number if you use debuffs. You could get that with a Yugo pot. You could go with that as you work for your epic docent of the diaboloist and other epic gear. You don't need enchantment DCs to run ToD for a +4 tome. For a lot of my lesser-geared characters I run my better geared characters (healers aren't terribly equipment dependent) to get the seals/shards for the others. I've traded for a lot of scrolls as well. Yes, it does take work/effort but it should.

[Elixxer]

welcome to epics as a caster. 39/40 dcs are good for house P/D.

You are joking right? 39/40 is for house P epics? I've done it fine with someone at 32.(When is was the masshold fest) Did they get their saves boosted?

[sephiroth1084]

You are joking right? 39/40 is for house P epics? I've done it fine with someone at 32.(When is was the masshold fest) Did they get their saves boosted?

Yes.

[ColinQ]

I've dragged a sorc thru LOB recently who had just returned to the game and did not have any enhancements at all. But he did have great working knowledge of how to make his CC work.

Rev finally came back from his honeymoon?

PS: Sor only miss 2 DCs (from 3x CHA enh) w/o enhancement right?