Gear Checking

[AmatsukaIncarnate]

Edit: Due to people's comments about the nature of this guide I'm trying to make, I'd like to make VERY VERY clear that the outlines I have in this guide are NOT requirements to run X quest. Consider them a recommendation. Many people do not have the gear I list and still do absolutely fine in many epic quests and more. The player behind the character means more to the character than the character's gear. THAT SAID. Gear is helpful to EVERYONE no matter what their ability to play the game. For players who don't understand why they're dying in endgame quests or why other people can contribute so much more to a party than they, this guide can advise them what gear they should be looking for.

My goal in this is to outline useful gear that everyone could find very helpful (note: I did not say essential ) in the quests that they run in addition to rank epic quests into difficulty tiers so that players who are new to epics can "build from the bottom up" so to speak.

Enjoy and please keep things civil

My friend who plays WoW (or wow why do i play this game? ) was telling me about how different raids serve as "gear checks".

"Gear Check" just means that if you don't have necessary gear, chances are you aren't contributing as much as you SHOULD be.

So I'd like some help getting a guide together about what it means to be sufficiently geared for a quest. I think this will help newer players understand what is expected of them in quests and what items they should have in order to fulfill the expectations. AKA why a fresh 20 should NOT be clicking that LFM to epic LOB for example
Furthermore, each raid has many different ROLES which should be covered individually. So as an example template...

[QUEST NAME]
-----Also Known As: -name-
-----Recommended LVL: (for the different difficulties N/H/E)
-----ROLE: -name-
-----GEAR: -Listed Items-
-----HP/SP/TO-HIT: (Probably not, but a BASE line might be helpful.)
-----Explanation: (Reasoning why certain items are strongly recommended and why you would want a certain amount of HP/SP)

The quests I have in mind for this guide are raids and epic quests because these are the basis of end game besides TRing (if you consider that end game).

So to start, I'd like to order quests from least gear intensive to most gear intensive. (and if I'm missing any other quests you think should be in this list, let me know! ) I'm also going to list lower level raids because they should also serve as gear checks as someone levels up!

Remember, this is about GEAR. Player skill and the ability to LISTEN and follow direction should simply be a given in difficult quests. While player skill can make up for a lack of equipment, this guide aims to show what should be expected of a person running a certain quest.

My experience at TRUE end game (Elite TOD and Epic LOB and ect) is very very limited so I'd like help from people who are have experience there and let us know what is required at the very top level. Same thing with epics because I don't run many different epics...In other words, this guide will help me too

Consider this an expansion of Aranticus's fantastic guide "Help! Am I Raid Ready?". I plan to add epic quests in order of difficulty as well.

(Non-level 20 content: Listed by quest level then gearing)
[Chronoscope]

[Tempest Spine]

[Twilight Forge]

[Vault of Night]

[Zawabi's Revenge]

[Reaver's Fate]

[The Shroud]

[Hound of Xoriat]

[A Vision of Destruction]

[Ascension Chamber]

[Tower of Despair]

(EPICS - Need help from community here for ordering these...)
Easy Epics...(Or in other words, fresh level 20s with little raid loot and maybe a single GS item)
[Phiarlan Carnival]
[VON 1 and 2]
[Bargain of Blood]
[Red Fens, excluding Into the Deep]

Medium Epics...(some epic gear, raid loot expected, Multiple GS items, most epics will fall in this category)
[Wiz-King]
[Offering of Blood]
[Plane of Night]
[Zawabi's Revenge]
[Against the Demon Queen]
[Any epic quests not listed in EASY EPICS or ELITE EPICS]
Elite TOD might be listed under here as well as other difficult quests...

Elite Epics...(Truly reserved for the best of the best gear wise)
Lord of Blades
hmm maybe this category is a little narrow.

In any case, I'd like to hear what everyone has to say and I'll edit this post with people's suggestions!
Thanks for reading

[AmatsukaIncarnate]

In case I need another post
[reserved]

IDEAS/DISCUSSIONS + my comments
- Adding lower level gear progression is helpful
- This guide is obsolete to DDOwiki and guides already made
.// I love DDOwiki and all the guides on the forum, but I have yet to really see any articles that really try to order endgame quests in any kind of difficulty order. For players new to epic, I'm absolutely certain this will help players get introduced to epics in a kinder fashion. This guide will attempt to do that as well. Furthermore, it gives newer players ideas about what gear that their character, regardless of build and player ability, can work towards attaining to improve their character.
- Having gear recommendations will mean more elitism
.// I can't make it clear enough that recommendations are JUST recommendations. If people want to post LFMs that say "Link your BBs", then they are the ones at fault and not the source of the information. People get by with what other people may call "substandard" but gear/stats does NOT define a character like the player behind the character does. All the uber gear in the world won't save a character if they can't understand why they should have brought curse pots to a VoD.
- I am not qualified to write this guide
.// This may or may not be true. However, I consider myself competent to see a good idea when it is presented and I am willing to listen to other people's input. I really do want this to be a helpful guide and I'd like as much opinion on the matter as possible.
- More gear in DDO means strengthening by increments as opposed to other games where gear can increase damage output by factors of three and higher
.// This doesn't take into account that other games scale monsters exponentially as a result. The difference between having an Epic Marilith Chain or RDS armor to those who don't is actually far greater than one might expect. Lit IIs versus holy burst of pure good...bloodstone vs not bloodstone...GFL plus tier 3 GS HP item vs not...gear may not multiply one's output but to call in insignificant, imo, is not right.
- May actually be info light because "good to have" items are few
.// True. However, this guide is more than about the gear (although that is what is being fixated on at the moment). I'd also like to order endgame quests in order of difficulty and expectations for how difficult a quest might be to someone who has never done an epic. Between these two objectives, I think there is enough content for a great guide

[Airgeadlam]

Well... I think your intention here is good. A guide is always nice, but this thread has some danger in it as well. I mean.. Gear for Tempest Spine? Really? More drama coming!

Anyway, +1 for the helpful intention.

[AmatsukaIncarnate]

Well... I think your intention here is good. A guide is always nice, but this thread has some danger in it as well. I mean.. Gear for Tempest Spine? Really? More drama coming!

Anyway, +1 for the helpful intention.

haha I see your point...
Hmm maybe I'll re-think this and edge it for level 18 and up.
Up till that point, I think gearing is fairly common sense.

I really meant this for level 20s though where players can figure out how useful they can expect to be in a certain quest.

Any other opinions are welcome

[Brennie]

haha I see your point...
Hmm maybe I'll re-think this and edge it for level 18 and up.
Up till that point, I think gearing is fairly common sense.

I really meant this for level 20s though where players can figure out how useful they can expect to be in a certain quest.

Any other opinions are welcome

Some lower level checks are a good idea. Heavy fort, for example, can be slotted by 9, probably should be slotted by 12, and I'd consider 15 on the very very outside.

[gerardIII]

Gear for Tempest Spine?

Grease clicky.

[AmatsukaIncarnate]

Some lower level checks are a good idea. Heavy fort, for example, can be slotted by 9, probably should be slotted by 12, and I'd consider 15 on the very very outside.

Okay. I think I will add in some stuff for lower level characters after all. I think it'll be better for it to be more generic as from levels 1-15 are not so gear intensive. Will contain content about things such as +X stat items, Fortification, Potions every character SHOULD have, and ect. IMO, most people can expect to get to 17 without a problem without any named items.

Also, I think for end game content, I'm going to NOT do things based on level first, gear second like I have it in the OP. I think its preferable to simply divide gear checking into three or maybe four "Tiers"

17-fresh level 20 characters [Tier 0//Adventurer]
-----+6 stat items, 1-2 Tier 2 GS items, some raid loot that may or may not be best in slot
----- These characters should have no problem contributing to Shroud, HoX, and VoD on normal (Note: TRs under 20 may qualify for Tier 1 gearing)

Moderate geared level 20s [Tier 1//Champion]
-----Randomly generated gear is kept to a minimum, +6 items, 3-4 Tier 2~3 GS items (at least 1 of which are fully upgraded), valuable raid loot acquired (Chattering Ring for AC builds, Madstone Boots, Tharne's Goggles, Head of Good Fortune, Litany of the Dead ect.), Event epic gear, DR breakers, MAYBE an epic item
-----This is probably where most players are. These characters are well prepared for easier epics such as EBOB and ECarnival and can contribute.

Well geared level 20s [Tier 2//Hero]
-----No randomly generated gear, +6 items but +7 items can be expected, 3-5 Tier 3 GS items (perhaps a couple tier 2 for niche swaps), several epic items, many best in slot items
-----These characters can be expected to be well worth their slot in any quest in the game. Harder epics such as EChrono, ECoF, EDA are well within the grasp of these Tier 2 characters.

Top tier, elite geared level 20s [Tier 3//Legend]
-----Characters in this tier may not have any items they want anymore. The goal here is to dominate the existing raids and to trivialize game content. These characters are the kind who might say something like "ESoS? Hah! I use those as my throwing daggers!"
-----This tier is really a character at their peak. Not much to say about this really.

I will post a draft when I have time. Thanks for the input all! This guide should really help a lot of people out especially with more and more players with capped characters and the content becoming less and less forgiving!

[Chilldude]

My friend who plays WoW (or wow why do i play this game? ) was telling me about how different raids serve as "gear checks".

WoW needs gear checks because end game content is impossible without a certain level of gear. Not extremely difficult, impossible. Raid bosses in WoW have enrage timers, that is, after a certain amount of time has passed in the fight they go super nova on the entire raid and everyone dies. Your healers could be swimming in pools of mana, but the entire raid is going to die.

DDO isn't WoW. I don't think people should try to turn it into WoW. We need civility more than we need gear checks in my opinion.

[Musouka]

DDO definitely isn't WoW.

We get +7 stat items at max, with +1 and +2 exceptionals.

However, in WoW, they get items that boost their stats by 100s. Attributes ARE very much more gear dependent than DDO.

I'm also sorry if we all don't just line up for your idea of conformity.

[Cleanincubus]

Most of the info needed is already at DDOWiki. It lets you know what kind of DR a quest/raid end boss has, SR that might be involved for enemies, trap DC, etc. I think it's more of a case that new players don't take the time to get informed, before just jumping into quests.

[smeggy1384]

If you can throw us a link to where to say craft a greensteel item. I know they are crafted.. but beyond that not a bit about them.

Some pointers on what loot from a raid would be good for leveling.. such as the abashi set from chronoscope.. looks kind of nice at first, but is that really going to help? Should i drop it for red fens sets, lordsmarch chain set? Some items are pretty much no brainers, and some (like flesh renders goggles from tangleroot) are pointed out so much its hard to miss knowing you need that.

As far as cannith crafting (done in house K, perhaps it should be Kannith crafting? :P ) are there any must haves? Or just a link to a guide on that.

[Musouka]

Some items are pretty much no brainers, and some (like flesh renders goggles from tangleroot) are pointed out so much its hard to miss knowing you need that.

As far as cannith crafting (done in house K, perhaps it should be Kannith crafting? :P ) are there any must haves? Or just a link to a guide on that.

Do you solo a lot? Then yes Visor of the Flesh Render Guards would be worthwhile. If you party a lot, it's not so much needed as you'll most likely run into a cleric or favored soul with deathward, or even a hireling with it.

Cannith crafting is also done in house Cannith.

[AmatsukaIncarnate]

Yikes!
I mention WoW and it all falls to pieces.

I think gear checking IS pertinent to DDO and even more so with the release of U11. And yes, gear checking is not the same as it is in DDO and WoW since DDO is more forgiving for people with worse gear.

That said.

DDO's endgame content is becoming more and more difficult. This means that the gap between fresh level 20s and geared level 20s is also widening and this is part of the reason we see posts about how people need to be properly prepared for certain endgame content.

This is why I think a guide like this is helpful.

Again, this guide will provide what is considered "base line" as far as gear goes. It simply is a suggestion for what is expected gear wise to competently aid a party through a quest/raid/instance.

DDOWiki is awesome but doesn't have an article about how long gear is useful when leveling and does not rate how difficult some endgame quests are to other endgame quests. This is part of the reason I want to create a guide like this.

[smeggy1384]

Yikes!
I mention WoW and it all falls to pieces.

I think gear checking IS pertinent to DDO and even more so with the release of U11. And yes, gear checking is not the same as it is in DDO and WoW since DDO is more forgiving for people with worse gear.

That said.

DDO's endgame content is becoming more and more difficult. This means that the gap between fresh level 20s and geared level 20s is also widening and this is part of the reason we see posts about how people need to be properly prepared for certain endgame content.

This is why I think a guide like this is helpful.

Again, this guide will provide what is considered "base line" as far as gear goes. It simply is a suggestion for what is expected gear wise to competently aid a party through a quest/raid/instance.

DDOWiki is awesome but doesn't have an article about how long gear is useful when leveling and does not rate how difficult some endgame quests are to other endgame quests. This is part of the reason I want to create a guide like this.

Yes i think it would be very helpful. If i know i need to farm that level 10 quest until i get item A to be ready for a raid i will do it.

Fleshrender goggles was just one that popped to mind.. but doesn't matter if solo or grouped, can still be useful. If you can click that (my char being an arti, will last a while, unless dispelled) and save the cleriv/fvs some SP why not? If endgame stuff is really getting harder why should each member not make some effort(save the healer SP in other words) to help with buffing where it's needed? I'd love a list of other helpful clickies i should be collecting to help fill my bags along with bolts and potions.

[Pfold]

My friend who plays WoW (or wow why do i play this game? ) was telling me about how different raids serve as "gear checks".

"Gear Check" just means that if you don't have necessary gear you wipe and cannot advance.

Fixed for you.

Having gear check points in DDO is pointless. The majority of the raids have only 1 boss. 1 boss means there is no advancement within the raid. Gear doesn't become irrelevant every few months.

The characters I first made still wield greensteel. The characters I have with epic armors will probably have the same armors for the next year+. Is that epic SoS I crafted for my fighter going to be dated in 6 months? Probably not. 1 year? Probably not. Turbine has painted itself into a corner in this regard. It cannot just 'purge' people's equipment because they still have to sell the packages or access to the locations where those items came from.

In wow, as they release more content, all equipment becomes quickly dated (the proverbial carrot) and has to be replaced/upgraded regularly to be on par with the content. If the equipment doesn't become dated, well, there just wouldn't be a point in running the new stuff repeatedly (well maybe for cheevo points).

Apples and oranges imo.

On a side note, pushing gear check fights would mean those that are willing to see this in the game would also be willing to have a statistics counter running in game (like recount, wwstats etc). I just don't see this happening. I mean just read the posts about people getting kicked over hp...

[smeggy1384]

Cannith crafting is also done in house Cannith.

Is it? When i started the business of deconstruct an item for an essense the entrance was in house K.. i was told that was cannith crafting. This was before house C was out, so perhaps i was just given the wrong name.

Just a quick search found this link: http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Cannith_Crafting_Guide

Shows cannith crafting, entrance in house K. Go turbine!

[Musouka]

Yikes!
I mention WoW and it all falls to pieces.

I think gear checking IS pertinent to DDO and even more so with the release of U11. And yes, gear checking is not the same as it is in DDO and WoW since DDO is more forgiving for people with worse gear.

That said.

DDO's endgame content is becoming more and more difficult. This means that the gap between fresh level 20s and geared level 20s is also widening and this is part of the reason we see posts about how people need to be properly prepared for certain endgame content.

This is why I think a guide like this is helpful.

Again, this guide will provide what is considered "base line" as far as gear goes. It simply is a suggestion for what is expected gear wise to competently aid a party through a quest/raid/instance.

DDOWiki is awesome but doesn't have an article about how long gear is useful when leveling and does not rate how difficult some endgame quests are to other endgame quests. This is part of the reason I want to create a guide like this.

What you're creating is not helpful. It is a conformity guideline. It says if you don't have this, don't apply for the pugs. It will be used as a benchmark, and in order to play the game everyone will have to conform to the standards set forth. Awful idea.

It will ostracize people, and actually limit pugging.

EDIT: If you want people in your group with specific gear or stats, write it in the LFM.

[Kmnh]

http://ddowiki.com/page/Help!_Am_I_Raid_Ready

That's all the info you need.


Basic gear for shroud is a boss beater and a heavy fort item. They are easy to get, and if you say you are a first timer there is a good chance someone might just give it to you.

For HoX and VoD you want the minos legens hat and a +25 hp green steel accessory and +6 items for your relevant stats. Those are easy to get, but it will take a few hours of farming.

For K/P/D epics you want the same basic gear as HoX and VoD, plus a green steel or epic weapon. It doesn't need to be fully upgraded.

ToD, epic VON6 and Epic dq2 require 500+ HP. Casters can get away with 400 but it will feel weird.

For sands epics, devil assault and Chronoscope you want an upgraded ToD ring and access to Yugoloth pots.

Lord of Blades and higher difficulty raids, bring your best!


This breakdown is for basic "I'm alive and actually hitting the boss" gear, not "I can take a main role like boss tanking or solo casting".

Raid leaders will usually let people in without "basic" gear if you send them a tell. I know I love raiding with newbies.

[Musouka]

http://ddowiki.com/page/Help!_Am_I_Raid_Ready

That's all the info you need.

That's pretty much it. This game has several class customizations, and several classes can fit certain roles. This isn't like WoW, where there pretty much is 3 classes only, and the rest for fluff.

[smeggy1384]

http://ddowiki.com/page/Help!_Am_I_Raid_Ready

That's all the info you need.

I seem to recall part of the wiki getting a virus malware or whatever a while back, rather not have to refer to that thing(Still running anti malware every day, making DDO now th eonly game that has caused me to get into something like that). Something here on these forums that isn't open to editing by just anyone would be better, not to mention harder to sabotage. How many folks can log you in and delete the post?