No new content, PrEs or classes

[cedad]

I see new player with 1/2 made broken Greensteel

Yeah, that sure is a bug that has been around for so long... That it will probably stays forever...

We don't care that some of the class features are broken

What are these long broken class features you are talking of ? Most of them are a few days old...

What I like is having new content, new features around. Most of your recrimination are based on nothing. Of course, in the few days after the release of new content there will be new bugs and quite quickly the most important will be fixed and some time after most of the rest will be too. Of course there are glitches who never get corrected, but every program (at least every major one) has some.

they are spending more time trying to work around known bugs than they are actually questing?

Dunno, I never bother, most "bugs" are unsignificant.

I've seen Turbine fix bugs in the course of a week when it suited them, so to say bugs cannot all be fixed would be ignoring the obvious fixes that have been done when it did bother them. This shows me the other bugs they will most likely never fix, they just don't care to and that list is growing.

This shows us that you definitly have no idea what computer programming is. While some bugs are mainly a few things to fix such as programming typos, some which seem so simple to the user would requier to rewrite a large portion of the code. So, yes some can be corrected in matters of minutes, but not all...

[Ryiah]

I've seen Turbine fix bugs in the course of a week when it suited them, so to say bugs cannot all be fixed would be ignoring the obvious fixes that have been done when it did bother them. This shows me the other bugs they will most likely never fix, they just don't care to and that list is growing.

It pretty much comes down to any bug that benefits the players is fixed. Anything benefiting Turbine is ignored. I don't even think they've denied it at this point. As much as I'd like to see the bugs fixed though, they aren't severe enough to make me want them fixed over new content. I'd gladly live with the bugs if it meant druid coming out sooner.

The ladder bug is annoying but seldom happens when I'm in the middle of battle. The green steel bug actually amused me because I would have thought people would be smart enough not to craft green steel immediately after an update.

That said, if anything newer D&D-related (not 4th edition) comes out I'll be dropping DDO immediately for it. DDO has nothing to offer me anymore that would convince me to stay. I stay simply because there is nothing better.

[Pape_27]

I think a lot of the problem is that turbine rushes to put new content out there. As a result, the bugs and unforseen consequences of changes to the game code = a growing list of known issues.

I would prefer one major update a year or several very small updates instead of the two or three we currently get if the updates were relatively bug free. Instead, it seems like things are pushed thru the preview server just to meet a self imposed deadline for launching new content.

Keep the updates of new content rolling. Keep the new game mechanics in the dev pipeline, just take the time to address known issues before they go live. IMO the updates should be released in waves. Take Update 9 for example. It could have been rolled out like:
U9.1: Content
U9.1a: Fix Broken Content
U9.2: Pre's
u9.2a: Fix Broken Pre's
U9.3: Crafting
U9.3a: Fix broken Crafting
U9.4: Game Mechanic Changes
u9.4a: Fix Broken Mechanics

Instead it seems like the dev teams phiosophy is to throw a bunch of **** at the wall, see what sticks, what doesnt. What do we get? Chaos, Mass Hysteria, Dogs and Cats Living together... and one really big twinkie.

[Doomcrew]

That's sad. I know you guys have been playing quite a bit longer than me but when I see the list growning and Turbine doing nothing about it it tells me they don't care.

I see new player with 1/2 made broken Greensteel and Turbine telling them sorry your fault, shouldn't have made it. We're not going to replace it, because we don't really care. We don't care that some of the class features are broken because you pay us money anyway. We don't care that lag makes certain quests horrible or that people are more and more commonly and openly stating that Turbine isn't equipped to run an MMO.

What I see is a company that doesn't show they really want us around. They are content with having unhappy players, broken quests, broken spells and broken graphics. It tells all the new players we don't really care about you. The older players have perhaps become accustomed to the many broken things so it doesn't bother them.

I agree with wanting new content but what I see is a snowball effect. New content is great I love it, but what when that list continues to grow and continues until the game is so riddled with bugs people leave simply because they are spending more time trying to work around known bugs than they are actually questing? I've seen Turbine fix bugs in the course of a week when it suited them, so to say bugs cannot all be fixed would be ignoring the obvious fixes that have been done when it did bother them. This shows me the other bugs they will most likely never fix, they just don't care to and that list is growing.

I don't believe Turbine has said there will be no action on the Green Steel bug. I don't believe they've commented
on that to any degree, I believe they are first trying to resolve the issue before addressing the bugged items.

To say any different would have me request a link stating anything otherwise.

If Turbine were to suspend any new content development in order to attempt a bug free game, I believe then,
one could expect a mass dissention from the player base.

[Drakos]

Please. I have a feeling most of us would happily wait a little for new whatever while you show us you care enough to fix these issues. With new MMOs coming out soon it's in your best interest to give us reasons to stay tuned in for update 10. But if the list of issues just keeps growing, of people loosing hard-fought-for gear and little to no word on how long -if ever- these problems will be addressed, then why would we not choose to go somewhere new and fresh?

/not signed

I actually think more people would leave for greener pastures if they slowed down on the new content. I think the most common complaint I see if "need more conten", wheather that be classes, races, pre's, quests (mainly high level), raids, crafting, etc...

If they halted new content development and only concentrated on bugs, I think more people would leave due to bordom than are leaving because of bug x or y.

[Ryiah]

I don't believe Turbine has said there will be no action on the Green Steel bug. I don't believe they've commented on that to any degree, I believe they are first trying to resolve the issue before addressing the bugged items.

Closest they've come is saying to stop making tier 3 as it is irrevocable. I'm assuming their usage of irrevocable is because a patch doesn't exist but it could end up being worse. It certainly wouldn't surprise me in the least if they came out and said they don't have a clue what went wrong.

I have to wonder that myself. How do you manage to mess up green steel by adding something that should be totally unrelated? It'd be amusing to take a peek at their engine's source code just to see why.

If Turbine were to suspend any new content development in order to attempt a bug free game, I believe then, one could expect a mass dissention from the player base.

Attempting a bug free game? If they tried such a thing then yes, dissension would be expected. But correcting some of the more annoying bugs that are obvious all the time to the player base wouldn't be a bad thing.

[Qhualor]

I agree with the op for the most part, but I would be fine with taking care of the major issues. There will always be bugs. What would make a dream come true, is fixing the lag issues. I would have to pinch myself if that ever happened. The minor bugs I can live with, even when I'm running from a mob and I hitch on a ladder trying to get away and I end up dying from it.

[Uska]

No thanks yeah there are some bugs but all games have those and they need to work on it but no new content no way.

[MaximusParthas]

fix the assassin vorpal damage

What are u referring to?

[Samiusbot]

Do you remember what it was like back when we got 1-2 updates a year? I do.

Know what people said about ddo then? That it was dieing.

Know what they say about ddo now? That it is growing.

Why? Content. Crazy high levels of NEW content.

Do i like bugs? No

But I will deal with them everyday not to return to the way things were before. Where words like stagnant and dieing were used to describe the game i <3.

[Bilger]

Yes we all wish bugs where fixed and nothing ever went wrong.

When it comes to video games and mmo's in particular there are different teams for different parts.

So new content comes from one dept and programming another. They probably have a few designated to just bug fixing.

Some things aren't easy to fix there is a mountain of code (5+years worth) that needs gone thru and takes time so fixes can take a matter of days or a few months to fix.

You can't have multiple people working on same code at same time would just mess all up.

Maybe they do need to designate more people to bugs but I like new content personally and it is getting worked on along with bugs and works fine to me.

Maybe just need better testing.

[Canopenner]

I think alot of the "bugs"

Ladder casting exploit is prime example.

were left there on purpose.

[OzmarDDO]

Please Turbine don't make anything new - don't add new classes - don't make PrE - don't do anything! Just take a step back and fix the 100s of issues you've got floating already.

\not signed. I want new content!

But I also want the bugs fixed. Most annoying: where is the half-orc's laugh? Why can't I have a jolly half-orc? Why isn't he jolly?!?!?!

-Ozmar the Disappointed

[BuyTiles]

dude I have made 100% bug free hangman game.

was so easy. what are you talking about!

Show me a 100% bug free program and i'll show you something thats not been tested enough.

This is coming from a 20 years experienced programmer.

Fix bugs, yep, good one.

Add new content and keep growing, far more important.

[Memnir]

You're living in a Fantasy World!

(appropriately enough)

Yep.
About as much as expecting Turbine to do a bug fix only update.

[Phidius]

Forget new content, and forget fixing bugs that are years old.

Spend more time reinventing the game! Keep changing things around because people aren't playing the game the way you want them to!

The secret to happiness is to ask for what you're already going to get. Manage expectations FTW!

[MrWizard]

I disagree with many of you. I am a programmer.
In almost all situations where I am called in to fix someone's application I ask for the list of bugs.
In 99% of the cases these bugs are very simple changes that affect little and make the program much better.

Many items have been fixed recently...like the toolbars always moving even after locking, or the items still being able to be pulled off when locked. This was looked at and the dev found it easily and fixed it probably in seconds. It was added the next update/hotfix.

Many times bugs are added when someone adds new lines of code that conflict (such as crafting suddenly not working right on GS or the really mixed up DM voice overs right now.)

In 99% of the cases these are simple fixes. One programmer could just spend time going through all this and making fixes or recommendations. As a programmer I would say this is essential to this program.

This is an old program that is continually being stitched together by people who were not the original builders. There is a point when it is just band aids and splints when you add stuff. That makes it unstable.

With more advanced engines and newer programming techniques, it is sometimes worth a rewrite. Even Operating systems start looking at full rewrites at times. Definitely major upgrades every few years. Apple, MS, and linux provide new kernels and try to get out old bugs with each update (and include many more).

DDO was probably being built in 2004, beta in 2005, live in 2006, and we are now in 2011. 7 years is a long time to be running a legacy program that has been continually modified without redoing its guts.

As it gets more modified a program's original foundation is not designed or planned to have all this new stuff. That is why an addition of the new crafting screwed up the old crafting...the old crafting having just been added on top of the old program that did not have anything like it built into it....thus 'bugs' happen.

You have to deal with bugs...security and bugs. Those two things can kill your business. "hey, come play ddo", "um, this is broken, this is not working, etc" is not good for the business.


I imagine somewhere there is a very long list of bugs, much longer than any of us realize.


Programming is a chore. A hard one. Most programmers work in bursts....they get involved and go to town on something, mostly finish it, then peter out and get some pizza and soda..... then lose interest in the finishing. Why? Because that is the hard part.

More bugs = too much pizza and soda = programmers to overwhelmed too finish.

They need some 'finishers'... closers.
These type of people are the most important in most any business. You got to close the deal. Most employees cannot do that.

[Canopenner]

Show me a 100% bug free program and i'll show you something thats not been tested enough.

This is coming from a 20 years experienced programmer.

Fix bugs, yep, good one.

Add new content and keep growing, far more important.

um...dude...sorry but my 8th grade computer class project archives were all destroyed in the Chicago fire.

Trust me tho. Hangman is not really that hard to get bug free.

I admit would pretty bugged out running on modern OS. Like I think all it would do is ask me how I wanted to open the file.

Maybe I could recreate it if I had 20 hours and a C64.

[Imnisc]

I get the impression theres no low level coders permanently attached to ddo, atleast I cant remember any posts to that effect.
The ones that post use the engine at script level and so can fix high level bugs like prestige details etc. but not netcode or 3d engine stuff.

Maybe a dev could clarify.

[Canopenner]

problem is prolly that original coders are prolly gone.

also prolly didnt document anything.

later waves of programmers prolly left things the same way.