PvP? Inquire Within.

[bill87]

So after ~ a year on the server, I'd like to know why there is almost no emphasis on PvP in this game. If you look at the majority of large popular MMO's, there is some kind of PvP aspect to the game to keep people entertained. In this game, you grind out levels, then you grind out raids/epics for gear, then....you TR or become bored and leave.

I feel like PvP should have more than just a couple unpopulated pits where the only action is when an unsuspecting lowbie falls in and doesn't know where the heck he is.

With this thread I'd like people to voice their opinions about PvP because I feel the only people in game that do...are the ones who for some reason absolutely hate it. Why? It keeps players around and keeps them farming/grinding for gear so they can compete. Obviously the PvP in this game is fast-paced and quick, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't exist. Personally I would like a PvP-Town or Explorer Area. If it's a town, make the entire area a Brawl and put npc's, shops, etc. so people play at their own risk in that specific town.(Edit: This would also cut out the cat n mouse games in the current Brawls where people sit on the ledge and jump down to 'gank' people) If it's an Explorer Area, have bonus quests in those areas that people have to complete without player killed/ambushed. Just some kind of new twist would be nice. The last few updates were nice when it comes to PvM, I think it's time to give PvP a little love.

[pSINNa]

/not signed

(reasons, many many threads outline the reasons)

Coit out~

[cdemeritt]

With this thread I'd like people to voice their opinions about PvP because I feel the only people in game that do...

You asked... Please remove PvP from the game... It is not needed... This is not a PvP game, and I hope it never becomes one... as for the reasons, I'm sure if you do a search for PvP, you'll find hundreds of threads like this one where only a few are for it, most are against it...

[cdemeritt]

Oh, and OP, you might want to quickly don some flame retardant clothing... The fires are coming, and they are going to be hotter than a fire spec sorc's stacked firewalls.

[FrancisP.Fancypants]

The best PVP in this game happens in the forums. Usually when someone brings up the need for more PVP.

[pSINNa]

I'm not sure if you are being deliberately obtuse or not, but to spell it out simply.

The predominately PvE nature of the game has achieved some vestige of balance with the classes/races/gear available versus the quest npc's, raid bosses and so on.

But, there is actually very little balance when it comes to player characters against each other, seeing as the specialties of each class/race combination can be very extreme.

There is a lot of min/max going on, and from a PvE perspective, specialisation with good party makeup will bring all elements against a particular dungeon/raid/boss for maximum effectiveness.

But, the varying classes against each other are not balanced at all.

Now, if an attempt was made to balance the classes against each other, it would drastically alter the face of the PvE game, destroying years of work balancing the classes and players against the quests.

Hope that helps, if not, read the PvP area of the forums, many people have spelled it out in a much simpler fashion many times.

Coit out~

[Kominalito]

i'm writing a book on how to make people hate you online. do you want to write the intro?

[Cathalo]

DnD isn't really the best platform for PvP. You would have to nerf a few classes to the point where they would suck. Specifically wizards, clerics, fvs. You know, the classes that have the ability to instantly kill or cc multiple targets without giving them the chance to fight back.

I always liked the ability to kill other party members when I played PnP but it did tend to **** the DM off to the degree where he locked me out of his adventures and leave flaming bags of **** on my doorstep. Then I played some MMO's in my younger days when I would stay up late farming noobs in UO and then Shadowbane and Asheron's Call, lots of fun those times were. But I don't really see how any of that could be transfered into DDO where it would work. This game was built for PvE and I don't see it changing anytime soon. If I need a PvP fix I usually just go play AoC or Darkfall, must better games that deliver PvP in an enviornment where you are surrounded with human scum element.

In todays games its much better to find a game that focuses its development resources around the primary area you enjoy most. I have played alot of MMO's and many that have PvE and PvP, but very few of them do a good job at both and in fact in many cases one side ends up screwing up the other because its too much **** for devs to balance. WoW is a possible exception here, but I never cared for WoW's PvP because I always thought it was for simple minded people who use I-win buttons as a crutch, I also never cared for the whole rock,paper, scissors dynamic that entails. So, when I want PvE i usually go find a game that focuses on good PvE like DDO, when I want PvP I go play a game that was built for it. I have alot more fun that way.

[Kominalito]

let me explain it easily.

clerics have BB and heals. if they are mobbed without tanks they die.
sorc/wiz have CC and massive damaging spells. but if they are hit, they fold like paper.
rangers, barbs, monks, fighters pallys - all can take a hit, but without CC they are doomed.
while none of these people would make it through the halls of a quest without a thief to take traps. but god help that thief if he pulls aggro.

starting to see the point?

for PVP to be balanced it means taking all of those classes and nerfing them till they are all just different versions of the same thing. no more fighters, finesse players or casters. just variations of fightermages and magefighters.

thats boring, stale, lame, and WoW. there is a reason that this game is doing well. its because its different. if the devs took any of the advice from the the lillypad-hopping MMO tourists, this game would suck. just like whatever game you left to come here.

[baddax]

let me explain it easily.

clerics have BB and heals. if they are mobbed without tanks they die.
sorc/wiz have CC and massive damaging spells. but if they are hit, they fold like paper.
rangers, barbs, monks, fighters pallys - all can take a hit, but without CC they are doomed.
while none of these people would make it through the halls of a quest without a thief to take traps. but god help that thief if he pulls aggro.

starting to see the point?

for PVP to be balanced it means taking all of those classes and nerfing them till they are all just different versions of the same thing. no more fighters, finesse players or casters. just variations of fightermages and magefighters.

thats boring, stale, lame, and WoW. there is a reason that this game is doing well. its because its different. if the devs took any of the advice from the the lillypad-hopping MMO tourists, this game would suck. just like whatever game you left to come here.

What about group based pvp? ie 5 on 5 party make up is up to players? Im not a huge pvp fan but i do feal at some point turbine will improve there existing pvp system. If you do not want to pvp im sure you wouldnt have to but for those who do as in other mmos im sure turbine would be glad to attract more players.

[fuzzy1guy]

I hate pvp and anyone who disagrees with me.... i hate them too.


/delete pvp totally. I'm tired of hearing about it. Tired of seeing the stupid leak into general chat from the inns. And tired of the pvp ppl in groups. 'Oh what weapon is that, mmm.. Yeah i can beat you in pvp i bet'

It never should have been added to a d&d based game.

[donfilibuster]

What about group based pvp? ie 5 on 5 party make up is up to players?

We have this in the party challenge with the color labels and all, but still pointless since the game and combat mechanics are not designed for pvp.

Many of us won't like dev time being spent on this either, give pve needs so much work to reach its true potential.
d&d is about doing quests and growing your character, it's not even about leveling or amasing loot, that's a mmo thing.

[azrael4h]

let me explain it easily.

clerics have BB and heals. if they are mobbed without tanks they die.
sorc/wiz have CC and massive damaging spells. but if they are hit, they fold like paper.
rangers, barbs, monks, fighters pallys - all can take a hit, but without CC they are doomed.
while none of these people would make it through the halls of a quest without a thief to take traps. but god help that thief if he pulls aggro.

I have a Favored Soul (basically the Divine equivalent of the Sorcerer) who is melee oriented, and mobs mobs quite well while toting the soul stones of gimp "tanks". For that matter, my offensive casting Cleric? I was soloing GH s/e/r at 11-12, two levels before the rest of the guild decided they would try it. And I couldn't kite worth a flip back then either. Typically, she goes wherever she wants, because she can handle being mobbed.

I've grouped with a character who had most of his levels in Sorcerer, and tanked in Hound. Another with an identical looking build that hacked his way through the sub with ease. For that matter, my pure Sorcerer has been making bloodstone runs since level 8.

I have a couple of guildies who have soloed Monks, Fighters, and Rangers up to end game just to catch them up to the rest of the group.

We usually don't have a Rogue (Thief is soAD&D). Most quests don't have a lot of traps, and even then, good timing can get you by many of them.

PvP games are basically "kill x rats" and mail delivery games, with constant changes to core abilities because one person is a whiner and sucked so much that they got beat by someone else. Raiding is where those "popular" games keep their core players at, not PvP. Leave PvP to the totally skill based games like CoD. It's neither needed nor wanted in a good MMO.

[Bahgs]

PvP is merely a tool for ePeen waving. If that is your thing, go to a PvP game.

IMO, any dev time spent on PvP that could be spent on PvE is dev time wasted.

[Alavatar]

I feel like PvP should have more than just a couple unpopulated pits where the only action is when an unsuspecting lowbie falls in and doesn't know where the heck he is.

Do you know why those pits are generally unpopulated?

It's because the people that PvP in DDO are such a small minority that it is rarely, if ever, used. The vast majority of the playerbase has no interest in PvP in DDO except to test a new build or an item or something. And Turbine developing anything more to support PvP will no doubt alienate more players than Turbine would gain.

[Alavatar]

That said, PvP is an integral part of PnP D&D. It isn't as apparent, and it isn't always combat based, but players always have the option of infighting. And, many humanoid NPCs tend to contain PC levels which emulates PvP for combat.

PvP in PnP D&D requires all players involved to be okay with it, though, including the DM. Otherwise, it degrades the relationship between the players.

[Hambo]

What about group based pvp? ie 5 on 5 party make up is up to players? Im not a huge pvp fan but i do feal at some point turbine will improve there existing pvp system. If you do not want to pvp im sure you wouldnt have to but for those who do as in other mmos im sure turbine would be glad to attract more players.

Already in the game. Talk to "Jackson Laws" at the entrance to any pit... He'll transport the group to your choice of PvP areas where you can set up teams for Capture the Flag and Last Man Standing.

[Hambo]

let me explain it easily.

clerics have BB and heals. if they are mobbed without tanks they die.
sorc/wiz have CC and massive damaging spells. but if they are hit, they fold like paper.
rangers, barbs, monks, fighters pallys - all can take a hit, but without CC they are doomed.
while none of these people would make it through the halls of a quest without a thief to take traps. but god help that thief if he pulls aggro.

starting to see the point?

for PVP to be balanced it means taking all of those classes and nerfing them till they are all just different versions of the same thing. no more fighters, finesse players or casters. just variations of fightermages and magefighters.

thats boring, stale, lame, and WoW. there is a reason that this game is doing well. its because its different. if the devs took any of the advice from the the lillypad-hopping MMO tourists, this game would suck. just like whatever game you left to come here.

What people seem to forget is that the casting classes are already gimped in the pits... All Area of Effect (AOE) spells are disabled (BB, Cloud Kill, etc.)... "Flesh to Stone" was disabled after people started casting it and leaving that Alt to be a statue forever, until a GM could fix it; they disabled the spell within a week, as I recall. Same with PK. And on and on...

[Dummmmy]

I'm not sure if you are being deliberately obtuse or not, but to spell it out simply.

The predominately PvE nature of the game has achieved some vestige of balance with the classes/races/gear available versus the quest npc's, raid bosses and so on.

Coit out~

thanks for that, thats the funniest thing ive read all day lol , more like players are way overpowered for the dumb AI npc opponents

[Yajerman01]

let me explain it easily.

clerics have BB and heals. if they are mobbed without tanks they die. False
sorc/wiz have CC and massive damaging spells. but if they are hit, they fold like paper. WF Wizzy come to mind?
rangers, barbs, monks, fighters pallys - all can take a hit, but without CC they are doomed. Says who, you?
while none of these people would make it through the halls of a quest without a thief to take traps. Traps shmaps, but god help that thief if he pulls aggro. This holds true on a poorly played rogue.

starting to see the point? Your points are feckless.

for PVP to be balanced it means taking all of those classes and nerfing them till they are all just different versions of the same thing. no more fighters, finesse players or casters. just variations of fightermages and magefighters. Who said there has to be balance - he is simply asking for expansion

thats boring, stale, lame, and WoW. there is a reason that this game is doing well. its because its different. if the devs took any of the advice from the the lillypad-hopping MMO tourists, this game would suck. just like whatever game you left to come here.

They can make money off of PVP too, so dont narrow your point of view with generic fodder!