THF - ever worth it?

[coolpenguin410]

Is the THF chain of feats ever worth it? It seems to me that most of the time, your primary focus is damaging one monster at a time. The times when your glancing blows would be enough to kill multiple monsters usually doesn't seem to last past level 6 or 7 (at least from my experience). Maybe I just don't have enough experience with these feats.

But I wonder, would a melee be better served with other feats? The reason I ask is because I just brought my q-staff focused monk to level 15 and it seems like this chain might be appropriate. However, I just can't help but feel the glancing blow damage will be inconsequential and I'd be better off picking up either more toughness feats or the +2 to saves feats. Not that either particularly need improvement, but more is better. Perhaps the same argument can be made about damage.

Anyways, I'm just having a hard time justifying spending 3 feats for (what seems to me as) a minimal bonus to damage to targets other than what I'm currently fighting.

[Goldeneye]

At high levels Greater Two Handed Fighting makes a large difference. Low/Mid levels it seems hard to justify, but it becomes worth it!

[Visty]

glancing blows also hit the mob in front of you if you are only hitting one
and the difference between 21dmg and 100dmg per glancing blow isworth the feats

[coolpenguin410]

glancing blows also hit the mob in front of you if you are only hitting one
and the difference between 21dmg and 100dmg per glancing blow isworth the feats

What is the percentage of main damage to glancing blows? I doubt I'll ever see a 100 damage glancing blow except on a crit.

[SimVerg]

Unless they changed it, GTHF is required to get a glancing blow on moving attack 1, which means that it increases your damage by around 20-25/swing.

edit: On an actual dps build.

[TheDjinnFor]

Here's what I've been led to understand. A single tier of a THF enhancement or feat that gives an "increased chance that weapon effects affect glancing blows" gives you (based on estimates) a 3%-5% chance at having effects like vorpal, pure good, trip, stunning blow, et cetera appear. In total, when you incorporate the warforged 3 enhancements, the frenzied barbarians/kensai fighters 3 enhancements, the three THF feats, and the barbarians capstone, you get a 30%-50% chance of having weapon effects appear on glancing blows. Some people say you already have a base of 3% or that the first 2HF feat gives you double, so it might be 33%-50% (the round numbers seem to make sense, because that represents 1/3 and 1/2 respectively).

Edit: Cylinwolf has linked the actual estimates the glancing blows. I might have been confusing it with something else, though I was pretty close. So, a BAB of +0-10 is 1/5th the base damage, +11-15 is 1/4th the base damage, and +16-20 is almost 1/3rd the base damage. The wiki doesn't mention the extra damage from enhancements or feats though, which is odd. I clicked some links and it's apparently +10 base damage per feat, which is then divided normally by the divisor above.

In total that means that, depending on the precise estimates, you need to hit around three foes to be equivalent to a TWF.

This is just random recollections from memory, so it may or may not be perfectly correct in all areas.

Is it worth it? Maybe. It tends to add up once you have it all.

[Cylinwolf]

I forget the exact estimate,

Wiki

[Crazyfruit]

100 dmg glancings? hehe I must be doing something wrong

But it is worth it depending on your playstyle. On my wizard I like to charge into big groups of monsters swinging and some do get chopped up just from glancing blows - even at level 20. With full BAB, all THF feats & not moving it works out to like a bonus 35% of your damage to everything nearby, on 75% of your hits, plus whatever little effects decide to kick in.

[coolpenguin410]

works out to like a bonus 35% of your damage to everything nearby

Ok, this is what I was looking for. Assuming this number is true, I don't think it's enough to justify spending 3 feats on it. I may just spend the feats on greater survivability when I LR.

[TheDjinnFor]

Ok, this is what I was looking for. Assuming this number is true, I don't think it's enough to justify spending 3 feats on it. I may just spend the feats on greater survivability when I LR.

While this is entirely your prerogative I'd disagree with that decision, unless you're not making a DPS toon or your current build has really low saves and HP.

[Creddi]

Ok, this is what I was looking for. Assuming this number is true, I don't think it's enough to justify spending 3 feats on it. I may just spend the feats on greater survivability when I LR.

What other feats would you take in their place that you think would be better? What role do you figure your monk has?

[coolpenguin410]

What other feats would you take in their place that you think would be better? What role do you figure your monk has?

Maybe toughness for some more HP. Maybe Resilence for dodging traps, etc. Maybe Weapon Focus (mostly for flavor). It's not so much about making the build better, per se, but making it more fun. That's just how I play.

I just leveled him to 15 and picked up iTHF. I haven't had a chance to try it, we'll see how I feel about it after some testing. If I can solo groups of mobs faster, I may just resign myself to it.