Khopesh vs Rapier DPS

[kingfisher]

thanks val, i learned something on page 1 but then my add kicked in. nice thread tho

[Valezra]

thanks val, i learned something on page 1 but then my add kicked in. nice thread tho

Thanks... you haven't really missed anything by skipping. We got hung up on semantics for 3 pages and now we're "discussing" the intricacies of the math but we are all coming up with the same thing and we can't agree on that. lol

[Borror0]

It's not meaningless, it is physically what happens in the game. In the game a khopesh will land on average 15 out of every 20 hits as normal damage and 4 out of every 20 hits as criticals. I chose to set my math up to reflect that. I don't understand how that it meaningless.

Ever heard of Occam's Razor?

[Monkey_Archer]

Thanks... you haven't really missed anything by skipping. We got hung up on semantics for 3 pages and now we're "discussing" the intricacies of the math but we are all coming up with the same thing and we can't agree on that. lol

Except my post where I prove that khopeshes are inferior weapons and rapier do double the dps overall and, and... err.. better stop now before someone quotes me and starts flaming away

[Borror0]

better stop now before someone quotes me and starts flaming away

Too late, dumbass.

[Valezra]

Ever heard of Occam's Razor?

Yes. So?

I believe your formula requires more steps and explainations than mine. I think you should revise yours. But who cares? So I am wrong because in your opinion I took an extra step or two?

I have lost a lot of respect for you. I didn't realize you could get so petty.

[toughguyjoe]

1. SO in short the "Power Attack favors Khopesh's" argument is actually false.

Ok i hate these threads so i'm just going to reply to the part that i think is kinda wrong, which makes it only sort of right.

Power attack doesn't really favor any weapon other than Two Handed ones. However. Rapiers can be used by Dex builds, and are in fact MOSTLY used by dex builds, and I know that not all Dex builds are able to take power attack due to tis STR requirement of their feat allotment so in fact, when one build with Rapiers takes Weapon finesse, the other build with Kopehses usually takes Power attack in its place, so while the feat may not "favor" kopeshes it is more often paired with the kopesh.

[Monkey_Archer]

Too late, dumbass.

At least you used occam's razor on your flame

[toughguyjoe]

At least you used occam's razor on your flame

I used occams razor on yo momma last night and it hardly made a dent in that jungly patch!

No offense meant someone just had to make a crass joke.

[kingfisher]

Thanks... you haven't really missed anything by skipping. We got hung up on semantics for 3 pages and now we're "discussing" the intricacies of the math but we are all coming up with the same thing and we can't agree on that. lol

i was told there would be no math!

one thing tho, seems like most dex builds HAVE to have PA to start to make up for the low str. they can almost always afford the loss in to-hit. so having PA with rapiers is just as common as with khopeshes, not that it matters

[Borror0]

So I am wrong because in your opinion I took an extra step or two?

You asked how it was meaningless. Well, I told you. It's an additional calculation that amounts to nothing. It has nothing with being wrong.

It's just that it serves no purpose.

I believe your formula requires more steps and explainations than mine. I think you should revise yours.

Mine is useful because it allows me to compare two weapons easily. Yours, however, does not.

[Valezra]

You asked how it was meaningless. Well, I told you. It's an additional calculation that amounts to nothing. It has nothing with being wrong.

It's just that it serves no purpose.

Occam's Razor does not make something meaningless. Fail.

[maddmatt70]

How about a real decision a player has to make. Should a player take the khopesh proficiency feat or the power attack feat i.e. does the khopesh without power attack do more damage then a racial weapon such as the rapier with power attack. How about with different variations of to-hit?

[Borror0]

Occam's Razor does not make something meaningless. Fail.

Occam's Razor does not, indeed, make something meaningless. It states that the best answer is often the most simplest one.

It's meaningless because it has no value. Period.

[valorik]

can you put this in terms of rainbows and butterflies?

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

It all depends on many things. At (very) low str, rapier tends to do better. At high AC, rapiers tend to do better until you reach insane high AC then khopesh catch up mainly because of the increased grazing hit damage. At high fort, rapier comes out top. greensteel and how your burst is distributed also affects stuff, since burst effects in DDO still trigger even if the mob has heavy fort.

but Vs Harry for example a gs khopesh is better than a gs rapier.

I have a spreadsheet I use to calculate all this stuff, it's kinda hard to use but if anyone wants it let me know.

Garth

[baddax]

Ever heard of Occam's Razor?

Its a guild on Thelanis, but thats not important now....

[Angelus_dead]

wrong, mathematically speaking if you take the limit of F(n_khop)/F(n_rap) as n-> infinite, the benefit gained will converge to 8%.

No, because f(khop)/f(rap) is not the "benefit" under consideration.

[Hurry]

No, because f(khop)/f(rap) is not the "benefit" under consideration.

Wrong.



Khops are the best, and PA makes them the bestest, better than the better they already were against rapiers, even if rapiers gain more from it, PA still makes the already best, betterer. I make great points!

[Arkat]

Occam's Razor does not, indeed, make something meaningless. It states that the best answer is often the most simplest one.

No. Occam's Razor is about the simplest answer being the likeliest one.

Likely is an objective term as compared to "best."

What does "best" mean? By whose definition? Hence it's subjective.

No, likely is measurable. The likeliest answer is the correct one or it isn't.

Aesthetic and practical considerations

Prior to the 20th century, it was a commonly-held belief that nature itself was simple and that simpler hypotheses about nature were thus more likely to be true; this notion was deeply rooted in the aesthetic value simplicity holds for human thought and the justifications presented for it often drew from theology. Thomas Aquinas made this argument in the 13th century, writing, "If a thing can be done adequately by means of one, it is superfluous to do it by means of several; for we observe that nature does not employ two instruments where one suffices."

...

Empirical justification

One way a theory or a principle could be justified is empirically; that is to say, if simpler theories were to have a better record of turning out to be correct than more complex ones, that would corroborate Occam's razor.


Emphasis Mine

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_Razor


Maybe we're talking semantics here but it is more accurate to say of Occam's that the simple answer is more likely to be true, not that the simple answer is the best one.