Transmuting discussion

[GrayOldDruid]

Ok, I still can;t find where this is mentioned in the release notes, could someone give us the Quote please?

So, does this mean my transmuting of Greater evil outsider and transmuting of Greater undead bane dwarven axes are garbage or what?

I'd say no on the TGEOB - It will still change to Silver for Demons and Iron for Devils and get you the Bane bonuses.

on the TGUB, its a bit less DPS on Skellies. It will no longer turn your slicing axe into a bludgeoning axe for skellies, so your damage will go down on skeletons.

Transmuting works by getting to an enemie's weakness. Some are vulnerable to silver, iron, adamantine, etc. Others are vulnerable to slicing or bludgeoning or piercing (axeblock, hammerblock or spearblock), Transmuting at the moment changes a mace to a sharp sword-like thing while still giving you the bonus for weilding a bludgeoning item that you got from your specalization feat. After Mod9, it won't change a mace to a sword or a sword to a mace or dagger.

[GrayOldDruid]

but the downside is it will eat up more inventory space........... again.

I am really hoping for something to counter this inventory filling change. Don't mind the change, but I'm already short on inventory space!!

[xman26]

No where did they say no nerfs to existing brokenly overpowered gear. Also known as corrections.

What exactly was so overpowering of GS Min2 weapons? Or for that matter, any Transmuter weapon?

[xman26]

I dont mind the change to transmuting at all. I didnt like the "min II for everything" approach, and at least now blunt weapons will have some minor relevance again. I always felt Transmuting was somewhat overpowered.

As compared to what exactly? RadianceII? Air/Pos?

[xman26]

I don't see what the big problem is. The devs are turning transmuting back to what it was in PnP. I for one am all for this as it will finally get some players to think about what they are fighting, instead of just running up to something and beating on it without a care. One of the main points that separated DnD from other games was knowing your enemy, a item effect that basically says "This weapon beats all." empowers the power gamers

I don't see the price of something going up that much. Trust me when people post a +1 Pure good dagger for 200,000 gold... it can't go much higher, then again I am talking some agro auction posts (some not all. I post for 1/2 base price buy out 1/4 starting bid)

Failed to read the PnP transmuting discription on page 7 of this thread didn't ya. Transmuting takes on the properties of what ever is nessassary to bypass DR. With the rework, it no longer does that.

[FluffyCalico]

What exactly was so overpowering of GS Min2 weapons? Or for that matter, any Transmuter weapon?

Well lets see people carried min2 for bosses

vorpals and w/p for non bosses

that pretty much sums it up, thats all you needed for anything

Vorpals got fixed with death ward and now so have the other 2. This corrects a very broken weapon group.

[Borror0]

What exactly was so overpowering of GS Min2 weapons? Or for that matter, any Transmuter weapon?

Easy. You need no other weapon for DPS unless you are one of the lucky few to find a Holy Silver of Greater Evil Outsider Bane (or similar equivalent for the boss you are fighting).

[Riorik]

You mean like the vampire bow?

Base Value: 32,075 gp
Weight: 3 lbs
Proficiency Class: Martial weapons
Damage and Type: 1d10 + 2 Pierce, Good, Magic
Critical threat range: 19-20 / x3
Weapon Type: Long Bow / Ranged weapons
Handedness: Ranged weapon
Damage: n/a Attack: Dex
Durability: 120/120 Made from: Silver (Hardness: 12)
Minimum Level: 6
Binding: Does not bind on Acquire
Location: The Church and the Cult, End Chest
[edit] Enhancements
+2 Enhancement Bonus
Holy

The Silver Longbow isn't Silver - it's more or less just a name...kinda like "The Silver Flame". I'm not sure, that might be the source or inspiration. You have to use Silver Arrows by bypass Harry's DR using this bow...coincidentally, that could be one of the game changes in the future as players move to what bypasses the DR.

Regarding Sally, Harry, etc -- Rogues are hurt a bit less as long as they can avoid aggro.

[Riorik]

• Flesh Golem (Adamantine)
• Iron Golem (Adamantine)
• Adamantine Defender (Adamantine)
• Mind Flayer (ByesKh)
• Ghaele (Cold Iron)
• Bralani (Cold Iron)
• Stormreaver (Mithril)
• Orthon (Silver)
• Bearded Devil (Silver)
• Vampire (Silver)

Utilizing Transmuting with the paladin capstone Weapons of Good should also allow things like Transmuting of Greater Evil Outsider Bane to be effective in their hands.

Doesn't DDO used a tiered (non standard PnP) approach to DR based on difficulty? aka, differences between Normal, Hard & Elite regarding what can bypass the DR.

[Draccus]

transmuters of pg just went up a ton, whereas plain transmuters blow, which is unfortunate

and min2 are great, still

And yet another hidden issue for those of us who were stupid enough to select Neutral as our aligment way back at level 1 when we didn't know that DDO is the only D&D game in history that didn't allow alignment changes.

A neutral character must use UMD to equip at PG item so not only are our regular transmuters now worthless against Arraetrikos and Suulomades but those neutral characters without UMD have no choice but to craft MinII's.

Even those of us WITH UMD must deal with the fact that rez penalties, level drains, debuffs, feebleminds, etc. could render even a transmuter of PG useless.

Nice...not.

[xman26]

Wrong. That's just obviously untrue if you pay any attention.

Like the hell it is. Try playing the game for just 10 hours or less a week and see what kinda **** you get. The loot system in this game is fubar.

As far as saving inventory space: it still does that too. Where previously people would have a punch of +2 acid of greater giantbane and +1 holy goblin bane and +1 transmuting greater outsider bane, now they just have the single Mineral.

The fact that it might not be the best against skeletons and liches anymore? A minor drawback, boo hoo hoo.

However: It would be fine to give affected players a token to dissolve their green steel back into the component parts. Even though Mineral 2 has only lost a little power, it doesn't hurt to give them a "crafting respec".

I still carry Bane weapons as Min2 doesn't work best against everything and yes Min2 is a space saving weapon for those who have built TWF. who the hell wants to carry 80 weapons on them at all times? Seems to me like you do Power gamer.

[Inspire]

how does this make sense pls tell me this ought to be good ./sarcasm

Because regardless its still a great weapon, I wasnt one of the Min2 junkies either although I think I have around 4 or 5 Min2 weapons on my toons... I think that this change just makes sense, a metal shouldnt be able to deal bludgeon or pericing damage if the weapon in question is a Kukri or any other slasher and visa versa.

Im not saying Im thrilled about this change, Im just saying I could care less.




Ps; About Transmuting Greater Evil Outsider bane(or any bane) weapons, they should still be quite valuable correct? Since Flametouched Iron and Silver/Cold Iron are all metalic properties, which means they should bypass most any DR/ as long as it isnt restricted to Bludgeon/Perice/Slash.

[vtecfiend99]

Easy. You need no other weapon for DPS unless you are one of the lucky few to find a Holy Silver of Greater Evil Outsider Bane (or similar equivalent for the boss you are fighting).

The amount of grinding to maek these weapons makes this a non-issue. There is always going to be a best weapon, and the nature of an mmo is that people WILL grind it out and get it.


There is no reason that at level 16-20 I can't have a set of weapons that ONLY REDUCE THE NUMBER OF INVENTORY SLOTS I have to use on my melee.


Saying that MIN2 being a "set it and forget it" weapon for most bosses is a problem only becasue it is set and forget is a logical error on a pretty massive scale.



*edit* and anyway, most of the problem here is transmuting, not min2. If min2 was such an issue then how about we change the effects it gets? With this change there is a subset of players that simply will NOT be able to bypass pitfiend DR. You can say anythign you want about balance Bor, having a group of players that it is hard to keep anyway (casuals) feel even MORE inferior to power gamers is about the worst thing a game can do.

[vtecfiend99]

Because regardless its still a great weapon, I wasnt one of the Min2 junkies either although I think I have around 4 or 5 Min2 weapons on my toons... I think that this change just makes sense, a metal shouldnt be able to deal bludgeon or pericing damage if the weapon in question is a Kukri or any other slasher and visa versa.

Im not saying Im thrilled about this change, Im just saying I could care less.




Ps; About Transmuting Greater Evil Outsider bane(or any bane) weapons, they should still be quite valuable correct? Since Flametouched Iron and Silver/Cold Iron are all metalic properties, which means they should bypass most any DR/ as long as it isnt restricted to Bludgeon/Perice/Slash.

Not really, I mean they won't be worthless of course but they are relegated to trash mob dps because they can't bypass Good on DR. And even with the con damage nerf, who is gonna DPS trash mobs? most are just gonna vorp.

[Borror0]

There is always going to be a best weapon, and the nature of an mmo is that people WILL grind it out and get it.

In a properly balanced game, there is not an "ultimate weapon" but multiple solid weapons with different purpose.

There is no reason that at level 16-20 I can't have a set of weapons that ONLY REDUCE THE NUMBER OF INVENTORY SLOTS I have to use on my melee.

Mineral II still does that, only less than before.

Not really, I mean they won't be worthless of course but they are relegated to trash mob dps because they can't bypass Good on DR.

Your Mineral II weapon has neither Holy nor Good Burst? Or are you talking abut Transmuting Banes?

most are just gonna vorp.

You don't know that yet.

[Deathseeker]

Wow, talk about a lot of overreaction.

I think this is actually a good change. Transmuting was overpowered IMO. This will now make more random loot possibilities more valuable. That means more reason to pop random chests.

Yes, transmuting of greater banes got hammered. That's a bummer. But it opens up combos that transmuting made obsolete/irrelevant before.

I suspect some of the complaint regarding this change is not a result of deep concern for the game's design, but rather self-focused concern regarding a few very valuable weapons that just got hammered (transmuting of grt banes) and the minor hit to Min II (which was needed IMO).

[Lorien_the_First_One]

I ran the shroud for a very long time before I had enough ingredients for my first T3 GS blade. Even longer before I could afford one for my second melee. During that time I ran mostly with a straight transmuter - its the best I had. I mentioned it to a guildy during a shroud run and they lend me a trans of PG and then took pitty and told me to keep it...but I keep thinking how relatively useless my chars would have been during that 6-9 months between the shroud comming out and getting a T3/donated TofPG if transmuters hadn't worked on Harry.

Now moving forward some players will have no problem comming up with a blunt, puncturing, and slicing GS weapon set, but that's out of my price range

This is a very sad change for those who don't have a perfectly stocked armory.

[xman26]

Wow, talk about a lot of overreaction.

I think this is actually a good change. Transmuting was overpowered IMO. This will now make more random loot possibilities more valuable. That means more reason to pop random chests.

Yes, transmuting of greater banes got hammered. That's a bummer. But it opens up combos that transmuting made obsolete/irrelevant before.

I suspect some of the complaint regarding this change is not a result of deep concern for the game's design, but rather self-focused concern regarding a few very valuable weapons that just got hammered (transmuting of grt banes) and the minor hit to Min II (which was needed IMO).

Spoken like a power gamer with nothing but time on his hands. Weekend warroirs get thuroughly screwed with this change.

[Borror0]

Spoken like a power gamer with nothing but time on his hands. Weekend warroirs get thuroughly screwed with this change.

Instead of being ranting, you should be offering suggestions to fix this. This nerf only makes more obvious a problem that was already there.

[Eladrin]

The logic here I understand, however, there is a material that allows weapons to break dr/good (flametouched iron): why exactly can transmuting weapons not become flametouched iron and break dr/good? Is this an intentional nerf of transmuting, or an oversight regarding the material?

We had this discussion internally, and the end consensus was that our transmuting weapons would be able to bypass material based damage reduction - if something possessed DR/Flametouched Iron, DR/Aluminum, or even DR/Wood, it would be vulnerable to the weapon.

Transmuting weapons do not gain all of the properties of the materials they resemble, such as Adamantine's extreme hardness or Mithral's light weight, so we ended up deciding that neither do they gain Flametouched Iron's abilities to bypass DR/Good or to grant conditional saving throw bonuses nor Greensteel's ability to bypass DR/Evil or eat one's face.