Monk Capstone: Serenity Preview

[Solmage]

Ultimately, I don't have a huge problem with rewarding people for staying pure class. It's not very D&D, but at the end of the day, it's ok.

The only things I think should be added first are:

Ring of evasion -- too powerful of an ability currently, it'd be nice to plan around having it without a splash.

Respec system -- Needs no summary.

I really think both of those things would benefit the game in the long run.

I strongly disagree with a ring of evasion - it completely nerfs a lot of classes, what's next ring of barb crit II and ring of 5 favored enemies to go with it?

[bobbryan2]

I strongly disagree with a ring of evasion - it completely nerfs a lot of classes, what's next ring of barb crit II and ring of 5 favored enemies to go with it?

Except that the ring of evasion is a classic classic D&D item. And it wouldn't nerf classes, it would nerf 2 splash classes that shouldn't be as popular as they are anyway.

[Borror0]

I strongly disagree with a ring of evasion - it makes splashing two levels of rogue or monk less attractive, what's next ring of Fast Movement and ring of Two-Weapon Fighting to go with it?

Fixed.

[TreknaQudane]

Fixed.

Evasion is a powerful ability, if you want it, you should have to multiclass to get it, not wear a ring.

[Borror0]

Evasion is a powerful ability, if you want it, you should have to multiclass to get it, not wear a ring.

Why should I? Especially when it has became so important.

Sacrificing an item slot can be a decent penalty, mostly when you consider there are plenty of reasons to splash monk or rogue as is.

[Inspire]

Oh, trust me, that part is more powerful than people think it is, hehe

Ki generation is still every 6 seconds. However, like Eladrin pointed out in the OP, that also means you stabilize higher than before. By upping your regeneration by 1, that will means you will stabilize at twice your Concentration score. Basically, if your Concentration score would be 60, you would regain 2 Ki per 6 seconds while under 60 and 1 Ki per 6 seconds between 60 Ki and 120 Ki where it would finally stabilize.

At least, that is how I understand it.

I am understanding it as;

Your concentraion is increased by 10 and thus you stabilize at a higher base "Ki", with that it means your "Ki" degeneration is slower when you have over your limit or base "Ki". The generation will only bring you to your base "Ki" and not your stalemate(-1) point.

[Korvek]

Fixed.

Substitute Barbarian Rage for Fast Movement and a single favored enemy type(randomly generated of course) on the ring and it's a bit more even.

While I personally dislike the idea of a Ring of Evasion, it could be a bit more reasonable if it granted characters that already had Evasion Improved Evasion instead, freeing up a class feat for rogues and helping both rangers and those builds that already splashed levels into rogue or monk.

That would leave Monks, and I really don't know how the item could be adjusted such that they still benefit from it.

[Borror0]

I am understanding it as

Right, as it would take +2 to achieve what I said.

[QuantumFX]

Why should I? Especially when it has became so important.

Not to mention that Evasion is MUCH more prevalant in P&P than here in DDO. I counted over 36 base and Prestige classes (PHB/DMG/Complete books) that grant evasion/improved evasion in the 3.5 P&P sourcebooks.

Sacrificing an item slot can be a decent penalty, mostly when you consider there are plenty of reasons to splash monk or rogue as is.

Also you're having to give up one of the most powerful slots in both D&D and DDO. The ring slot has practically every enchantment available to it and has the most number of exclusive special effects.

[binnsr]

I'm sorry, but ever since I hit devtracker and saw this Enhancement announced, I can't get this out of my head..

Serenity Now!

[SableShadow]

I have a feeling some are going to be upset they splashed another class when other capstones come out.

Just like any other mod, really. There's always going to be a group of people making lists of what's uber and what's gimp for the current mod, and excluding what's gimp (in there opinion) from groups in favor of what's uber.

*shrug*

[Borror0]

Just like any other mod, really. There's always going to be a group of people making lists of what's uber and what's gimp for the current mod, and excluding what's gimp (in there opinion) from groups in favor of what's uber.

But all is fine for as long as they are making a fuss for nothing and you can just roll eyes at them.

Sometimes there is really noise to make.

[SableShadow]

But all is fine for as long as they are making a fuss for nothing and you can just roll eyes at them.

Sometimes there is really noise to make.

Sure. Once the devs figured out that rogue's didn't need more damage, didn't need more uber trapped quests, but needed agro management tools instead, I stopped posting rogue luv threads.

I'm hoping mod 9 doesn't bring anything new as far as maximum power...so, no +7 stat items, no +6 weapons, etc etc. Just flatten things out a little and bring best spec a little bit closer to the average spec.

Or maybe you were really saying "Don't be a tool, Sable." ... it's ok, I know I can be sometimes.

[Borror0]

Once the devs figured out that rogue's didn't need more damage, didn't need more uber trapped quests, but needed agro management tools instead, I stopped posting rogue luv threads.

Rogues don't really need more damage. You guys are quite uber the way you are... although new ways of doing damage could be cool. I don't have any ideas myself but I am sure someone just has a cool idea laying around or maybe even something out of PnP. But you don't really need more damage.

You don't need uber trapped quest. We could use cooler traps though.

...as for aggro managements, that wouldn't be a bad thing.

I'm hoping mod 9 doesn't bring anything new as far as maximum power...so, no +7 stat items, no +6 weapons, etc etc. Just flatten things out a little and bring best spec a little bit closer to the average spec.

So do I.

As for the tool comment. I never fully grasp the meaning of that slang.

[Junts]

Not to mention that Evasion is MUCH more prevalant in P&P than here in DDO. I counted over 36 base and Prestige classes (PHB/DMG/Complete books) that grant evasion/improved evasion in the 3.5 P&P sourcebooks.



Also you're having to give up one of the most powerful slots in both D&D and DDO. The ring slot has practically every enchantment available to it and has the most number of exclusive special effects.

evasion is overly good here because of our buffing. evasion tends to help negate direct damage, save vs half spells (lightning bolt, fireball, etc)


just for comparison's sake, lets take a somewhat less common, but more prestigious feat from 3.5, the counterpart to evasion: mettle (when you make a fort or will save for a spell that is half or partial, you take no effect).

In pnp, this is an awesome ability, and they dole it out a lot less often than they do evasion or improved evasion.

in ddo, this is a feat most people wouldn't take, because most fort and will saves are entirely negated through buffs: greater heroism vs fear, neutralize poison vs poison, heroes feast/disease imm items vs disease, death ward vs finger, pk, et cetera.

if they simply made fort and will saves more relevant to ddo, it would go a long way to making evasion based toons less relevant in comparison to toons with great fort or will saves (clerics gain the most here, and fighter-types, with fort/will being so high). because we can negate those abilities entirely, im pretty sure most people wouldn't even take mettle.

in pnp, its extraordinary

[SableShadow]

Rogues don't really need more damage. You guys are quite uber the way you are... although new ways of doing damage could be cool. I don't have any ideas myself but I am sure someone just has a cool idea laying around or maybe even something out of PnP. But you don't really need more damage.

You don't need uber trapped quest. We could use cooler traps though.

...as for aggro managements, that wouldn't be a bad thing.

I was using past tense; it's all there now, really, at least in my opinion. Now as long as no one in dev land has the "I know! Let's give all the mobs in Mod 9 heavy fortification!" brainstorm, the class will be fine in Mod 9.

Heck, if it's all undead in Mod 9, I won't be happy, but at least I'll only have to carry around one set of greater banes instead of having to scare up multiple sets to remain viable.

I've got a level of bard, so I'll never get the Capstone enhancement for rogues. *shrug*

Brenna's survived 8 mods now, still the 28pt elf I built to play casually with friends; not best spec, never has been, but I seem to manage well enough by playing to her strengths and covering her weaknesses.

As for the tool comment. I never fully grasp the meaning of that slang.

I use it in the sense of "unnecessarily rude", "unreasonable", and "unfair" mixed together. I know a fair number of rhetorical strategies and, when my dander is up and/or I've have too much alcohol in my bloodstream, I start hitting below the belt.

Not something I'm particularly proud of, just something I know I do.

[SableShadow]

if they simply made fort and will saves more relevant to ddo, it would go a long way to making evasion based toons less relevant in comparison to toons with great fort or will saves (clerics gain the most here, and fighter-types, with fort/will being so high). because we can negate those abilities entirely, im pretty sure most people wouldn't even take mettle.

There was a time when the most dangerous thing we fought were beholders and stat damagers were rare. So...folks wanted that undispellable high strength DPS and high fort saves.

I still remember the "Who would take a rogue into Invaders!" thread, and when rangers got picked for quests only if you couldn't get anything else.

[bobbryan2]

I

Brenna's survived 8 mods now, still the 28pt elf I built to play casually with friends; not best spec, never has been, but I seem to manage well enough by playing to her strengths and covering her weaknesses.

I have a 28 pt build that's survived. I also don't play him often, because I've built people I enjoy more based on the new rules.

I do understand that metagaming is a fact of life in MMOs, and that there will be a new build du jour when updates are released.

But that doesn't immediately mean that all change is good. Or that I have to like having to regret taking a level of fighter.

[esoitl]

Tell us what you think huh?

This particular enhancement looks nice. That being said, I still think 20th level enhancements are a bad idea without respecs.

The only basis player build makers have to go off of is D&D rules and classes. And barely any of those have huge bonuses for hitting 20th in a class.

I think it has been knowledge for a while that there was going to be a 20th level enhancement for each class. If you decided to ignore that and multi-class, well tough luck now deal with it.

Even if it wasn't public knowledge I think a bit of common sense was going to lead us to think with the current paths that what we have will only get stronger and there will be some big ones donw the line in the higher levels.
Deal with it.

[bobbryan2]

I think it has been knowledge for a while that there was going to be a 20th level enhancement for each class. If you decided to ignore that and multi-class, well tough luck now deal with it.

Even if it wasn't public knowledge I think a bit of common sense was going to lead us to think with the current paths that what we have will only get stronger and there will be some big ones donw the line in the higher levels.
Deal with it.

It wasn't public knowledge, first of all. It's a recent development that someone has said otherwise.

And it never was common sense, because looking at D&D character progressions, it's not there for most classes.