New Favor rewards. The end of 28 point characters.

[Xyfiel]

Here is my idea.

1) All accounts start with Drow/32 point builds. There are no more 28's.
2) All current 28's will be able to go to an NPC(FRED?), and readjust their starting stats.
3) A new total favor system will be put in place. I favor the idea of it being strictly character based.
500= +1 skill points(Can't go over maximum for skill/level), +1 slot
1000= +1 tome
1500= +2 tome, +1 slot
2000= +2 skill points(Can't go over maximum for skill/level)
2500= +1 feat

The current people with 1750+ on 28's get some new rewards and 4 more build points.
The current 32's get some new rewards.
Any new/returning players no longer feel jaded over 4 build points. All things are now equal.
You still earn rewards, so those of us who have high favor would benefit. The main difference is, new players don't have to reroll.
The fact that they want to is another topic, but it is keeping people from playing.

Elaborating on the skill points. If you have 19 ranks in UMD, you dont get 3 more for 22. You already are at max/level. If you had 16 ranks and wanted to spend 3 in it, you could. Of course the rewards are open for suggestions, just keep them char specific.

[Cinwulf]

I don't think people should start out with 32 pt builds. 1750 favor gives them something to work towards. Works fine as it is.

btw: how many points does it take to go from 18 to 20 , verses 24 to 26 in a stat?

[Dailus]

I don't think people should start out with 32 pt builds. 1750 favor gives them something to work towards. Works fine as it is.

btw: how many points does it take to go from 18 to 20 , verses 24 to 26 in a stat?

Agreed. If Turbine gave everyone 32 point builds to start after I worked for 2 years to unlock it I would be seriously upset.
Something like that would be akin to what SOE did with Jedi and lets just say I'll never play an SOE game again.

-Dailus

[Aspenor]

The only way I would accept this is if current 28 point characters were given 32 points and a rollback to reassign stat points, skill points, feats, and enhancements.

Essentially a full character respec.

In other words, /notsigned

[Shaamis]

The only way I would accept this is if current 28 point characters were given 32 points and a rollback to reassign stat points, skill points, feats, and enhancements.

Essentially a full character respec.

In other words, /notsigned

that would never happen, essentially killing that notion.

My 1750 character Shaams is being planned on getting a re-roll to be a 32-point dwarven monk (drunken style of course), and if I could respec him, it would take moths of work, and turn it into an hour.

Turbine wouldn't cut them out of that income, just so some impatient (some might say lazy) newcomers don't want to "earn" it

[MerlinSylver]

Honestly, I don't understand why the everyone thinks the 32 point build is really that much better than a 28. In game terms, this only equates to an addition +1 in two low stats, or an additional +2 in a single low stat, or an additional +1 in a high stat. In a D20 system, each +1 only accounts for a 5% increase in effectiveness... which means that all that work to get to 1750 equals (at most) a 10% increase in the effectiveness of a single stat. The only way I can see a 32 point build working better is if it all went into Intelligence, thus greatly increasing the number of skill points you will get.

Dont get me wrong, when I reach that level of favor, I will enjoy using those extra points on my new characters, but I don't beleive that it will help that character be markedly better than the ones I already have with a 28 pt. Build.

I like the idea of making favor rewards be character specific. Or, if not this, then make "Total Favor" span all accounts, so that people who prefer to play lowbies can get in on the rewards.

Or, they could leave it just as it is, and I will continue to play.

[Horrorscope]

Does anyone actually think this is open to debate from Turbine? I don't even consider this 28/32 point characters an issue in the slightest and perhaps a feature.

[Aspenor]

that would never happen, essentially killing that notion.

My 1750 character Shaams is being planned on getting a re-roll to be a 32-point dwarven monk (drunken style of course), and if I could respec him, it would take moths of work, and turn it into an hour.

Turbine wouldn't cut them out of that income, just so some impatient (some might say lazy) newcomers don't want to "earn" it

I know. Hence that last little statement in the post.

What I really don't understand is why some people insist on making 32 point builds so easily available, or the desire to remold their 28's into 32. Okay well maybe I understand the desire, but not the insistence.

My main character is a 28 point human sorcerer that I rolled on a server not of my home server, and later transferred to my home server which had 32 points available all along. I killed my 32 point version of him, because I didn't feel like raid loot grinding all over again for a second character just for a few more hit points. My 28 point does MORE than fine. I guarantee nobody can tell whether I'm running with a 32 point or a 28 point if I didn't tell them.

[Xyfiel]

"I don't think people should start out with 32 pt builds. 1750 favor gives them something to work towards. Works fine as it is."

So implement a different reward. Theory is the same. It doesn't work fine as is because people refuse to play under the current system. Make it char specific instead of server rewards.



"Agreed. If Turbine gave everyone 32 point builds to start after I worked for 2 years to unlock it I would be seriously upset.
Something like that would be akin to what SOE did with Jedi and lets just say I'll never play an SOE game again."

Well if the reward was changed you would still have your reward, and they wouldn't. Then what is your complaint?
Is the fact I played a caster back in the day of level 10 cap, when I was a haste/web bot half the time, mean everyone should have to do that?


"The only way I would accept this is if current 28 point characters were given 32 points and a rollback to reassign stat points, skill points, feats, and enhancements.

Essentially a full character respec."

I said as much. It would be unfair otherwise.


The point is to discuss a fair alternative to the current system that doesn't deter new players, or we can discuss how our ego's would get hurt if someone else got something we didn't. Long term benefits. How many other things have been changed since release that people complained and moaned about that ended up better in the long term? Last year WOW made it easier to level
from 1-60. What was their purpose? Allowing new players to catch up quicker to the ones who had been around for a couple years. Also allowed current players to try a different character and get past the boring feeling of repetition. Win/win situation.
My idea is not the best, but at least discuss the possibility. We sure are not winning people over with our selfish ways.

[Kreaper]

/ not signed

Let them EARN 32 point builds just like we did.

And Merlin is right. There is not enough difference between 32 point builds and 28 point builds to warrant this kind of change. And if the new players want to whine about it, remind them that EVERYONE with a 32 point build EARNED it with a 28 point build and we did a lot of it back when you couldn't even swing a weapon while jumping! And we were in seven feet of snow to boot!

[Cinwulf]

It doesn't work fine as is because people refuse to play under the current system.

Where do you get that?

[Aspenor]

/ not signed

Let them EARN 32 point builds just like we did.

And Merlin is right. There is not enough difference between 32 point builds and 28 point builds to warrant this kind of change. And if the new players want to whine about it, remind them that EVERYONE with a 32 point build EARNED it and we did a lot of it back when you couldn't even swing a weapon while jumping! And we were in seven feet of snow to boot!

And we had a fraction of the quests available to earn the favor from, which were worth much less favor than the quests that have been released since then.

[Oreg]

/not signed.

way too easy.

There may be a compromise but this one is way extreme

[Cairo]

So let me get this straight. You feel that having to unlock Drow and 32 pt builds is unfair, its unbalancing for newer players who dont have access to that yet.

So your suggestion is to change favor rewards to equal +3 to any stat, extra skill points, AND a FREE FEAT??

Are you insane? Did you even read your own suggestion?

You dont want to get favor to get 4 stat points (which would take an 18 to a 19), but you see nothing wrong with being able to get favor to take an 18 to a 19, AND another 18 to a 20, then toss on an extra feat?

Good gracious man..

[Shaamis]

Honestly, I don't understand why the everyone thinks the 32 point build is really that much better than a 28. In game terms, this only equates to an addition +1 in two low stats, or an additional +2 in a single low stat, or an additional +1 in a high stat. In a D20 system, each +1 only accounts for a 5% increase in effectiveness... which means that all that work to get to 1750 equals (at most) a 10% increase in the effectiveness of a single stat. The only way I can see a 32 point build working better is if it all went into Intelligence, thus greatly increasing the number of skill points you will get.

Dont get me wrong, when I reach that level of favor, I will enjoy using those extra points on my new characters, but I don't beleive that it will help that character be markedly better than the ones I already have with a 28 pt. Build.

I like the idea of making favor rewards be character specific. Or, if not this, then make "Total Favor" span all accounts, so that people who prefer to play lowbies can get in on the rewards.

Or, they could leave it just as it is, and I will continue to play.

The 4 additional points makes crazy builds like Warchanters, and Battleclerics more possible.

I said more possible, they are definatly possible with 28 point builds, but the stat heavy class combos are so thin on stats, makes it hard to be competitive at teh highest levels in DDO.

It also helps up the confidence of the player. Who wants to play a character they arent excited to play? part of that is the stats. whether the stats are lame, or great, for some people, will mean if they even play that character or not.

All characters are playable, even a flat 10s across the board is playable, but in our minds we want to play heroes, not average joes.

[nbhs275]

Honestly, I don't understand why the everyone thinks the 32 point build is really that much better than a 28. In game terms, this only equates to an addition +1 in two low stats, or an additional +2 in a single low stat, or an additional +1 in a high stat. In a D20 system, each +1 only accounts for a 5% increase in effectiveness... which means that all that work to get to 1750 equals (at most) a 10% increase in the effectiveness of a single stat. The only way I can see a 32 point build working better is if it all went into Intelligence, thus greatly increasing the number of skill points you will get.

Dont get me wrong, when I reach that level of favor, I will enjoy using those extra points on my new characters, but I don't beleive that it will help that character be markedly better than the ones I already have with a 28 pt. Build.

I like the idea of making favor rewards be character specific. Or, if not this, then make "Total Favor" span all accounts, so that people who prefer to play lowbies can get in on the rewards.

Or, they could leave it just as it is, and I will continue to play.

Yea, each +1 does NOT always equal 5%.. Plain and simple. A fighter going from 20 str to 22 is big. +1 tohit, another 2 damage on a 2hnader. Thats +1 makes a rather signifigent change. Considering a fighter would otherwise have to spend 2 feats to get that.


As far as the OP, no way. First, there is quite a few builds out there that really dont need skill points even, other then the passing minor check. +1 tomes are basically free at this point. No one goes "oooh, you got a +1 cha tome you lucky bastard!". Because they arent hard to find. The new player can get them the same way everyone else did, they already got a free break with djinni cake.

an extra feat? yea, because all those fighter 16s out there need another one.


What i think we have here is a jerk with a 28 point rogue with no tomes, who screwed up his skills, and cant manage to fit in the skill focus: mooch feat that he oh so desperatly needs.

[Oreg]

All characters are playable, even a flat 10s across the board is playable, but in our minds we want to play heroes, not average joes.

Someone should bring Nat Gan up to speed on that.

[Horrorscope]

The 4 additional points makes crazy builds like Warchanters, and Battleclerics more possible.

I said more possible, they are definatly possible with 28 point builds, but the stat heavy class combos are so thin on stats, makes it hard to be competitive at teh highest levels in DDO.

It also helps up the confidence of the player. Who wants to play a character they arent excited to play? part of that is the stats. whether the stats are lame, or great, for some people, will mean if they even play that character or not.

All characters are playable, even a flat 10s across the board is playable, but in our minds we want to play heroes, not average joes.

Sounds like some therapy classes are needed and/or a pair grown. Who's playing a flat 10? That is right no one.

[roadkill525]

Yea, each +1 does NOT always equal 5%.. Plain and simple. A fighter going from 20 str to 22 is big. +1 tohit, another 2 damage on a 2hnader. Thats +1 makes a rather signifigent change. Considering a fighter would otherwise have to spend 2 feats to get that.


As far as the OP, no way. First, there is quite a few builds out there that really dont need skill points even, other then the passing minor check. +1 tomes are basically free at this point. No one goes "oooh, you got a +1 cha tome you lucky bastard!". Because they arent hard to find. The new player can get them the same way everyone else did, they already got a free break with djinni cake.

an extra feat? yea, because all those fighter 16s out there need another one.


What i think we have here is a jerk with a 28 point rogue with no tomes, who screwed up his skills, and cant manage to fit in the skill focus: mooch feat that he oh so desperatly needs.

what is this free break djinni cake? where would I get one?

[Razvan]

The 4 additional points makes crazy builds like Warchanters, and Battleclerics more possible.

I said more possible, they are definatly possible with 28 point builds, but the stat heavy class combos are so thin on stats, makes it hard to be competitive at teh highest levels in DDO.

It also helps up the confidence of the player. Who wants to play a character they arent excited to play? part of that is the stats. whether the stats are lame, or great, for some people, will mean if they even play that character or not.

All characters are playable, even a flat 10s across the board is playable, but in our minds we want to play heroes, not average joes.

It reeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaallllllyyyyyyy doesn't matter if you have 30 STR or 32 when you are wielding a +5 holy burst, acid blast Khopesh of azzkicking...

And it reeeeeeeeaaaaaaalllllyyyyyy doesn't matter if you have 2180 SP or 2090 SP.....