The Shroud: How to solve each puzzle in part 3.

[Heladron]

Well...one thing to keep in mind...I'm the one who put the solver up. The solver uses the exact same logic as the manual solving, it just takes it a step further to rationalize the solution to the simplest state. Before you start calling me a cheater and saying I need to rationalize using it because I can't do it manually, you should really know the person to whom you are speaking. Computers and software are there to make our lives easier, I write programs to do things that I don't want to do manually. It's not cheating, it's called being smart.

Sorry, but I've never said you were incapable of solving the puzzle with your brain. I also never directed my opinions on cheating at any specific person, but at everyone who cheats in general. If the shoe fits...

Writing software to automate work is not the same as writing software to automate winning. You've eliminated the possibility of failure in a game where the possibility of failure is designed in. You've created an unfair advantage to allow yourself and anyone who uses that software to succeed where you might otherwise have a chance of failure. How is it different from aiming bots in FPS games? It's like saying, "I don't like aiming so I use an aiming bot" or "I'm not good at aiming so I use an aiming bot."

I, too, write software for a living. The software I've written keeps everyones credit card number encrypted so if they fall into the wrong hands they won't be usable. My software has automated the testing of electrical circuits in hearing aids so that people with hearing problems can hear better, and with a large amount of certainty that it will be nearly a perfect match to their hearing loss. The software I've written has automated grading of tests at colleges around the country. I guess I can't say that I've ever written software to automate winning at a game.

All solvers are more than likely a violation of rule 19 in the Dungeons and Dragons Online code of conduct.

19. You may not create, post or distribute any utilities, emulators or other third party software tools without the express written permission of Turbine.

[jjflanigan]

Sorry, but I've never said you were incapable of solving the puzzle with your brain. I also never directed my opinions on cheating at any specific person, but at everyone who cheats in general. If the shoe fits...

Writing software to automate work is not the same as writing software to automate winning. You've eliminated the possibility of failure in a game where the possibility of failure is designed in. You've created an unfair advantage to allow yourself and anyone who uses that software to succeed where you might otherwise have a chance of failure. How is it different from aiming bots in FPS games? It's like saying, "I don't like aiming so I use an aiming bot" or "I'm not good at aiming so I use an aiming bot."

How is using an automated solver ANY different than using the "Cheat sheets" provided in this thread? If you use the sheets, which you've stated is an ok and "non-cheating" thing to do...you've eliminated all chance of failure. You've created an unfair advantage to allow yourself and anyone who uses the cheat sheets to succeed where you might otherwise have a chance of failure. It's like saying "I'm doing the exact same thing the software does, in the exact same pattern and have removed all chance of failure, but because I'm doing it myself, it's different" -- If you don't like using solvers, that's fine -- but there's no difference between using a "cheat sheet" solver and a software designed "solver"

One *very important* fact that you gloss over -- you aren't "winning the game" you are bypassing a puzzle in the game. It has no impact on DDO itself whether or not you use the solver. Nice job making the personal attacks at me,though, by stating that your software is "more important" than what the software I write...especially when you have no idea what type of software I write for a living.

[Heladron]

How is using an automated solver ANY different than using the "Cheat sheets" provided in this thread? If you use the sheets, which you've stated is an ok and "non-cheating" thing to do...you've eliminated all chance of failure. You've created an unfair advantage to allow yourself and anyone who uses the cheat sheets to succeed where you might otherwise have a chance of failure. It's like saying "I'm doing the exact same thing the software does, in the exact same pattern and have removed all chance of failure, but because I'm doing it myself, it's different" -- If you don't like using solvers, that's fine -- but there's no difference between using a "cheat sheet" solver and a software designed "solver"

One *very important* fact that you gloss over -- you aren't "winning the game" you are bypassing a puzzle in the game. It has no impact on DDO itself whether or not you use the solver. Nice job making the personal attacks at me,though, by stating that your software is "more important" than what the software I write...especially when you have no idea what type of software I write for a living.

The difference between using an algorithm that someone has taught you and using software to applying an algorithm you don't even comprehend is completely different.

Okay, I'll concede that you aren't winning the game. Big Deal! If it makes you feel good then do it man. I'd like to see anybody use a "solver" in any casino in Vegas and find out what happens. Try convincing the casino that you aren't cheating. Just explain to them how smart you are for bypassing the losing combinations in the slot machine. Tell them how it makes life so much easier. Perhaps they won't take you for a tour of the Nevada desert and perhaps you'll only be banned from the casino. I bet you'd see things a lot differently when the stakes are much higher.

People who don't cheat aren't more perfect or without any faults. This might not even be about morality, maybe it's just about having some pride in everything you do. If you take pride in using the solvers then great. I guess I just expect more and have higher expectations and want a good challenge even when I'm not equipped for it. If failing once in a while hurts that much then the link that jj posted is just right for you. Enjoy.

[jjflanigan]

The difference between using an algorithm that someone has taught you and using software to applying an algorithm you don't even comprehend is completely different.

Okay, I'll concede that you aren't winning the game. Big Deal! If it makes you feel good then do it man. I'd like to see anybody use a "solver" in any casino in Vegas and find out what happens. Try convincing the casino that you aren't cheating. Just explain to them how smart you are for bypassing the losing combinations in the slot machine. Tell them how it makes life so much easier. Perhaps they won't take you for a tour of the Nevada desert and perhaps you'll only be banned from the casino. I bet you'd see things a lot differently when the stakes are much higher.

People who don't cheat aren't more perfect or without any faults. This might not even be about morality, maybe it's just about having some pride in everything you do. If you take pride in using the solvers then great. I guess I just expect more and have higher expectations and want a good challenge even when I'm not equipped for it. If failing once in a while hurts that much then the link that jj posted is just right for you. Enjoy.

I use a solver every time I go to a casino -- it's called counting cards. Same difference, it's using something to give yourself an unfair advantage. Either way, you've made up your mind that you are better because you don't use a solver and are tossing about backhanded insults, so there's no point in degrading this thread any further. There are multiple methods to solve the puzzles, use the one that you want to use and enjoy the game how you want to enjoy it.

[bobbryan2]

Sorry, but I've never said you were incapable of solving the puzzle with your brain. I also never directed my opinions on cheating at any specific person, but at everyone who cheats in general. If the shoe fits...

Writing software to automate work is not the same as writing software to automate winning. You've eliminated the possibility of failure in a game where the possibility of failure is designed in. You've created an unfair advantage to allow yourself and anyone who uses that software to succeed where you might otherwise have a chance of failure. How is it different from aiming bots in FPS games? It's like saying, "I don't like aiming so I use an aiming bot" or "I'm not good at aiming so I use an aiming bot."

I, too, write software for a living. The software I've written keeps everyones credit card number encrypted so if they fall into the wrong hands they won't be usable. My software has automated the testing of electrical circuits in hearing aids so that people with hearing problems can hear better, and with a large amount of certainty that it will be nearly a perfect match to their hearing loss. The software I've written has automated grading of tests at colleges around the country. I guess I can't say that I've ever written software to automate winning at a game.

All solvers are more than likely a violation of rule 18 in the Dungeons and Dragons Online code of conduct.

18. You may not create, post or distribute any utilities, emulators or other third party software tools without the express written permission of Turbine.

Using cheat sheets and solver programs are functionally equivalent. I don't see how you can be for calculators but against graphing calculators.

[Laith]

Using cheat sheets and solver programs are functionally equivalent.

Better not look at posted map, strategy, build, recipe, or static loot threads either.
All sorts of unfair advantages to be gained on these here forums.

Thanks for the thread eye. applied one for lights out i found a while back, and it worked pretty well.

Ultimately though, i just don't like the game (lights out) all that much, so i use the solver. Didn't like it in Rest for the Restless or The Pit either, even when it was super-easy.
I really like mastermind though... so i do that with my own algorithm every time.

I LOVE that they keep putting puzzles in... but the fact is, every player isn't going to get and enjoy every puzzle in the game.

[aldan]

Who out there has the time to learn all this garbage. I dont, I love when uber guilds finish first and give me the solves, saves me time and I like it. I enjoy the experience of the quest but dont need the satisfation of "being the first" to have a good time.

Do whatever you do to have fun and ignore the rest.

[Wizzly_Bear]

19. You may not create, post or distribute any utilities, emulators or other third party software tools without the express written permission of Turbine.

hmm, reckon i better not use that character planner thing anymore then huh

[iFreak]

Sorry, but I've never said you were incapable of solving the puzzle with your brain. I also never directed my opinions on cheating at any specific person, but at everyone who cheats in general. If the shoe fits...

Writing software to automate work is not the same as writing software to automate winning. You've eliminated the possibility of failure in a game where the possibility of failure is designed in. You've created an unfair advantage to allow yourself and anyone who uses that software to succeed where you might otherwise have a chance of failure. How is it different from aiming bots in FPS games? It's like saying, "I don't like aiming so I use an aiming bot" or "I'm not good at aiming so I use an aiming bot."

I, too, write software for a living. The software I've written keeps everyones credit card number encrypted so if they fall into the wrong hands they won't be usable. My software has automated the testing of electrical circuits in hearing aids so that people with hearing problems can hear better, and with a large amount of certainty that it will be nearly a perfect match to their hearing loss. The software I've written has automated grading of tests at colleges around the country. I guess I can't say that I've ever written software to automate winning at a game.

All solvers are more than likely a violation of rule 19 in the Dungeons and Dragons Online code of conduct.

19. You may not create, post or distribute any utilities, emulators or other third party software tools without the express written permission of Turbine.

Why do u make software to keep other ppls credit cards encrypted let them figure it out for themselves. By the same note you are cheating by using the mathematics that another person figured out, you should have figured it out on you're own.

I have a question? Did u figure out how to build the car u drive or did u buy it? Did u figure out how to drive on ur own or did some1 pass on there knowledge to you?

This solver is one person passing on their knowledge do others so they can benefit from it just as u have from the world inventors and great thinkers.

Look at yourself before u point a finger.