Give Halflings a Favored Melee Weapon

[maddmatt70]

Every other race either has a favored melee weapon (dwarves, elfs, or drow) or something specific to that class that increases that races possible damage (wf have power attack enhancements, humans a potential +1 to strength and versatility boost), but halflings have a -2 to strength and they don't have a means to increase their dps. Why? This is something that I just don't understand. I would love to see any type of melee weapon the scimitar, kukri, etc be favored as I would like to see a bonus to hit for halflings as well, but I am open to other possiblities... Maybe sneak damage enhancements, etc..

In the alternative Halflings could be the save/hardy race but they give dwarves spell defense and toughness, elves enchantment saves, wf get more con and dr gear, and humans the extra feat which can be spent on offense or defense. Really if they are going to add the next set of favored weapon ehancement chains to the other races (+3 to hit and to damage) they need to either increase halflings defensive capability through enhancements or better yet their offensive capabilities through enhancements..

[BUpcott]

+1 to hit, +1 AC, +1 on all saves, + 2 on fear save rolls, +1 with thrown, hero's companion, another possible +3 to each save

Halflings are amazing as is, but I would gladly accept changes that made them better.

[maddmatt70]

Dwarf's spell defense 3 cost 12 less enhancements then the halfling saves enhancment and is usuable in about 85% of the scenarios in game where the halfling bonus saves enhancements are. Elves get the elven enhcantment line which although not as useful as the halfling will save bonus mitigates the halflings advantage there.

Halflings +1 to hit comes at a price of -1 or -2 to damage that is if the halfling spends a feat on weapon finesse otherwise it is a gain of zero to hit and with a neg to damage. Dont even try to tell me that halfling cunning makes up for this lack of + to hit as it is an expensive less effective enhancement chain..

NO DAMAGE BONUSES: every other race gets something that gives a damage bonus so why not halflings..

Warforged get damage reduction, dwarfs get toughness and armor mastery, humans get a feat and extra ability score point, dwarves and warforged get con...



Hero's companion is range near and currently non functionable and even if they made it functional constantly throwing out short buffs 20 sec on another party member - yuck for a melee..

[Angelus_dead]

I would love to see any type of melee weapon the scimitar, kukri, etc be favored as I would like to see a bonus to hit for halflings as well, but I am open to other possiblities... Maybe sneak damage enhancements, etc..

I strongly suggest that Halflings be given any "throwable" weapon as having enhancements for attack and damage. That means they'd get bonuses on melee strikes with daggers, handaxes, and light hammers (in addition to thrown daggers, thrown axes, thrown hammers, darts, and shuriken).

However, if that were done they'd also need to figure a way to give humans and warforged a similar boost, and it's harder to picture weapons appropriate to those races.

[Angelus_dead]

Hero's companion is range near and currently non functionable and even if they made it functional constantly throwing out short buffs 20 sec on another party member - yuck for a melee..

You're right, it's just crazy that Hero's Companion is a 20 sec buff with a 2 sec casting time, and a very limited range. Most spells don't even take that long to cast! Unless they increase the range and make it cast instantly, that enhancement is worthless.

It shouldn't be any slower than Lay On Hands.

[Mhykke]

You're right, it's just crazy that Hero's Companion is a 20 sec buff with a 2 sec casting time, and a very limited range. Most spells don't even take that long to cast! Unless they increase the range and make it cast instantly, that enhancement is worthless.

It shouldn't be any slower than Lay On Hands.

I'm pretty sure the devs said they were looking into the range or speeding it up, a while back..

[Vormaerin]

Sorry, halflings are quite good as they are. And they have the best dragonmark line by far. And the devs did throw halflings a couple bones: they don't have to use small weapons (ie use weapons that do less damage than the same named weapon used by a larger race) and they don't have to move slower on account of having such short legs. Both are true in regular D&D.

Dwarves get attack and damage bonuses that 1) cost enhancements and 2) for a weapon they might not even be proficient in. Elves' weapons are better, but they still have to pay enhancement points for those to hit bonuses. Halflings get +1 to hit with any weapon they want to use, +1 AC no matter what. +1 to all saves no matter what. NO enhancement cost.

If you are going to whine about the disadvantages of the -2 to Str, you need to factor in the advantages of a +2 Dex. That's another +1 AC and +1 to hit with thrown weapons or finesse weapons. A halfling without spending any enhancements is +3 better with thrown weapons than anyone except elves (whom they beat by +2).

Halflings don't have any favored melee weapons in D&D, so the devs didn't give them one in DDO. There's no real reason why they should have a melee combat bonus with any weapons in particular. They are quite effective as they are. Halflings excel at being rogues, not at being fighters.

[Angelus_dead]

If you are going to whine about the disadvantages of the -2 to Str, you need to factor in the advantages of a +2 Dex. That's another +1 AC and +1 to hit with thrown weapons or finesse weapons.

It's only +1 AC if you weren't capped by your armor... which basically means wearing a robe. And the only characters likely to use robes are wizards, sorcerers, rogues, and rangers- all of whom and better as an elf or drow. And, elf/drow get the same dex advantages.

Conversely, dwarves get a real AC bonus from their Armor Mastery enhancement line. That's a serious +3 for fighters and paladins- classes with enough AC to matter.

A halfling without spending any enhancements is +3 better with thrown weapons than anyone except elves (whom they beat by +2).

It would be nice if Turbine could adjust DDO so that the ability to throw weapons was useful, ever.

[Cold_Stele]

/Signed.

The other races need some enhancement love to make them as appealing as Dwarves.

Go to any of the melee forums and count the number of builds that aren't Dwarves (Rangers included!!!) - things have got way out of balance.

[Angelus_dead]

Halflings don't have any favored melee weapons in D&D, so the devs didn't give them one in DDO. There's no real reason why they should have a melee combat bonus with any weapons in particular. They are quite effective as they are. Halflings excel at being rogues, not at being fighters.

Halflings are almost the worst rogue in DDO, second only to Warforged.

Elf, drow, and dwarf are the top-tier rogues. Compared to a halfling they can get +3 damage with racially-favored melee weapons, making them a lot better in combat. They also can take enhancements for Search, important if you actually want to disarm elite traps.

Humans are secondary, because they have more skillpoints and a better Skill Action Boost, which can also help in combat.

Although halflings have the same dex as an elf, they don't have the weapon bonus or the search bonus. The only way halflings are better is at Hide and Move Silently. Unfortunately, there is very little use for stealth in DDO. If something changed to make those skills more valuable, then halflings would make better rogues. But today, they really don't. The players who make halfling rogues are doing it because of stereotypes.

[Angelus_dead]

Halflings don't have any favored melee weapons in D&D, so the devs didn't give them one in DDO. There's no real reason why they should have a melee combat bonus with any weapons in particular.

In D&D it is viable for a character to attack with thrown weapons as his main form of combat, especially if he's a rogue. A level 16 rogue gets 3 attacks per round with a rapier, or 3 attacks per round with a thrown weapon (assuming he spent a feat on either Quick Draw or Shuriken proficiency). And of course, his strength bonus and sneak attack damage applies equally.

But in DDO, there's simply no way to get your speed of attacks with thrown weapons to come close to what melee weapons can do. Even with the Quick Draw and Rapid Shot feats, attacking with a returning dagger will go less than half as fast as with a rapier.

This means that you can't claim that since a bonus with thrown weapons is enough for D&D halflings, DDO halflings should be satisfied with it too. Thrown attacks are inherently less powerful in DDO. This is reflected in that very many DDO elves and dwarves take the racial weapon enhancements, but barely any halflings do.

[EspyLacopa]

Elf, drow, and dwarf are the top-tier rogues. Compared to a halfling they can get +3 damage with racially-favored melee weapons, making them a lot better in combat.

+3? That's all?

First assumption: Sneak Attacks are where rogues deal their mad damage
Second assumption: Most Sneak Attacks are accomplished while flanking something

Halfling Rogue 14:
20 Base Dex + 6 Item + 5 Enhancements + 2 Tome + 3 Leveling = 36 Dex, for a +13 Dex Mod
10 BAB
+13 Dex
+5 Weapon
+5 Backstabbing (+5 Weapon Mainhand, Backstab +5 Weapon offhand)
+2 Normal Flanking
+3 Halfling Flanking
+1 Size
+4 G.Heroism
-2 Dual Wielding
----
Total of +41. The Drow, Elf, and Dwarf would be 1 less, since they'd lose the +3 halfling flanking and gain the weapon enhancement. Still doesn't get the Size bonus of course. The Dwarf would actually be another 1 lower since they only reach 18 starting Dex.

Damage?

Same halfling:
1d6+5 Base Weapon
+1 Str (12 str isn't hard to get, even for a halfling)
+8 Backstabbing
+7d6 Sneak Attack
+8 Sneak Attack Training
----
8d6+22 damage, +21 offhand due to half str in this case rounding down to +0

The Elf, Drow, and Dwarf, using the same number of action points, would lose out on the Sneak Attack Training, and thus gain only +4 damage, so they'd actually do 4 *less* damage. And even if they did still gain that as well, That's +4 damage. That's a whopping 8% more than the Halfling, at the cost of -1 Attack.

Sorry, but in terms of being the crazy combat rogue, Halflings reign supreme. Especially when you add in that they can attain just as much AC. . .

Halfling: ( 21 total )
+13 Dex
+7 Armor (+7 Armored Bracers)
+1 Size

Elf/Drow: ( 20 total )
+13 Dex
+7 Armor (+7 Armored Bracers)

Dwarf: ( 21 total )
+11 Dex ( With the Dwarven Armor Mastery III + Daggertooth Belt)
+10 Armor (Kundarak Delving Suit)

all other bits are the same, regardless of race.

[Cold_Stele]

+3? That's all?

It's actually +2.

You may not think that's a lot but it takes a poor Ftr a Wpn Spec feat to get that and that's half the only DPS benefit he gets over any other class.

Dwarf Axe Attack and Damage II cost 12 AP and yet are the equivalent to 3 Ftr feats taking 6 Ftr levels to earn.

Broken?

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Dagger.

[Cowdenicus]

According to news from the underground, the reasons why Halflings have not been upgraded until monks come out in mod 7 is here. LINK The Devs have been worried about the balance issues with Halfling monks.

[EinarMal]

I just wish they would allow TWF feats to work with thrown weapons (as they should). Then a halfling thrower build would be really cool and actually work well at high levels!

[Aranticus]

so..... when will halflings go back to using a longsword with 2 hands? i'd like to see that when halflings get upgraded, my human can use the actual reaver sword (not the cloudburst he use as a toothpick)

[EspyLacopa]

so..... when will halflings go back to using a longsword with 2 hands? i'd like to see that when halflings get upgraded, my human can use the actual reaver sword (not the cloudburst he use as a toothpick)

Correction, they'd use a Medium Longsword in two hands. And take a -2 penalty for doing so since it's weighted for use as a one-handed weapon.

If you actually want a two-handed sword in 3.5 ed on a halfling, you need a Small Greatsword. 2d4 damage instead of 2d6.

In 3.5, weapons have a size of creature they are designed to be used by(small, medium, and so on), as well as the effort said creature uses it (light, one handed, two handed). This means that a Medium Dagger (a light weapon for a human sized creature) would be a one-handed weapon for a small creature, and they suffer a -2 attack penalty.

And a Greatsword sized for a Storm Giant? Huge Greatsword can't be used by a Medium Creature, it's simply too big. Two Size Categories. Monkey Grip would only up the allowable size by 1 size category. And a Huge Dagger (light weapon for Huge creature, does 1d8 damage), would be a Two-handed weapon for a Medium creature along with a total attack penalty of -4.

[Aranticus]

Correction, they'd use a Medium Longsword in two hands. And take a -2 penalty for doing so since it's weighted for use as a one-handed weapon.

If you actually want a two-handed sword in 3.5 ed on a halfling, you need a Small Greatsword. 2d4 damage instead of 2d6.

In 3.5, weapons have a size of creature they are designed to be used by(small, medium, and so on), as well as the effort said creature uses it (light, one handed, two handed). This means that a Medium Dagger (a light weapon for a human sized creature) would be a one-handed weapon for a small creature, and they suffer a -2 attack penalty.

yupz, they arnt taking any penalties atm in ddo and players take this for granted......

[EspyLacopa]

yupz, they arnt taking any penalties atm in ddo and players take this for granted......

Even with the *epic* feat, Wield Oversized Weapon (from the Complete Warrior) you couldn't use a Huge Greatsword on a Medium Character.