Any chance Combat Expertise fixed one day?

[Phaye]

I never understood why Combat Expertise was disabled when you cast a spell.

It's a combat stance in D&D that is a choice before each turn, and there is no mention of being de-activated when casting spells.

For example, Power Attack or Precision are not disabled by casting a spell...
I would say ok for Defensive Fighting (still should not been disabled by casting), but Combat Expertise should be available to Clerics/Paladins/Wizards too, but because they are spell casting classes they can't benefit from it?

Thanks for an answer on the reason of the deviation on the official rules of D&D on this one.

[Kraki]

I believe the reasoning on this was that a non-attacking (as in melee/ranged) caster could then get a +5 AC bonus at all times for essentially no penalty since they don't care about their to hit.

Good? Bad? Guess it could go either way on the rating. To me, it still costs a feat either way it works.

Kraki

[tihocan]

I believe the reasoning on this was that a non-attacking (as in melee/ranged) caster could then get a +5 AC bonus at all times for essentially no penalty since they don't care about their to hit.

Exactly.

[Phaye]

I believe the reasoning on this was that a non-attacking (as in melee/ranged) caster could then get a +5 AC bonus at all times for essentially no penalty since they don't care about their to hit.

Good? Bad? Guess it could go either way on the rating. To me, it still costs a feat either way it works.

Kraki

Well, many attacking melee take this feat, it's just a way of fighting "more defensivly". Why penalising casting melees just to be sure pure casters don't abuse it?
It cost them a feat after all, and I'm not sure that having +5 to AC mean a lot to a caster (for a precious feat).

[tihocan]

Well, many attacking melee take this feat, it's just a way of fighting "more defensivly". Why penalising casting melees just to be sure pure casters don't abuse it?

Can you think of a way that does not penalize casting melees without letting pure casters abuse it?

[Boulderun]

In PnP, you have to actually make an "attack" standard or full-round action to use Combat Expertise or Defensive Fighting. If you're casting spells or making a Heal check or picking locks or blowing your Perform check and getting run out of town by an angry drunken mob, you're not actually attacking.

[MysticTheurge]

It's a combat stance in D&D that is a choice before each turn, and there is no mention of being de-activated when casting spells.

This is not true at all.

When you use the attack action or the full attack action in melee, you can take a penalty of as much as -5 on your attack roll and add the same number (+5 or less) as a dodge bonus to your Armor Class. This number may not exceed your base attack bonus. The changes to attack rolls and Armor Class last until your next action.

The only rounds you can use CE in D&D are rounds in which you make an attack or full attack action. If you're casting a (non-quickened) spell in a round, then you're not making an attack or full attack action and therefore cannot use CE.

[Boulderun]

Can you think of a way that does not penalize casting melees without letting pure casters abuse it?

Perhaps the CE effect could be temporarily ignored for the duration of the spell cooldown that you cast, without actually deactivating the feat and requiring you to stop and re-stance.

[Phaye]

This is not true at all.



The only rounds you can use CE in D&D are rounds in which you make an attack or full attack action. If you're casting a (non-quickened) spell in a round, then you're not making an attack or full attack action and therefore cannot use CE.

Ok then I understand the logic but as says by Boulderun, why not re-activate it at the end of the casting?

And why casting a spell in quickened mode de-activate Combat Expertise?

[MysticTheurge]

Ok then I understand the logic but as says by Boulderun, why not re-activate it at the end of the casting?

And why casting a spell in quickened mode de-activate Combat Expertise?

Those are, well, good questions.

I'd guess that the answer to the first is that the coding/technology doesn't allow for that. And I'd guess that the answer to the second is that they didn't think about it.

But those are just guesses.

[Kraki]

Perhaps the CE effect could be temporarily ignored for the duration of the spell cooldown that you cast, without actually deactivating the feat and requiring you to stop and re-stance.

The problem with that Boulderun is that there is also a cooldown on the activation of this feat, otherwise melee classes could possibly cycle it on and off so that they'd only be vulnerable while swinging (it sounds unlikely but who would have thought about the fast attack bug of so long ago?) As it stands, you can turn it back on once you're not casting and the cooldown is over.

Kraki

[Phaye]

Those are, well, good questions.

I'd guess that the answer to the first is that the coding/technology doesn't allow for that. And I'd guess that the answer to the second is that they didn't think about it.

But those are just guesses.

Yes I though the same for both.

But, for example, flanking and flat-footed bonus/malus are added in real time (one of the strengh of the DDO gameplay engine), so I think it should be possible to make Combat Expertise bonus/malus dependant on an attack or full attack sequence (not saying it's easy).

For the quickened mode, I think this metamagic feat has been abandoned for some time because of the cost in spell points and the usefullness of it. But now that we're in levels with higher SP pools and higher usefullness (no interruption possible, no concentration roll) and with the lowering in SP cost, they should take a closer look to this feat.
Beginning to give it an animation like the other metamagic

[AEschyl]

really.. the best fix for this would be to remove the cooldown timer for CE

i have no problem with CE dropping when you cast a spell - i just hate the fact that i cant cast a spell for 30 seconds after i activate it

[Phaye]

really.. the best fix for this would be to remove the cooldown timer for CE

i have no problem with CE dropping when you cast a spell - i just hate the fact that i cant cast a spell for 30 seconds after i activate it

Yes and that too, you're right.