Dynamic Duo - Looking for suggestions

[Krazed]

Evasion Pally and UMD Sorc builds are not exactly ideal for new players. They require a knowledge of gameplay and spells that isn't easy to come by without actually playing the game for a while.

I would suggest, instead, maybe a 10 bard/2 rogue build for traps and general support with a paladin for access to self-healing and general durability.

[Protagoras]

Evasion Pally and UMD Sorc builds are not exactly ideal for new players. They require a knowledge of gameplay and spells that isn't easy to come by without actually playing the game for a while.

I would suggest, instead, maybe a 10 bard/2 rogue build for traps and general support with a paladin for access to self-healing and general durability.

One thing that might be good is the 10bard/2Rogue and 10Pally/2Rogue. Gives the pally evasion and with good Cha and Good Wisdom the Pally can get a decent headstart on UMD.. AND have the Pally concentrate on high Spot (dovetails with Wisdom).. the Bard does search DD and OL. And you can have quite a nice combo I think.

[stockwizard5]

Stock: why bard/pally and not cler/pally? your bard spells would fail, no?

Yup

a) I think you need max UMD on both
b) Get to enjoy almost all the DDO game mechanics (fun)

[Symar-FangofLloth]

Whoa, bard/pally? You found a way to manipulate the alignment bug? Please tell! I wanna make one!
Seriously though (even though I do want a bard/pally) it doesn't work because of alignment restrictions. Did you mean rogue?

[SUPERCREWJOHN]

Now that you mentioned Rogue.It seems like they would be in the same place as the bard to a degree. Doesnt it seem a little odd that it would be possible to have a Lawful Good thief. I guess it is like Robin Hood, but even Robin Hood, i would have thought was either Chaotic Good or Neutral Good or perhaps Chaotic Neutral..

[stockwizard5]

Ya - forgot the bard/pally build was a glitch - one cliff jump for me

Note: Cliff Jumps are the accepted puinishment for yutzing - remove feather fall and hop off cliff in House K next to Taming the Flames

As a group we have a problem here - these are being built for new players so no uber equipment - no 32 point builds and even worse no Drow = no stats and no SR - so I guess I would go with:

Human Rogue 1 / Wizard X (Rogue at Level 1)
Role: Thief, Buffing, Crowd Control, Healing (wands), Arcane (wands and scrolls), Raise Dead (scrolls)
Stats: INT 18 (+3 Levels, +4 enhancements), CON14, CHR 14
Skills: Use Magic Device, Seach, Disable, Concentration, (Open Lock, Spot)
Feats: Skill Focus Use Magic Device, Skill Focus Disable, Skill Focus Search, Mental Toughness, Improved Mental Toughness, Heighten Spell, Extend Spell, Enlarge Spell, Toughness?

Human Rogue 2 / Pally X (Rogue at Levels 9 and 10)
Role: Melee, Healing (lay hands and wands), Buffing, Misc (wands), Raise Dead (scrolls)
Stats: STR 16 (+3 levels, +1 enhancements), CHA 16 (+3 enhancements), INT 12, CON/WIS 10
Skills: Use Magic Device, Haggle, (Heal, Balance)
Feats: Skill Focus Use Magic Device, Mental Toughness, Skill Focus Haggle, Improved Critical Slash, Shield Mastery, Toughness?

This is only a couple minutes thought but should get most content

[Strakeln]

Ya - forgot the bard/pally build was a glitch - one cliff jump for me

You weren't alone. I was following your tail lights.

[Krazed]

Human Rogue 1 / Wizard X
Role: Thief, Buffing, Crowd Control, Healing (wands), Arcane (wands and scrolls), Raise Dead (scrolls)
Stats: INT 18, CON/CHR 14
Skills: Use Magic Device, Seach, Disable, Concentration, (Open Lock, Spot)
Feats: Skill Focus Use Magic Device, Skill Focus Disable, Skill Focus Search, Mental Toughness, Improved Mental Toughness, Heighten Spell, Extend Spell, Enlarge Spell, Toughness?

I wouldn't really suggest this build right now. The new enhancement system utterly destroyed HV, one of the primary things a build like this relies on.

[stockwizard5]

I wouldn't really suggest this build right now. The new enhancement system utterly destroyed HV, one of the primary things a build like this relies on.

The changes to the Human Versitility Enhancements certainly hurt this build but consider the target audience - two new players who want to duo the most content. We are not talking CoF elite speed runs with six guildies

[roscopico]

I wouldn't really suggest this build right now. The new enhancement system utterly destroyed HV, one of the primary things a build like this relies on.

Thats why I say: for duo builds, forget roguing entirely.

[Humperdink]

Since Warforged was mentioned earlier, I thought I'd throw in my two cents. I occasionally run with a friend who's a human 1Ftr/6Wiz. I'm a warforged 7th level barbarian. It's a great team- he hangs back and casts magic while taking baddies down with his holy repeater while I mop up on the front lines. If things get really bad he can defend himself ok by having armor on and a sheild and swinging a weapon. He built his character with decent dex and strength with the highest focus on intelligence of course. Being WF I have lots of immunities and being barbarian I have high DPS and a lot of hit points. And when the battle is over, he can heal me with wands. Now granted we didn't start out to build the perfect balanced pair to do Duo quests, but so far we've done up to level 9 quests. And we've succeeded were I know full parties have failed. Several other factors to consider no matter what you settle on: definitely will need cash to sustain yourself in potions and wands and such, of course higher quality equipment helps, some familiarity with the quest can be helpful and here's the biggest- be willing to be patient and use strategy. For the most part you're not going to blast through quests like a full party with crowd control and haste. Bottleneck monsters at doors, use ranged where you can, my wizard casts web, hypno, and other crowd control spells to handle the mobs while I pick them off. Some of the most fun I've had in DDO is questing just the two of us- taking time to explore and using tactics and intelligence to overcome difficult situations.

I forgot to mention- while a magic user can provide buffs and resistances to elemental damage, it's worth it to gain enough Favor Points so you can take advantage of what House P has to offer. After you've earned 75 House P favor points you can go to them and they will cast spells that will increase your Stats (strength, dexterity, etc), protection from elemental magic (fire, cold, etc) and other things like Jump or more Hit Points (False Life). These buffs last 30 minutes and WILL stay with you when you enter a quest, unlike regular player buffs.

[Goldheart]

I'm very partial to Use Magic Device, and would recomend it for both party members of a duo. Being able to cast whatever scrolls you need for any particular mission is a big boon. Raise dead scrolls go without mention.

I'm also partial to the roguebard as being the best jack of all trades. (Only 1 or 2 levels of rogue necessary - I took my second at level 12 for evasion and to top off skills - 1st level must be rogue) However, you have to be good players to max your survivability potential.

Given that partiallity, I will still have to say that two fighter/pally/rogues with umd have the best survivability and potential. These two can actually split the rouging duties building a sense of teamwork and dependence and cooperation (great for father-son). Here's how I would do it:

3 rogue/3 pally/6 fighter (or 2/4/6 or 2/3/7)
This fighter would have high dex/int/cha - will handle search/disable traps, open locks and utilize finess and be able to hit stuff at range with bows.

2 rogue/10 pally
This fighter would have high str/con/wis/cha will handle spotting traps/secret doors, and have some natural spell casting ability. note: more feats with fighter mixed in may outweigh pally spells if you don't mind buying lots of scrolls and potions, in that case stop after 3 or 4 pally levels.

Both would maintain UMD as a skill, including the skill focus use magic device feat. Both can put out damage to down foes with a high regen. Both can take hits. Both can raise their partner via scroll wih UMD (though expensive)

Alternatively: I might suggest full cleric with rogue/pally/fighter hybrid. Work spot in with the cleric (dwarf naturally good). A cleric can meele early on but then have awesome offense + damage mitigation spells at higher level.

[Goldheart]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Krazed
I wouldn't really suggest this build right now. The new enhancement system utterly destroyed HV, one of the primary things a build like this relies on.

Thats why I say: for duo builds, forget roguing entirely.

Not even my human 28pnt rogue/bard was reliant upon HV. It was a huge help, but not a necessity. Decent equipment is more important. I checked elite content and I can both find and disable traps easily without the HV boost and the toughest locks that some full rogues can't do even boosting. The difference is +10 open/disable rings and +11 search goggles. What I can't do is spot easily (I don't have an item I'd wear regularly for that) and I have low wisdom. but alas, many many rogues don't spot so well. (If I really really wanted to, I could wear my +7 spot item, keep an owls wisdom buff(or item) on and probably spot more stuff, but it's not that important to me. What I did in elite Made to Order, the Haywire quest with all the mines, was simply search a couple times per hallway.

In any event, a rogue hybrid has every chance of making the lower and easier quests more enjoyable and fulfilling, as long as rogue was taken for the first level and all the skills are maintained afterwards.

[LOUDRampart]

Since dad presumably knows the game and his son presumably doesn't know the game...

I would recommend WF as race.

One play Rogue 2/Pali X (you may want to increase Rogue levels later to flesh out some feats)

Other play Wizard (I wouldn't recommend Sorc unless the player is already familiar with arcane casters also Wizard gives more spell versitility for some encounters)

UMD would be nice with both characters but not a necessity ( did he really say that?)

With these two characters you can pretty much play all normal, most hard, and a lot of elite content. Grant it, you won't be able to clear every nook and cranny of every map and you will need to hire mercenaries (other players) to help with some of the content, especially when you make it to the current high end game but you will have some fun getting there.

[LOUDRampart]

Alright, revision here.

I deleted one of my toons (yes I delete high level toons but keep my "main") and built a WF duo with my son just to try this. We both have a pretty good working knowledge of what works and what doesn't.

I'm thinking now, WF is not duo to take. The reason is the disadvantages are such that it is difficult to overcome them to get a "balance".

What we ended up with is a fighter and a Rogue/Wizard. We're going to try this for 5 or so levels (not much time invested and see how they pan out.

Things we're thinking about:
Fighter: Very strong, should do well. Made LG so can add two or three levels of Pali later if think necessary. Can add two levels of rogue later for evasion if necessary (not focused on any trap smithing with this character).

Rogue/Wizard: Int only 16 and Chr 14. That means two of three main skills can go up each level... gotta choose between search, disable and umd. All other skills suffer....

Options: Keep Fighter as is but make R/W Drow for more balanced build and 18 int. Use two Drow for team. (If 32 point build is available you can substitute Elf for Drow).