Head-butting the "Guild Paradigm"

**Darkstride** · 03-10-2007, 03:00 AM

I was part of the dragon raid and a member of the Shadow House Guild ... "I would like to extend a belated apology on behalf of our guild to Qwert”. I was late in coming to the dragon raid and have heard different point of views of the incident. To clarify … Von 4 did not take 2.5 hours; some people (non-guildies) wanted to join but needed some of the von’s completed in order to get flagged. In the confusion and with the length of the time it took to get flagged – two groups were formed. Hence, the mishap with Qwert, and again I would like to apologize for the incident. The Shadow House Guild is small and relatively “new”, but we strive to treat all of Mabar’s residents with the respect they deserve.

A guild that has been around much longer than Shadow House perpetrated a tricks of their own and we have not posted any negative threads against them. A few weeks ago, a guild that will remain nameless, was at the island entrance of the titan raid. Something must have happened to their raid group because the raid leader started to “entice” our group members into dropping from our group and joining theirs. The “enticement” was that if they did drop from our group and join theirs, “they would be allowed to join their guild”. What type of ethical behavior is this from a “guild leader”?

Again, I would like to congratulate Qwert in the way he has expressed himself; and I believe that we are the one’s that came out on the losing end by not retaining Qwert on that dragon raid.

Mabar Characters:
Marielos – 12th Level Sorceress
Wulfgaar – 10 / 1 / 1 Level Barbarian / Fighter / Cleric
Zenedra – 8 / 2 / 2 Level Sorceress / Pally / Rogue

**gabaod** · 03-10-2007, 08:46 AM

wow.. 1 post and I hijack a thread? interesting.

but if u want the facts straight.. was loot discussed previously to the quest, maybe? i dont know, since they were already in entrance of v5 when i joined, but no loot was ever discussed in any matter until after we had cleared out about 40% of v5 and then I asked if the loot was going to be rolled on and they announced yes.... at first, until other guildies decide to cry out for their pre-claimed loot. Just because how one may think they would spec/tune a character, doesnt mean its the best way or others will feel same as you do. I could have been a **** and kept the goggles and move over my current gear to my baby rogue, but why bother? taking loot out of pity isnt my thing.

So.. please set your facts straight before feeling the need to vent in a forum.

Secondly, my comment of bringing you guys through was the common mistake u guys had made of feather falling down to the chest right away instead of realizing, oh hey, we need to clear the path to the chest.. Sure you could have DD out, redo the doors to let people through and the such. So i apologize for helping make that raid more efficient than it was currently being ran.

Anyways, didnt realize after a 4mo break people are still whining over getting some dragon loot. Loot is loot as nirvana said. But remember.. this is a game.. a game is all.

**Shieny** · 03-10-2007, 11:40 AM

now he acts innocent.

NOtice the changes in his post from:
"They complain that a rogue would want the dragon helm.. i guess they dont realize how much wisdom can benefit a rogue, not to mention the look factor."

To they complain about loot. He was the one that started the complaining and he could have mentioned when he joined that wanted the cleric helm, when he entered. Considering the fact it is such an odd request, one would think someone would mention if it was there quest.

He also said:
"woulda loved to see their guild chat after i brought them through v5"

Now he is trying to say he merely made the run more efficent.

Gaboad, attacked our guild when we were trying to help out a player on mabar. Maybe, he would have thought we would not respond to it because the original topic was about something different. However, We legendary knights stick together, when one person attacks the guild we all respond. He did Hijack that thread. He initiated the change in subject with no reason. Obviously our fellow mabarians believed he was wrong because we had some many people jump to our defense. The Legendary Knights thank these peolpe and appreciate them and their guild for helping us.

So what if you didn't take the goggles, you getting loot was not the problem, it was the loot going to the characters that could use it most, Like Necros said "need before greed." So you didn't take the goggles, like you had mentioned you didn't need them I appreciate that small gesture of valor. However, you did complain about not getting the helm, sounds greedy to me and there was no more valor in the rest of your actions. Ok, we may have made a mistake in von 5 that you reminded us about, I wasn't there but I will give you that. However, to come on this thread and say you ran us through von 5, then when we respond in defense, you change your words to i had only contributed to making it more efficent; trying to gain back a little bit of renown that you have lost.

my fellow mabar mates: You have heard his story and you have heard the story of the Legendary Knights of DnD. you can use these post to see who was in the right, wrong, who deserves valor, renown or disgust. Who acted in an honorable way. Or you may just laugh at the whole thing and said in the time they posted all this ****, they so could have ran another dragon raid. Either way remember one person: QWERT

**Qwert** · 03-10-2007, 11:49 AM

Thank you for obviously considered apology. I appreciate your comments here. As I stated in the OP, I have grouped with some of the participants during that night, and I have no issue with any of them, personally.

I did not anticipate such a gracious response, and I am grateful to you for making the effort toward a public apology. While I can only speak for myself, I can tell you that your efforts have ensured that I will harbor no ill-will toward any members of that group or of the Shadow House guild.

For all intents and purposes, I feel that the matter is closed, and I look forward to grouping with all of you in the future.

**gabaod** · 03-10-2007, 03:20 PM

Originally Posted by Shieny

now he acts innocent.

NOtice the changes in his post from:
"They complain that a rogue would want the dragon helm.. i guess they dont realize how much wisdom can benefit a rogue, not to mention the look factor."

To they complain about loot. He was the one that started the complaining and he could have mentioned when he joined that wanted the cleric helm, when he entered. Considering the fact it is such an odd request, one would think someone would mention if it was there quest.

Well since you were even on the raid you didnt even catch me stating all +stat items are beneficial to all classes.

If you grouped with people who have +4-6 to all of their stats and see how much more beneficial that toon is in a group you would understand.

Originally Posted by Shieny

He also said:
"woulda loved to see their guild chat after i brought them through v5"

Now he is trying to say he merely made the run more efficent.

Once again, you werent there and yes I did bring them through v5 in that part, and also made the raid much more efficient, could I have just left your guild at that chest rogueless and left the raid and make your guildies wait on trying to find a rogue whos flagged at 4am available to help complete it.

Originally Posted by Shieny

So what if you didn't take the goggles, you getting loot was not the problem, it was the loot going to the characters that could use it most, Like Necros said "need before greed." So you didn't take the goggles, like you had mentioned you didn't need them I appreciate that small gesture of valor. However, you did complain about not getting the helm, sounds greedy to me and there was no more valor in the rest of your actions. Ok, we may have made a mistake in von 5 that you reminded us about, I wasn't there but I will give you that. However, to come on this thread and say you ran us through von 5, then when we respond in defense, you change your words to i had only contributed to making it more efficent; trying to gain back a little bit of renown that you have lost.

1. I never complained about not getting the helm.. how could I have, did it even drop? no.
2. regain my renown?? if you knew me, youd know I could care less about renown... I have plenty of close mates on here who know I can play the game.

Originally Posted by Shieny

my fellow mabar mates: You have heard his story and you have heard the story of the Legendary Knights of DnD. you can use these post to see who was in the right, wrong, who deserves valor, renown or disgust. Who acted in an honorable way. Or you may just laugh at the whole thing and said in the time they posted all this ****, they so could have ran another dragon raid. Either way remember one person: QWERT

How about you stop talking out of your butt if you werent even there presuming you know the full story.

**PhoenixFire31** · 03-10-2007, 05:14 PM

Guys, guys, chill please. This is unnecessary and we do NOT need the Cube or Kobald to come knocking on Mabar's door. Please let the issue drop. It's in the past, let it go.

....and yes I AM turning this tread around, NO DISNEY WORLD FOR YOU!!!

**frankz331** · 03-10-2007, 07:39 PM

gabaod you were in the wrong dude thats all there is to it you threaten to leave the party you threaten to post bad things about us on the forms well u did make threats and followed through i wounder if u would have acted like that on your guilds dragon raid. or were you just intent on being an a*****e to us. we are 1 of the elite guilds on mabar it will take more than 1 little r****d posting somthing stupid cause he is a greedy little f****r to make anyone think any less of us so go live in your little land of make beleive cause you were by far 1 of the rudest ppl i have ever played with in this game good luck finding a party acting like that mabe thats why none of your toons are past lvl 10 yet

**gabaod** · 03-10-2007, 08:32 PM

Originally Posted by frankz331

gabaod you were in the wrong dude thats all there is to it you threaten to leave the party you threaten to post bad things about us on the forms well u did make threats and followed through i wounder if u would have acted like that on your guilds dragon raid. or were you just intent on being an a*****e to us. we are 1 of the elite guilds on mabar it will take more than 1 little r****d posting somthing stupid cause he is a greedy little f****r to make anyone think any less of us so go live in your little land of make beleive cause you were by far 1 of the rudest ppl i have ever played with in this game good luck finding a party acting like that mabe thats why none of your toons are past lvl 10 yet

I apologize for not being up to par to your standards in my little land of make believe and updated my signature to my current lvls, but for your pleasure Ill get right to it. If you could read, you would have been informed I was away for 4months.

**Shieny** · 03-10-2007, 09:24 PM

Goboad:

So, on the forums you post the wis helm could be beneficial to a rouge and we would complain that we would wine if a rouge got it over a cleric.

On the forums you state I have not partied with anyone with +4 - +6 stat items, implying I also don't have +4 to +6 stat items.

On the forums you originally stated that you ran the guild through von 5. Then, you stated it was only a portion of von 5 and you didn't want to leave the party because you were afraid they would be left standing.
This may be true; However, you did not admit to it until it was questioned and as my guildies said, we had two people on with alts von 4 ready and easily complete von 5. Maybe you should have been more clear about in your original post instead of acting the way you did.

Since the helm never dropped; why mention the legendary knights complaining about the a rouge getting it over a cleric? Also, if you did state that every class can benefit from +4-+6 stat items, then wouldn't it be even more beneficial to a class that a higher will, effects more than just the will save. So it is not really complaining, it is more of common sense.

Renown goes for everyone, even your close friends. Unless they know you have a reputation of behaving the way you did. Their renown of you, their overall view of who you are and what type of person you are is probably going to change. and Like I said you changed how you acted in your post.

You are right, I do not know the full story. However, the majority of my post were based on what you have said on this forum and the others who have also posted on this forum. All though you said very little at first, it was still enough to attack our guild. And with that information I stated what I did. I never Claimed I knew the full story and I actually stated that I wasn't there so people would presume. When I stated you have heard his story and the story of the Legendary Knights of DnD Noticed I didn't say my story. I meant all the post on this forum. Yours, frankz, evisle, kscribleys, and everyone else who contributed to this forum.

I want to appolagize for mentoning that you complained about not getting the wisdom helm. I assumed this because you mentioned in your first post that the legendary knights would complain if a rouge got the wisdom helm. Then what naturally comes to mind is that the wisdom helm dropped and we wouldn't let you roll on it because a cleric could use it better. And that is probably true, if there is a cleric on one of our raids without the wisdom helm, we will give it to him over a rouge. And if I am wrong and you wouldn't complain at all, then why state that we would complain a rouge would get the dragon helm? That was not part of the original post or near the intention of the original post.

Just to clarify things even more, not thats its needed, we would not complain if a rouge got the dragon helm. However, If a rouge got the dragon helm over a cleric that would be a different story, Need over greed (I like that statement necros, its a good philosophy).

This is my last post about gaboad or about the dragon raid. As for my original intentions of posting on this forum was about Qwert and helping him out. Not about replying to someone else's post trash talking my guild. I have disturbed a few people and probably brought uneeded attention to mabar. I have also spoken for my guild, I posted this information without discussing it with the guild, sorry guys. I felt strongly about this subject and felt I needed to state what I stated. However, my statements were probably not needed by anyone, not the legendary knights, not mabarians, not gaboad and most importantly not QWERT. Sorry Qwert. Although I don't regret for anything I did or say I will not drag on this useless debate anymore, because the people who know the legendary knights, know who we are, how we act and how we play.

**frankz331** · 03-11-2007, 06:10 AM

there was an non bias person there the ranger from Orders Dracionium and his words were "man that guy was a d**k" as soon as you left and you gave up the goggles to him and he still felt that way about you and if all it is is a game to you why did you come whining on the forms about it need i say more

**Necros** · 03-11-2007, 11:16 AM

Mos plz dont post on this anymore and let it go, to everyone else posting, please understand that once i was sent a tell IG this no longer needed to be an issue, its done, over and taken care of. For the sakes of both our guilds let this thread die. Thx.

**ff1401** · 03-19-2007, 10:14 PM

this is good S*&t .. just wondering how it went from rant that was well deserved to something totally different.. .. i know your pain qwert.. i was in a titan run With <Not saying guild u know who u are>.. i died and i had my kid sitting in may lap.. when i wasnt looking waiting on a rez my kid clicked on the ok button and rezed me out .. instead of offering to come back out and help clear the path agian they just droped me from the group.. no hey man i am sorry or nothing just haha u get screwed with no lube. and we dont want to help u.. , .. and for the other bs thats posted here LMFAO.. common knowledge. i agree Need before greed. lol i will be laughing in my sleep over this one

**frankz331** · 03-23-2007, 07:50 PM

i know you and everyone else that reads gabaods post about a rouge getting the dragon helm over a cleric should laugh at it it is 1 person being a selfish little brat

**Tavok** · 03-23-2007, 08:34 PM

Originally Posted by Darkstride

I was part of the dragon raid and a member of the Shadow House Guild ... "I would like to extend a belated apology on behalf of our guild to Qwert”. I was late in coming to the dragon raid and have heard different point of views of the incident. To clarify … Von 4 did not take 2.5 hours; some people (non-guildies) wanted to join but needed some of the von’s completed in order to get flagged. In the confusion and with the length of the time it took to get flagged – two groups were formed. Hence, the mishap with Qwert, and again I would like to apologize for the incident. The Shadow House Guild is small and relatively “new”, but we strive to treat all of Mabar’s residents with the respect they deserve.

A guild that has been around much longer than Shadow House perpetrated a tricks of their own and we have not posted any negative threads against them. A few weeks ago, a guild that will remain nameless, was at the island entrance of the titan raid. Something must have happened to their raid group because the raid leader started to “entice” our group members into dropping from our group and joining theirs. The “enticement” was that if they did drop from our group and join theirs, “they would be allowed to join their guild”. What type of ethical behavior is this from a “guild leader”?

Again, I would like to congratulate Qwert in the way he has expressed himself; and I believe that we are the one’s that came out on the losing end by not retaining Qwert on that dragon raid.

Mabar Characters:
Marielos – 12th Level Sorceress
Wulfgaar – 10 / 1 / 1 Level Barbarian / Fighter / Cleric
Zenedra – 8 / 2 / 2 Level Sorceress / Pally / Rogue

I'm gonna throw some names into this because this is specifically talking about me. During that Titan Raid, (keep in mind this was roughly 2 days after being booted from my last guild, so I was looking into new guilds, OD was one of the top on my list) they said that they would group with me so a raid would be perfect for it, and as it turns out I am an active member of their guild. So it was not a 'hoax' to get people to leave your group by any stretch.

**Cheap** · 07-30-2007, 07:04 PM

Qwert I just want to say thanks. You could not have handled this better or more professional manner than you did. As guild leader of the Prophets of Velah I am proud to have members like you supporting us. The game is suppose to be fun and its not much fun when your waiting for the group to form just to be left out in the cold. So Qwert I thank you for showing people how good the Prophets are.

**Daiv_Scamius** · 07-30-2007, 08:53 PM

Thats why I make every effort to aviod PuG Raids, which makes the guild that invited you sound even worse.

Sorry to hear you had to wait 2 and a half hours just to get booted, cant say I wouldnt be pretty upset myself.

I know you have a few names tossed your way for tells, but if you get a chance and you happen to remember, please send a tell to Ruffle.

I'd rather not take the chance on getting that upset myself.

**Magnus_Arcanis** · 07-30-2007, 09:21 PM

Umm, wait a second... This thread is 4 months old. In fact I don't think Qwert was even in Prophets when this happened.

/me is confuddled.

**Osharan_Tregarth** · 07-30-2007, 11:31 PM

Originally Posted by Magnus_Arcanis

Umm, wait a second... This thread is 4 months old. In fact I don't think Qwert was even in Prophets when this happened.

/me is confuddled.

All of the threads since 4/1 got accidently deleted during the merge.. So yes, this thread is from four months ago.

Here you go...

Originally Posted by Quarion

I apologize guys.

It looks like some data may have become corrupt in the maintenance or was lost in the transition. We're looking into it.

In the meantime, feel free to repost anything you had for sale in the marketplace forums, and continue discussions as best you can in the other forums.

As for the specifically requested saved thread(s), we did not intend for them to be pruned. (And they shouldn't have been anyhow, since I specifically checked that they had been recently posted to.) If we can restore them we will, and again I apologize.

**thumps** · 07-31-2007, 12:59 PM

wow this is too funny you guys got some drama i cant wait to see you all in the merge im sure my raid policys will more then **** people off .....hence my ever growing squelch list rofl..... but still would like to say wow goodtimes look forward to meeting you all

**Beherit_Baphomar** · 08-01-2007, 12:37 PM

Bad, bad, BAD form.

As Mabar will very shortly be merged with Argonnessen I would very much appreciate a P.M with the name of the guild and the leader of the party that left you standing.

Bad form...terrible behaviour.

Thread: Head-butting the "Guild Paradigm"

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An Apology to "Qwert"

Darkstride

there was a non bias person there

hahahahahahaah

you should laugh

Qwert

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