Diplomatic Impunity (update notes)

[n00bishpker]

Is there a reason the Wildmen being removed is NOT included in the Update notes? Why is it being hidden or was it "forgotten" to be added to the notes. Just kind of curious with how controversial the community has been about the removal of the Wildmen. Also, when will Bullywug's be taking over the rest of their spots?

Edit: had a typo in "included"

[voxson5]

Is there a reason the Wildmen being removed is NOT included in the Update notes? Why is it being hidden or was it "forgotten" to be added to the notes. Just kind of curious with how controversial the community has been about the removal of the Wildmen. Also, when will Bullywug's be taking over the rest of their spots?

Edit: had a typo in "included"

Not the first time that the community has responded like this to be met with silent defiance.

Won't be the last time either.

[mpetrarca]

Well, as Cordovan stated, "SSG can do what they want with their game." On the flip side, I can do what I want with my money. So far this year I have played enough to buy with DDO Points a character transfer and Isle of Dread. I have dropped as much as $250 at a time on this game when it was Turbine, SSG will never get a single penny from me again.

[DYWYPI]

The reason it's not mentioned in the "Update 59 Release notes" as to why Wildmen models are being cancelled is because it mainly relates to: USA culturally specific terms, and their labelling.

The fruit Ananas comosus probably should be banned from DDO for classism reasons alone. For example, if you watch the following 40-seconds or so, of this clip https://youtu.be/zLTElocL4l0?t=1672 you might figure out the reason as to why the pineapple was: rotten to the core.

They're removing Wildmen, logically they should also remove those animated object pineapples models, that they use in quests for similar reasoning... otherwise it's hypocrisy. :-/

[LightBear]

The reason it's not mentioned in the "Update 59 Release notes" as to why Wildmen models are being cancelled is because it mainly relates to: USA culturally specific terms, and their labelling.

The fruit Ananas comosus probably should be banned from DDO for classism reasons alone. For example, if you watch the following 40-seconds or so, of this clip https://youtu.be/zLTElocL4l0?t=1672 you might figure out the reason as to why the pineapple was: rotten to the core.

They're removing Wildmen, logically they should also remove those animated object pineapples models, that they use in quests for similar reasoning... otherwise it's hypocrisy. :-/

That video is restricted to certain areas according to youtube.

Anyway, while I do think nature should have certain rights.
(It already has btw, but whatever.)
And one's country pineapple is another country's banana.

So far both are just fruit and some like to eat it with pastry.
Fruit as in an eatable-object.

Anyway, I requested for the wildman to be removed many many years ago.
I'm glad they finally got around to it.

[cadaverash]

Sort of thought they would update it to be a frogmen village.

Looks like a wildmen village with frogmen living there.

Guess the wildmen legacy will live on through their architecture in this quest.

[The_Human_Cypher]

A sad day for DDO. I fear the devs may have lost their last marble. I wonder what will be deemed "problematic" next?

It's likely I'll just stop playing DDO. I haven't spent money on the game in a few years or more (I cancelled my VIP sub a while back) and I've been gradually playing less and less. This may be the last straw as I don't want to be here when something else is removed from the game for imaginary offenses.

Then I'd probably just give my account to a member of a disadvantaged group. Like a Wildman.

[Kryxal]

So instead of seeing Wildmen living there, we see where Wildmen once lived but they were resettled or killed off ... how is this BETTER?

[DYWYPI]

Often, in the nineteenth-century the image of pineapples reflected and shaped conversations about "commodity" and the national expansion in the United States. Thus, yet again the fruit's symbolism is strongly related to America.

[...] That video is restricted to certain areas according to youtube. ...

LightBear, what country were you trying to view the YouTube video clip from? I wasn't aware it was geo-blocked; you'd probably need a Proxy server or VPN service if that's the case to (cough) bypass and view the content. I am not sure if visiting Invidious and https://docs.invidious.io/instances/ would work for you.

Alternately maybe you could try this clip: https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8akm76I ~ [26:52 minute mark]. I have no idea if that'd be blocked for you either - it possibly would be.

That 40-second video transcript of Lady Denham's luncheon party basically went as follows:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanditon#Characters

LADY DENHAM: How about it, Miss Lambe?

GEORGIANA LAMBE (switching to West Indian patois): We ain't suited, Lady Denham.

ARTHUR PARKER: Good for you.
Well said, Miss Lambe.
"We ain't suited."
Oh, very good.
May I cut you a slice of pineapple?

[Arthur impulsively grabs the fruit, and starts energetically cutting into pineapple top with a large knife]

LADY DENHAM: Mr Parker. Mr Parker, the pineapple is not yours to cut!
Mr Parker!

TOM PARKER: I...

LADY DENHAM: Mr Parker, would you please put that knife down.

[Arthur quickly places the opened pineapple back onto the table: it's full of maggots]

LADY DENHAM: What's the matter?

ARTHUR PARKER: It's rotten, Lady Denham.
Rotten to the core.

FEMALE GUEST (background): It's alive!
MALE GUEST (background): Don't worry, my dear, I'm sure it can be saved.

I don't live in the USA. Therefore, I certainly didn't associate the Wildmen models with anything other than some type of fantasy apelike creature. I've never played D&D either so haven't ever come across them until playing DDO.

However, some of the dialogue (and heroes' actions) was somewhat questionable towards them. Yet, in the quest 'Diplomatic Impunity' they've replaced them with Bullywugs, which I believe are described like a type of primitive savage. I'm not even going to ask, but the chosen replacement model seems somewhat... debatable. :-)

[OfElectricMen]

It's likely I'll just stop playing DDO.

Bye?

[mbartol]

I honestly don’t understand the issue with portraying a primitive humanoid species. It is a fantasy world with all kinds of fantastical and magical elements. There is no extant real-world equivalent to disparage here.

I guess people feel the need to be victimized and create reasons to express outrage.

[drathdragon]

so SSG removed wildmen , ok... but they went replaced in ataraxia too ? with bullfrogs ?? Bullfrogs in Ataraxia ???

[Aaxeyu]

Can someone ELI5 as to why someone firstly wanted the wildmen removed, secondly, why SSG did it, and thirdly why people are mad that SSG did something?

[The_Human_Cypher]

Bye?

I'm afraid so. I enjoy playing DDO but this fiasco with the Wildmen is too much. SSG has explicitly reworked content in the early classic game purely for supposed social justice reasons, and they plan to do more in the future. How much more?

This sets a bad precedent and puts DDO onto a slippery slope of more censorship. I'll reiterate my viewpoint: there's nothing wrong with the Wildmen and they didn't need to be taken out of the 'Diplomatic Impunity' quest, nor do they need to be removed from anywhere else in DDO.

[SoVeryBelgian]

Why didn't they just rework and re-texture the questline like the Epic version of Necro 4? Or just extend the pack with Droaam P3?

Feels like a 'miss' honestly.




That said, I don't really care if they pull out Wildmen. I knew that stuff was gunna be on the chopping block. Old DnD is like Old Disney, some things need updating.

[DYWYPI]

By removing the Wildmen models it is removing diversity; diversity is the acceptance and inclusion. By them being removed, it just means avoidance techniques are being used instead, to avoid any potential sensitivity issues. Two sides of the same coin. :-)

[droid327]

Can someone ELI5 as to why someone firstly wanted the wildmen removed, secondly, why SSG did it, and thirdly why people are mad that SSG did something?

- because some people thought having a bestial race that looked like hunter gatherer cultures was saying indigenous people were less than human. Though...I don't see how making them frogs is any better, they just moved it back to the entire other end of the vertebrate evolutionary spectrum...

- who knows. WotC is pushing a lot of that stuff in tabletop so maybe they were told to find something to fix...or maybe the Boston based studio just felt societally compelled to act unilaterally

- It's not about the change so much as the precedent that it sets. No one wants to see them spend additional effort wokewashing the game when that means less new content or actual issues addressed. And a lot of people don't want the game community to devolve into the "walking on eggshells" hyper sensitivity and aggressive police state environment that tends to create when officially adopted in online forums

[Oliphant]

Dumbest make-people-wrong bs thread yet.