Scrolls & clickies use while being raged

[mamant91]

Dear developers.
Please add more possibilities for ragers to use scrolls/clickies while being under effect of Barbarian Rage.
Thanks.

[C-Dog]

Kinda one of the premises of "Rage", is that you're too enraged to do anything remotely technical or focused. No Searching, no spellcasting (normally)... and no clickies. <shrug>

[Captain_Wizbang]

Dear developers.
Please add more possibilities for ragers to use scrolls/clickies while being under effect of Barbarian Rage.
Thanks.

NO

Kinda one of the premises of "Rage", is that you're too enraged to do anything remotely technical or focused. No Searching, no spellcasting (normally)... and no clickies. <shrug>

Agreed

[JOTMON]

Rage is RAGE.. as far as I am concerned the restriction is valid.


They should go further to better control the easy access players have to basically no fail resources..

for every player....

~Scroll casting should require standing still uninterrupted for the duration of accurately reciting intricate runes from a piece of parchment

~add interruption fail for potion drinking while moving or in combat with a choke damage on a crit fail roll '1'


Wouldn't mind seeing barbarian rage version of splash contact potions using a crush potion bottle against head animation..

[Bjond]

Kinda one of the premises of "Rage", is that you're too enraged to do anything remotely technical or focused. No Searching, no spellcasting (normally)... and no clickies. <shrug>

It depends on the operational complexity of the device. While raged characters can't operate "complex" machinery, the PHB absolutely grants them the ability to do things like pull a lever on an extremely complex device if that's all that's needed to start it up. So, it's not the complexity of the device (wand or scroll) that matters. It's the complexity of the actions required to use it.

Based on how wands and other "clickies" are used in game (point & shoot or just at-will activate), those absolutely fall under the "not complex to use" rule and should not be even remotely effected by rage.

Scrolls and things that require an active skill check, though, would probably depend on whether your skill is considered "over-kill" for the device in question; eg. if you have 2x the UMD needed to use something, that action counts as trivial and should be exempt from rage restrictions. IMHO, rage should simply cut UMD in half while it's active and let the usual mechanics prevail.

Spells are called out explicitly as too complex to cast while raged unless you have specific training. I don't know about SLAs, though. Those are usually at-will actions and thus not complex; eg. a spell is like a having access to a robotic arm that (with enough fine-motor skill) you can use to grab things. An SLA is like a real arm (\and you can use your real arms while raged.

---

From a game-play perspective, I absolutely hate playing rage-builds precisely because of the restrictions. Rage gives very VERY little and costs a ton -- no spells, no clickies, no scrolls, no wands, no trapping, and locked into a STR build. I do have one barbarian I like playing a lot, but that's because it's a shifter with rage-casting built into it.

BTW, that's OK. I don't feel slighted or cut-off from playing by my dislike for DDO's (grossly incorrect ) interpretation and implementation of rage-costs. There's plenty of other builds to play.

[adamkatt]

What would the bestamist barbarian have to say about this?

[Xgya]

Based on how wands and other "clickies" are used in game (point & shoot or just at-will activate), those absolutely fall under the "not complex to use" rule and should not be even remotely effected by rage.

You just described almost all spells in DDO, period; not just wands.
Click button, wizard points, things die.

In DDO, we skip the whole "flaunting around with the wand while chanting the key rune needed to activate the spell within" part. The fact we skip it for video game reasons doesn't suddenly make UMD a non-complex skill, or activating an item containing a spell you don't need to use UMD for (such as a wand containing a spell of your class, or a clickie) isn't a complex action.

It LOOKS simple, but most magic does. It's what you DON'T see that makes it complex.

[Bjond]

You just described almost all spells in DDO, period; not just wands.

Wands that require UMD or another skill to use obviously fall under the "complex action" rule, since they require a skill check. Any "at will" or free-action ability (such as clickies) are obviously not too complex for the same reason: no skill required, just like there's no skill check for walking.

SLAs are a grey area. Are they simple free-actions or are they complex? They're usually described as at-will, perhaps subject to various limitations (such as per day). So, I'd rule those as not-complex. They might take skill to acquire or "load", but not to use; eg. you can use a gun or drive a car while raged, but you might not be able to reload it (musket) or replace the spark-plugs.

'Course D&D is pure "make believe". You can always make up stories to justify whatever game behavior you desire; eg. magical SLAs access the weave and rage cuts off access to the weave. Voila, no SLA "spells" while raged with a simple story line.

IMHO, classic D&D rage is pretty ludicrous on virtually all fronts. Using skill-checks as a litmus is just what I would have done because it looks sensical in a situation already chock full of nonsense.

[Seph1roth5]

Makes sense for wands or scrolls, but it's ridiculous to not be able to use stuff like sharn ticket.

[Xgya]

IMHO, classic D&D rage is pretty ludicrous on virtually all fronts. Using skill-checks as a litmus is just what I would have done because it looks sensical in a situation already chock full of nonsense.

The trick is looking at complexity and usage. Skill checks just ain't it (Spot and Listen are skills. I've heard of blind rage, but barbarians literally going blind because they get angry, while funny, would be a bit off)

If I'd only make it related to skill checks, it would mean a Half-Elf Wiz Dilettante Barbarian could still use wands while raging, because using low level wands for them no longer involves a skill check.
The fact an item that activates a spell doesn't require a skill check doesn't suddenly make it not a complex action; it just means the action might be complex, but comprehensive enough that you can no longer fail at it so bad it doesn't work.

The "is it a complex thing, then no" rule is there because it left room for interpretation at a table.
In DDO, activating a clickie is considered complex, while Spot checks, Sneak and hitting things with axes aren't.

[Xgya]

No.

If you want access to actual magic (like use-activated magical items - clickies and scrolls) use while enraged, find one of those features that lets you use magic while enraged.
There's already a few out there.

[Saekee]

Rage is RAGE.. as far as I am concerned the restriction is valid.


They should go further to better control the easy access players have to basically no fail resources..

for every player....

~Scroll casting should require standing still uninterrupted for the duration of accurately reciting intricate runes from a piece of parchment

~add interruption fail for potion drinking while moving or in combat with a choke damage on a crit fail roll '1'


Wouldn't mind seeing barbarian rage version of splash contact potions using a crush potion bottle against head animation..

/signed