Max INT or 14 INT for trapmonkey?

[Davinna]

I'm building a Tempest Ranger trapmonkey. 18 rng/1 rog/1 fig.

I'm using a build I found on the forums, but as I'm leveling her I'm discovering the build is broken. Stats and Feats are not optimal. As I rebuild the character, I've discovered that I don't know what the ideal value for INT I should use. I'm fairly certain 18 INT is too much.

So, any feedback as to what value of starting INT I should use to be a successful trapmonkey? Then, do I up the INT or Dex stat for recommend value while leveling?

[Fauxknight]

There are 4 trapping skills to keep maxed out, rangers get 6+ int mod, so total.skill picks shouldn't be an issue. It's a matter of how high your search and disable are, and compared to gear and skill pucks your starting attribute is a relatively minor contribution to the total.

Basically take what gi es you the skill pick total you feel comfortable with.

[unbongwah]

FYI you may want to consider rerolling as pure Dark Hunter instead.

Pros: free sneak attack dice, you have trap skills without sacrificing the Tempest capstone, Cure Critical Admixture is more powerful than Cure Serious Wounds (regular ranger's best heal).
Cons: no Evasion until mid-epics, DH's Favored Enemy choices are mostly lousy, targeting Admixtures can be a bit of a PITA.

I have a thread for first-life Dark Hunter builds I'm gathering.

[Melkazar]

My main ranger has one level of rogue. I maxed WIS since I use Falconry for damage so I know I did not max INT. I am unfortunately not sure of what I actually started with and after multiple lives it is probably not consistent each reincarnation. But combined with Watchful Eye I can hit almost everything. Some epic elite traps I have failed but the number are few. Someone suggested Dark Hunter which is an alternative since it virtually forces you to go melee. Otherwise I haven't been thrilled with what you have to give up.

[gravisrs]

At first I was - why don't you just pick Darkhunter for the trapping skills, but then I've realised that this archetype looses evasion.

how stupid it is

[Davinna]

At first I was - why don't you just pick Darkhunter for the trapping skills, but then I've realised that this archetype looses evasion.

how stupid it is

Thanks for giving it some thought!

Everyone, thanks for your feedback. But, I still don't know if INT 14 is enough to do traps at end game?

[thedip]

A Base INT of 14 should be sufficient to find and disable most traps at endgame. This will allow you to max out all of your trapping skills.

For levelling get yourself:

Snake Skin gloves at lvl6
Keylock King at lvl10
Experimenter's Goggles at lvl 17
Epic Snakeskin Gloves/Magnifying Lenses at lvl21
Legendary Keylock Ring/Legendary Experimenter's Goggles at Lvl 29

You can add some INT/WIS diamond Augs to the lvl29 items if you want to be doubly sure.

I hope that this helps.

[Livmo]

Thanks for giving it some thought!

Everyone, thanks for your feedback. But, I still don't know if INT 14 is enough to do traps at end game?

It depends on Skills (Search and Disable Device), Gear, and Past Life Feats. You can buff your INT with Enhancements as well.

For example my barbarian can out trap most trappers. However, I'm using INT to hit and damage from Harper tree.

[C-Dog]

... I still don't know if INT 14 is enough to do traps at end game?
...
Then, do I up the INT or Dex stat for recommend value while leveling?

If you dropped every level-up into your Int, that would only be +5 (+2 1/2 bonus). Then, add maybe a couple +1 Int Enhancements for another +1. So let's say, generously, that you're losing +4 to the end-game Total. That's not a dealbreaker.

For any starting Int, you'll want solid Int gear on top of that, so make sure that (and your Search/DD gear) is up to level, and you'll be fine.

(The DWS +6 Skill boost is very handy to have in such situations; 20 seconds is enough to Search/Disable 2-3 nearby traps. If your Combat Action Boost will be from Tempest, then you're not losing that.)

So, any feedback as to what value of starting INT I should use to be a successful trapmonkey?

Let's see...

Here's a generic non-Human, same class split as yours, an Elf w/ 14 Int.

(A Human w 14 Int would enjoy +1 Skill Point/level, and some non-Humans have +2 Int for the same number of SP's. Just a basic +2 Int tome would help too.)

Trapmonkey
18/1/1 Ranger/Fighter/Rogue
True Neutral Elf


Stats
. . . . . . . .28pt . . 32pt. . .Level Up
. . . . . . . .---- . . ----. . .--------
Strength. . . . 10. . . . 8 . . . 4: DEX
Dexterity . . . 18. . . .20 . . . 8: DEX
Constitution. . 14. . . .14 . . .12: DEX
Intelligence. . 14. . . .14 . . .16: DEX
Wisdom. . . . . .8. . . . 8 . . .20: DEX
Charisma. . . . .8. . . . 8 . . .24: DEX
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .28: DEX

Skills
. . . . .Rg Rn Rn Rn Rn Rn Rn Rn Fi Rn Rn Rn Rn Rn Rn Rn Rn Rn Rn Rn
. . . . . 1 .2 .3 .4 .5 .6 .7 .8 .9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
Disable . 4 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Search. . 4 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 . . 2. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Spot. . . 4 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 . . 2. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
UMD . . . 4 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Open Lo . 4 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 . . . .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .21
Balance . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4
Jump. . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4
Haggle. . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4
Swim. . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .3
Heal. . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2
Tumble. . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .1
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
. . . . .40 .8 .8 .8 .8 .8 .8 .8 .4. 8. 8. 8. 8. 8. 8. 8. 8. 8. 8. 8

So, confirmed, Int 14 covers the basics 99% (OL is only 21), if nothing more.

Me, I'd go with less Open Lock, about half-ranks, maybe even less than that*, and get high/full ranks in 1 Ranger skill, like Heal or (if no Quicken) Concentration. ~Maybe~ also just a little more Jump, so no gear is needed for +40 - whatever floats yer boat.

If you like to live dangerously (and think you know the quests and traps cold), you could also shift the Spot points to something else; Spot is extra nice on a Ranged, but for Melee anything Stealthed is going to find you just fine.

(* OL gets a d20 roll on top of all the standing (listed) total. Also, the +7 from +5 Tools isn't listed in the standing total either. If your Dex + OL gear is at-level, and you're patient enough to roll high, you don't need full ranks in Open Lock for any but a few of the toughest (and very Optional) locks in the game.)

[droid327]

Is it *enough* for endgame traps? Probably...the question is how much are you willing to stop and gear swap/buff up before trapping?

I run endgame traps on my INT based Inqui without any gear bonuses, and without any short-term buffs, and for a lot of content its no-fail. So whatever points you're lacking compared to me, you can probably make up with a Leg Keylock Ring + L27 Skullduggery Kit + Leg Pendant of Hidden Tools, that's +36 Disable Device, and then throw on a L32 INT and Festive INT and Exceptional INT Diamond for another +10, and then you can UMD Greater Heroism for another +4...and there's more you can eke out too if you need, Yugo pot, Insightful Ability pot from CoVs, etc....

Ooh and Trapper's Delight in a L20 dagger is another +6, then pump it full of INT filis and maybe +2 Search from Vigilance

Point being, gear for trapping is overkill and you can pretty much do endgame trapping on an INT dumped build with just 1 hard point in Search/DD if you buff up hard enough

[spifflove]

Thanks for giving it some thought!

Everyone, thanks for your feedback. But, I still don't know if INT 14 is enough to do traps at end game?

I would go Intel plus Harper tree for adequate traps unless your goal is dps if so strength then 14 base Intel plus 8 tome and gear. Note that dex is no better than intelligence for dps and will come at a cost to your trap skills.

In case I’m not being clear: If you have Harper go intelligence unless you have good gear for each level or can craft it.

Educational reading
https://forums.ddo.com/forums/showth...-Melee-Rangers

[cru121]

uncentered monk 2 / dark hunter 18 should have more feats, more sneak attack, easier time with trap skills and earlier evasion. Unless you're looking specifically for Ranger past life, give it a thought. With tomes and PL and all, starting int 8 could be enough.

As a ranger (with rogue dip), trap skills are cross class, so rangers might need higher (+4) starting int than dark hunters to break even on skills.

[Davinna]

A Base INT of 14 should be sufficient to find and disable most traps at endgame. This will allow you to max out all of your trapping skills.

For levelling get yourself:

Snake Skin gloves at lvl6
Keylock King at lvl10
Experimenter's Goggles at lvl 17
Epic Snakeskin Gloves/Magnifying Lenses at lvl21
Legendary Keylock Ring/Legendary Experimenter's Goggles at Lvl 29

You can add some INT/WIS diamond Augs to the lvl29 items if you want to be doubly sure.

I hope that this helps.

Thanks for all the gear suggestions!

[Hobgoblin51]

I have a level 32 archer that gets any trap in the game. i started with 8 int.


that being said - i dont know what your char has.


this is an epic racial and class completionist.


i think im running around with 120 126 dd/search and 146ish ol


i have + 8 int tome + 6 int from past lives

so 22 int.

ship buffs 2 more.

yugo pot - 2 more

15 item (ring)

+5 ins

+2 profane

+2 bard song

+1 excep


51.

can up it more if i need - this is simple swaps or on gear already

for leveling i use gloves from wpm sides then keylock til 23 as im lazy.


then i get the big boom

i have an int lgs i have built.

this is 22 to all int skills - enhancement
then 11 insight
then 6 quality

so 39 in one item

So, Im not saying that you have to do that. im just saying it is possible and its more of what your willing to put in for it.

now the lower effort would be to go int based use harper max int and get the helm from age of rage.

but thats changing your build concept and i dont know if thats worth it

[Fauxknight]

There are 4 trapping skills to keep maxed out, rangers get 6+ int mod, so total.skill picks shouldn't be an issue. It's a matter of how high your search and disable are, and compared to gear and skill pucks your starting attribute is a relatively minor contribution to the total.

Basically take what gi es you the skill pick total you feel comfortable with.

My apologies I rushed this one on my phone and just assumed Dark Hunter was being used. With cross classing you need at least 8 points per level just to keep your skills up. So at 14 Int as a ranger you spend everything on trapping with no points left over.

2 levels of rogue and then Dark Hunter for the rest is a good solution. The rogue levels give you evasion back as well as access to easy bonus imbue dice. Dark Hunter makes all the trapping skills class skills and gives you some sneak attack dice. You still have access to Tempest and DS, so it shouldn't otherwise affect your action points.

I'm not sure why the build has 1 level of fighter...

[Kryxal]

Looks like the 1 Fighter is because 1 Rogue doesn't add much once you reach pre-archetype 9 Ranger for evasion. Instead, you get full BAB and an extra feat.

If you're not using Harper for INT to hit and damage, 14 appears to be sufficient for skills. Extra on top of that is just an extra +1, and you're probably better off doing that through gear.

[bracelet]

14 Int should be enough. But you will definitely need gear and or past lives to have high enough skills at end game.

Disable Device is fundamental -take that to 23 if at all possible.
Search is the next most important.
Spot should not be neglected. There is more benefit to it than just sensing traps before you walk into them. You get to see a lot more concealed mobs with a high spot.
You can probably stop Open Lock at around 10. The cool thing about Open Lock is you get to try again if you roll low.

The epic past life "Skill Mastery" adds three to everything if you have them all. This is extraordinarily powerful for skills oriented toons, and you get UMD out of it as well.

Don't forget Planar Gird or Greater Heroism scrolls. Teleport to the Portable Hole and go left for the latter.

Fundamentally, DCs are for the most part based around reasonable skill levels with level appropriate gear. It is not that hard to make a 14 Int work in most content.

[C-Dog]

I'm not sure why the build has 1 level of fighter...

3 (1/2) reasons:

• For an extra Feat
• For that feat 1-3 Levels early (as soon as you qualify), and then all later feats 3 levels earlier.
• If you take Fighter early (recommended, perhaps @ Character Level 4-5), for the great Kensai +8 damage boost, a winner in lowbie content (change to attack speed boost in later content)
• ...and the half... if not staying pure, Ranger (or DH) 19 offers very little, so you might as well pick something.*

* A ranged Trapmonkey might be better off with Barbarian (for the +10% Run/kite Speed), and some Dragonmarks can benefit from Wizard's free Metamagic (which, if either Maximize or Extend, also feeds into Ranger spells) and the 3 Utility spells. I've also seen Cleric suggested, for early Cure-Wand use. All depends on the exact build and the player's personal preferences.

[Fauxknight]

3 (1/2) reasons:

• For an extra Feat
• For that feat 1-3 Levels early (as soon as you qualify), and then all later feats 3 levels earlier.
• If you take Fighter early (recommended, perhaps @ Character Level 4-5), for the great Kensai +8 damage boost, a winner in lowbie content (change to attack speed boost in later content)
• ...and the half... if not staying pure, Ranger (or DH) 19 offers very little, so you might as well pick something.*

In the long term Rangers have ample feats and access to Haste Boost in Tempest. I'd do 2 Rogue/18 Ranger myself, but I tend to look more at endgame builds than lower level.

[C-Dog]

In the long term Rangers have ample feats and access to Haste Boost in Tempest.

I could quip "never enough feats", but your point is has validity.

However, that overlooks the 2nd point I made, of getting all feats 2-3 levels earlier. That cumulatively makes leveling significantly easier.

And a 2nd attack boost gives you 5 more boosts to use, so you're channeling a "never-ending fusillade" sort of vibe, with a boost for every fight. (Or you could just back out of Kensai and spend those 4 AP somewhere else, that always works too.)

I'd do 2 Rogue/18 Ranger myself, but I tend to look more at endgame builds than lower level.

Then, if I may ask - why Rogue 2? Early Evasion? Ranger 9 just too far away? (I could see it in HC, but if we're talking normal servers...?)

For my money, something that would make a diff at end game would be a better move.