Clerics unite! Did the Devs slap us in the face?

[Fireball241]

I return after a few years and this?

Are Clerics insulted by Paladins' getting True Rez, Resurrection and Raise Dead as a Heroic Lvl12 core enhancement?

It is even more insulting to Devines' that get these spells even later like Druid and Favored Soul.

Do you think this is out of balance?
A lvl9 spell obtained at Clr17 is available to Paladin at lvl12. It reduces divines to buff builds if Airship buffs run out.

Paladins will argue in my previous posts under Gen and Paladin threads that True Rez can not really be used at lvl12. They explained to me with limited spell slots for lvl4 spells that True Rez can not be taken early at PAL14 in competition with Holy Sword and Zeal. I see pure tanks taking it though.

I wonder why they were give True Rez at all and think Resurrection should maybe not be available till lvl 18 to 20 under core enhancements.
True Rez seems needed in R10 from what I read, but let the Spellcasters do it.

Now the War Domain and Holy Sword is a nice change. Holy Sword is much more effective now and universal for weapons. I get it. I have made better suggestions on Paladin the Gen boards to actually improve Paladin more in theme.

One change I would make to Paladin is to give them Radiance and give it earlier than Cleric. It goes with the theme of Dispel Magic of the Holy Sword in PnP. However Dispel Magic just does not seem used much in the game while Radiance is especially useful for a tank type melee. Knockdown is very effective by opponents in the game.

I would also like to see Paladin get some if not all of Holy Sword a little earlier and tier it to Paladin level or maybe lvl 7 to 10 get a lesser version. It is a feat for Clerics and requires a domain while just a interchangeable spell for Paladin. Technically Clerics get Radiance around lvl 7 from the RS t5 enhancements. Paladins deserve it sooner just based on the themes of DDO and PnP.

Another buff would be to improve Paladin "Aura of Good" to tier with Paladin Level. Maybe give this a Radiance effect. If the Paladin runs next to a Knocked down Ally then they rise!

I see what the Devs have done. The Paladin and Cleric are inverted while Druid/FavSoul are somewhere in-between. I want to see more of an inversion. Cleric is about right with Paladin getting some more things while losing this obvious imbalance and slap to spellcaster themed builds.

[rabidfox]

I'm indifferent that paladins get access that way at that level vs my divine healers and when they gain access. It saves them from swapping to raise/res scrolls like everyone else does. It's a zergy zoomy video game, getting people back on their feet fast when they die matters; so paladins having access helps the party move.

[merridyan]

Why does it matter if they get true rez earlier than a cleric? You keep harping on this point and I really don't understand why it is such a big deal in your mind.

[Fireball241]

Why does it matter if they get true rez earlier than a cleric? You keep harping on this point and I really don't understand why it is such a big deal in your mind.

You can enhance a class. I am glad they did to Paladin. Long time coming. Paladin was my first Character in DDO. I think about dusting him off.

There are always changes to the game. We assume it is for balance. The imbalances promote monetary change and that is not necessarily a bad thing either. Power creep is not bad if it keeps the game. Interesting and keeps the game profitable. That creates longevity.

But let's not turn balance and power creep into a joke. Let's use a little more creativity to balance things and add flavor. I made some suggestions I hope will be considered.

[mikarddo]

I don't even remotely consider this an important issue - and definitely not a "slap" anywhere.

[Alternative]

If you're gauging classes by when they get access to a rez spell, you're going to have serious problems when you reach the end game.

[Fireball241]

If you're gauging classes by when they get access to a rez spell, you're going to have serious problems when you reach the end game.

If you can explain that?

Then maybe I can understand why there is a total lack of common sense Class balancing?

Giving a class that is defined as a melee/tank a high lvl healing spell 5 to 6 levels earlier than another class defined as devoted to healing?

I did not know it was all about making end game easier I guess. After all what is the point of Powercreep?

Let's throw out basic common sense for it. I know it is a fantasy world, but there common sense in any world.

Maybe Devs got so wrapped up in end game. I think there was a better way. I mentioned those ways.

When you don't care about Heroic and just run Epic and end game I guess you don't notice. With the new Epic enhancement trees it blurs the lines. I am ok with this in terms of Epic and Legendary themes and Genre. You really notice the imbalance of this when you multi class in Heroic. Resurrection is a Tier 5 Epic enhancement in Unyielding Sentinel and a PAL12 Heroic core enhancement? Really?



I have been playing this kind of stuff since before some of these Devs were born. There are just some essential rules. For any fantasy world there are rules. If you break them you ruin it and call in to question the legitimacy of this game for this genre.

[Scrag]

If you can explain that?

Clerics get 3 flavors of raise dead, starting at level 5 spells, at cleric level 10. Whatever paladins get at 14 doesnt particularly matter, I am getting bring out your dead 4 levels earlier. That to me is clericness.