Increase Reaper Experience for Lower Level Quests

[Gordo]

I look at those with reaper wings with (non-jealous) envy.
I have neither the time nor patience to TR as much as these folks do to get over 5MM reaper XP (to get those wings).
Doing anything to make it easier would be (among other reasons) an insult to their tenacious grinding accomplishment.

I just got the reaper eyes on my caster and I am proud of that (500k reaper XP). Everyone has their play style and ability to suffer the grind as well.

DDO has a pretty darn good player base that tolerates people that can hold their own in R10 along with those that are completionists with 60+ TR...

The later is not for me but I work hard to be the former.

Only those who already have wings should be able to have any say re: anything that changes the ability for those that don't have them.

My two cents.

[axel15810]

I think a slight increase could be warranted for non-legendary quests. Specifically for R5+. R1-R4 shouldn't go up.

I do think endgame should remain the best place to be for reaper XP though. Leveling content shouldn't be on the same level in terms of reaper XP, though I would be ok with a slight bump for mid and high skulls when leveling. It's good for a healthy endgame to give people a strong incentive to stick around and play high skull endgame content at cap. There's already a strong incentive to stay in the reincarnation loop with past lives, take away too much from endgame you'll start getting "there's nothing to do at endgame" complaints. Endgame needs to be more than just raiding...legendary reaper XP farming is one of the other things filling that void at the moment.

[Oliphant]

I have a problem with giving people something to do at endgame... by giving them a way to farm permanent powah for HEROICs beyond anything you can do with heroic leveling.

[erethizon]

I look at those with reaper wings with (non-jealous) envy.
I have neither the time nor patience to TR as much as these folks do to get over 5MM reaper XP (to get those wings).
Doing anything to make it easier would be (among other reasons) an insult to their tenacious grinding accomplishment.

I just got the reaper eyes on my caster and I am proud of that (500k reaper XP). Everyone has their play style and ability to suffer the grind as well.

DDO has a pretty darn good player base that tolerates people that can hold their own in R10 along with those that are completionists with 60+ TR...

The later is not for me but I work hard to be the former.

Only those who already have wings should be able to have any say re: anything that changes the ability for those that don't have them.

My two cents.

If that is how you feel about it, I have 117 reaper points and I am calling for this. There is no reason that questing at level 30+ needs to give more reaper experience than other quests. It is not harder to run legendary quests on R10 than it is to run heroics on R10. If anything, legendary is easier because we have far more powerful abilities to make the content more trivial. You can cast mass hold in Legendary Heart of the Problem, but you can't in Heroic Heart of the Problem because you are too low in level to even have that spell. I can fully understand that people may not want to play high level heroic reaper because it is too difficult, but it shouldn't also be less rewarding.

Also, I would warn against only giving those of us with 75+ reaper points a voice in this debate. People are notorious for only wanting to promote things that benefit them. We got into this situation in the first place because the people that hate TRing, and only want to sit at cap running the same quests over and over, were complaining that they didn't get RXP as fast as people that TR'd, so they got the system changed and doubled the RXP they got for running quests at cap. These same people are likely to disagree with anything that will not benefit them such as giving decent RXP in heroics.

[erethizon]

I think a slight increase could be warranted for non-legendary quests. Specifically for R5+. R1-R4 shouldn't go up.

I do think endgame should remain the best place to be for reaper XP though. Leveling content shouldn't be on the same level in terms of reaper XP, though I would be ok with a slight bump for mid and high skulls when leveling. It's good for a healthy endgame to give people a strong incentive to stick around and play high skull endgame content at cap. There's already a strong incentive to stay in the reincarnation loop with past lives, take away too much from endgame you'll start getting "there's nothing to do at endgame" complaints. Endgame needs to be more than just raiding...legendary reaper XP farming is one of the other things filling that void at the moment.

We don't need to promote end game play any more than we already do. Sitting at cap running the same quests over and over should be for those people that want to do that. We don't need to make it the best way to accomplish a goal so that people that have no interest in doing that feel compelled to do it anyway.

[axel15810]

We don't need to promote end game play any more than we already do. Sitting at cap running the same quests over and over should be for those people that want to do that. We don't need to make it the best way to accomplish a goal so that people that have no interest in doing that feel compelled to do it anyway.

Disagree. And people only like sitting at endgame if there's attractive stuff to earn there. I could make the same argument in reverse about reincarnation and past lives by saying lots of players don't want to reincarnate but feel compelled to for past lives. I think it's balanced pretty well atm between endgame and reincarnation. Endgame is the best place to be to earn reaper XP. Reincarnation has all its past lives. Both are good ways to add permanent character power over time.

[Aaabbbcccddd]

I can only agree, reaper xp should be awarded for playing a difficult quest and not for playing a high level quest. Usually heroic quests are way harder than their counterparts in legendary on high reaper, just because you don't have the same amount of tools. I would bump up the rxp in heroics quiet a lot, because in the end rxp should kinda reflect your skill as a player and skill doesn't care about your level.

Someone playing from 1-20 on R10 is in my eyes equally skilled, as someone who plays R10 from 20-32. I don't see a reason to treat them differently by handing out so much less rxp on low levels.

And I don't expect a lot more people playing high reaper in heroics even if they buff the rxp gains, because R1 is so efficient. But sometimes you just want the challenge, and then it would be cool to be properly rewarded.

[Tilomere]

End game rewards are designed to promote store purchases of +1 hearts, tomes, and XP boosts.

What do you propose will replace the lost sales revenue?

We could remove the ability to purchase hearts with tokens of the 12 and commendations of valor and make them store-only items. That would enable replacing some end game monetization strategy.

[erethizon]

End game rewards are designed to promote store purchases of +1 hearts, tomes, and XP boosts.

What do you propose will replace the lost sales revenue?

We could remove the ability to purchase hearts with tokens of the 12 and commendations of valor and make them store-only items. That would enable replacing some end game monetization strategy.

I don't know what motivates the use of +1 hearts, but tomes and XP boosts are just as desired in low level game play as high level game play. Most of the XP potions I see people using are when they are not at end game, and tomes are useful at all levels (probably more so at lower levels when each point is more valuable because it makes up a higher percentage of your total points).

[Valtan]

We could remove the ability to purchase hearts with tokens of the 12 and commendations of valor and make them store-only items. That would enable replacing some end game monetization strategy.

Woah slow down tiger. This was supposed to happen way before you started playing the game, and whole player base went wild (for a good reason). They are making millions per year, with the highest ARPU in MMO industry. Money is never a problem for SSG - it is always between greed and improving the game. Dont feed their greed with ideas like these.

[Soulfurnace]

I don't know what motivates the use of +1 hearts.

Iconic builds that don't suck. Nobody wants that 1 barb on a shifter if they're making a competitive build. Or that ranger level on a scourge, when mauls exist.

[Tilomere]

I don't know what motivates the use of +1 hearts, but tomes and XP boosts are just as desired in low level game play as high level game play. Most of the XP potions I see people using are when they are not at end game, and tomes are useful at all levels (probably more so at lower levels when each point is more valuable because it makes up a higher percentage of your total points).

Progression is monetization and what is capable of being sold. It can be an xp barrier, which is reduced or removed or it can be power to self-progress, such as a +1 heart or ottos/weapon box.

Plus they would then have to replace the carrot and stick of becoming an uber caster and walking all over leveling content with balance.

If you want to allow more free progression in levels 1-31 and the balance required to make it fair, you need to replace the monetization by charging for progression elsewhere, and the motivation of becoming an uber caster. Would also require a full game rebalance, including self-healing penalty. No one wants to play R6 as a heroic melee or ranged, which is WAI since the sale of +1 hearts to make pure 20 dps casters out of iconics also supports the game.

Since progression is what is capable of being sold, that means an hourly bill for playing, a subscription, or cost to buy hearts/bypass level barriers. $0.50 a level would probably be a reasonable replacement.

[Oliphant]

End game rewards are designed to promote store purchases of +1 hearts, tomes, and XP boosts.

What do you propose will replace the lost sales revenue?

We could remove the ability to purchase hearts with tokens of the 12 and commendations of valor and make them store-only items. That would enable replacing some end game monetization strategy.

Make everything cheaper and I'll spin up alts, will have a bunch of tomes, etc to buy. Or you can squeeze a little more out of my saturated main toon that I (rationally) only really bother with since its so hopeless. Make alts a rational choice. Business 101, sell more units, market, multiply your units, addition is for shortsighted greedy suckers. You can try to sit back and max rent seek but it puts the tail risk on you, deprives you of real information until too late.

[Saekee]

I agree with the OP. Do something to give more reaper xp at lower levels. It is challenging to run reaper without all the bells and whistles that destinies offer, especially for the glass cannon class that I like to play.

People can still zerg their r1 for bonus xp and level quickly. This is just an option that the OP is asking for and I do not see what the problem is.

[slarden]

To put some actual #s to this.

Base XP for a level 9 quest on R10 is 50 + (3 * 9 * 10 ) = 320
Base XP for a level 34 quest on R2 is (50 + (3 * 34 * 2 )) * 2 = 508

Obviously running Jungle of Khyber on R10 at level is much harder than running a level 34 quest on R2, but less rewarding.

[adamkatt]

For kicks this life i ran one harbor quest on r10. one of the lvl 2s.. that netted me 450 rxp with a 30% pot running.. that same quest pays about 200-250rxp on r1.. no real point in running most heroics on high reaper...

[erethizon]

To put some actual #s to this.

Base XP for a level 9 quest on R10 is 50 + (3 * 9 * 10 ) = 320
Base XP for a level 34 quest on R2 is (50 + (3 * 34 * 2 )) * 2 = 508

Obviously running Jungle of Khyber on R10 at level is much harder than running a level 34 quest on R2, but less rewarding.

And that is before the doubling of reaper experience for level 30+ quests. I don't think there is a single quest that is level 30+ that does not give at least 1000 RXP even on R1 (though maybe that is true for something like Tavern Brawl). Mind you, I am including first time bonus. It is not uncommon to get only a few hundred RXP when running a heroic quest on high reaper even with first time bonus.

High reaper at very low level (before you have access to raise dead) is a real challenge and there is no reason not to reward it accordingly for the few willing to accept the challenge. I'm not saying to invest serious resources into low level reaper, but at the very least they could add a x5 multiplier for R4+ for heroic quests.

[erethizon]

For kicks this life i ran one harbor quest on r10. one of the lvl 2s.. that netted me 450 rxp with a 30% pot running.. that same quest pays about 200-250rxp on r1.. no real point in running most heroics on high reaper...

Yeah, that is a perfect example of what I am talking about. The equation for calculating RXP at low level is extremely inadequate. It strongly discourages high reaper play until you get to very high levels. I'm sure that wasn't their goal, but it is the overall effect.

[Rastallin]

That's a great idea, will bring new life to heriocs. It will also make herioc gear important, a lot of the time people can't be bothered going through their bank toons looking for gear, so they go 1-20 somewhat naked. Low level heriocs, r10 on a nuker, imagine the pots ssg will sell, win win.

[slarden]

And that is before the doubling of reaper experience for level 30+ quests. I don't think there is a single quest that is level 30+ that does not give at least 1000 RXP even on R1 (though maybe that is true for something like Tavern Brawl). Mind you, I am including first time bonus. It is not uncommon to get only a few hundred RXP when running a heroic quest on high reaper even with first time bonus.

High reaper at very low level (before you have access to raise dead) is a real challenge and there is no reason not to reward it accordingly for the few willing to accept the challenge. I'm not saying to invest serious resources into low level reaper, but at the very least they could add a x5 multiplier for R4+ for heroic quests.

The level 34 quest did include the doubling- apologies for not showing details on the math, it's the *2 with the entire calc inside parentheses.

To your point, they could easily change the heroic formula to include a conditional multiplier based on skull since they are already doing that based on level. That is a solid and simple solution the devs should consider.