Build Advice: Bladeforged paladin THF DPS build

[ElrondElfKing]

Looking for a good build for an iconic Bladeforged paladin for high DPS, survivability, THF, heavy armor, max HP. Also, can I use a greataxe as a favored weapon, or am I limited to a greatsword for favored weapon? Thanks in advance.

Also, is it correct that if I do an Iconic TR, I get the iconic past life feat and the paladin past life feat?

[unbongwah]

Also, can I use a greataxe as a favored weapon, or am I limited to a greatsword for favored weapon?

There's no way to get greataxes as Favored weapons, unfortunately. At level 23, you can take Axiom of Faith from Divine Crusader to add a Favored weapon; but the only 2H options are quarterstaff, maul, and greatswords. As a Bladeforged, you'd start with greatswords as your Favored weapon (Lord of Blades); and without Blessing of Silvanus' +2 crit range bonus, there's no real reason to switch to mauls (apart from roleplay flavor or DR-breaking).

Bladeforged 2H paladin builds are dead-simple, the only question mark is whether you're going STR-based or CHA-based with Feydark Illusionist. Feats are essentially the same either way: Adamantine Body, THF x3, Improved+Overwhelming Critical, Power Attack (or Precision with DEX tome), Quicken Spell (optional but I find Reconstruct SLA hella slow without it), Perfect THF, blah blah blah. If you're going with Feydark, you'll need Magical Training in heroics, but can swap it out once you get to epics if you pick an ED with free Magical Training like Shadowdancer or Fatesinger.

Also, is it correct that if I do an Iconic TR, I get the iconic past life feat and the paladin past life feat?

Yes.

[ElrondElfKing]

There's no way to get greataxes as Favored weapons, unfortunately. At level 23, you can take Axiom of Faith from Divine Crusader to add a Favored weapon; but the only 2H options are quarterstaff, maul, and greatswords. As a Bladeforged, you'd start with greatswords as your Favored weapon (Lord of Blades); and without Blessing of Silvanus' +2 crit range bonus, there's no real reason to switch to mauls (apart from roleplay flavor or DR-breaking)..

That's what I thought. I normally use greataxes, but I have a decent stash of greatswords, too.

Bladeforged 2H paladin builds are dead-simple, the only question mark is whether you're going STR-based or CHA-based with Feydark Illusionist. Feats are essentially the same either way: Adamantine Body, THF x3, Improved+Overwhelming Critical, Power Attack (or Precision with DEX tome), Quicken Spell (optional but I find Reconstruct SLA hella slow without it), Perfect THF, blah blah blah. If you're going with Feydark, you'll need Magical Training in heroics, but can swap it out once you get to epics if you pick an ED with free Magical Training like Shadowdancer or Fatesinger.

Yes.

For a STR-based paladin, what would the starting abilities look like for a 36 point build? I'm a little torn on how much to put into STR, CON, AND CHA.

[unbongwah]

For a STR-based paladin, what would the starting abilities look like for a 36 point build? I'm a little torn on how much to put into STR, CON, AND CHA.

Probably either max STR & CHA with rest into CON; or perhaps STR 18 CON 16 CHA 16 with remaining points into DEX (so you can pick up Precision after tome) and/or INT for more skill points.

EDIT: the latter would look something like this.

Character name: THF BF Sacred Knight
Classes: 20 Paladin, 10 Epic, 2 Legendary
Race: Bladeforged · · · · ·Alignment: Lawful Good

· · ·Start Tome Final · · ·Incorp:· · ·0% · · ·Displacement:· · 0%
Str:· · 18· · 0 · ·26 · · ·HP:· · · ·1344 · · ·AC:· · 21
Dex:· · ·8· · 5 · ·13 · · ·PRR: · · · ·91
Con:· · 16· · 0 · ·17 · · ·MRR: · · · ·16 · · ·+Healing Amp:· · 30
Int:· · 10· · 2 · ·12 · · ·Dodge: · ·0/25 · · ·-Healing Amp: 4294967246
Wis:· · ·6· · 0 · · 6 · · ·Fort:· · · 54% · · ·Repair Amp:· · · 70
Cha:· · 16· · 0 · ·20 · · ·SR:· · · · · 0 · · ·BAB: · · · · · · 25
DR: 2\Adamantine
Immunities: Natural Disease, Magical Disease, Super-Natural Disease, Fear, Sleep, Energy Drain, Nausea, Sickness, Exhaustion, Paralysis, Energy Drain, Fear

Special Feats
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Divine Crusader
Draconic Incarnation
Exalted Angel
Fatesinger
Fury of the Wild
Grandmaster of Flowers
Legendary Dreadnought
Magus of the Eclipse
Primal Avatar
Shadowdancer
Shiradi Champion
Unyielding Sentinel
Vistani Knife Fighter Tree


Class and Feat Selection
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Level Class · · · · · ·Feats
1 · · Paladin(1)· · · ·Standard: Adamantine Body
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Follower of Faith: Follower of the Lord of Blades
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Class Skills: Concentration(4)
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Cross Class Skills: Use Magic Device(4)
2 · · Paladin(2)· · · ·
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Class Skills: Concentration(1)
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Cross Class Skills: Tumble(2)
3 · · Paladin(3)· · · ·Standard: Two Handed Fighting
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Class Skills: Concentration(1)
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Cross Class Skills: Use Magic Device(2)
4 · · Paladin(4)· · · ·Strength: +1 Level up
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Class Skills: Concentration(1)
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Cross Class Skills: Repair(2)
5 · · Paladin(5)· · · ·
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Class Skills: Concentration(1)
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Cross Class Skills: Use Magic Device(2)
6 · · Paladin(6)· · · ·Standard: Improved Two Handed Fighting
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Deity: Bladesworn Transformation
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Class Skills: Concentration(1)
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Cross Class Skills: Repair(2)
7 · · Paladin(7)· · · ·
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Class Skills: Concentration(1)
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Cross Class Skills: Use Magic Device(2)
8 · · Paladin(8)· · · ·Strength: +1 Level up
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Class Skills: Concentration(1)
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Cross Class Skills: Repair(2)
9 · · Paladin(9)· · · ·Standard: Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Class Skills: Concentration(1)
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Cross Class Skills: Use Magic Device(2)
10· · Paladin(10) · · ·
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Class Skills: Concentration(1)
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Cross Class Skills: Repair(2)
11· · Paladin(11) · · ·
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Class Skills: Concentration(1)
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Cross Class Skills: Use Magic Device(2)
12· · Paladin(12) · · ·Standard: Greater Two Handed Fighting
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Strength: +1 Level up
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Class Skills: Concentration(1)
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Cross Class Skills: Repair(2)
13· · Paladin(13) · · ·
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Class Skills: Concentration(1)
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Cross Class Skills: Use Magic Device(2)
14· · Paladin(14) · · ·
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Class Skills: Concentration(1)
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Cross Class Skills: Repair(2)
15· · Paladin(15) · · ·Standard: Precision
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Class Skills: Concentration(1)
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Cross Class Skills: Use Magic Device(2)
16· · Paladin(16) · · ·Strength: +1 Level up
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Class Skills: Concentration(1)
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Cross Class Skills: Repair(2)
17· · Paladin(17) · · ·
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Class Skills: Concentration(1)
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Cross Class Skills: Use Magic Device(2)
18· · Paladin(18) · · ·Standard: Quicken Spell
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Class Skills: Concentration(1)
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Cross Class Skills: Repair(2)
19· · Paladin(19) · · ·
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Class Skills: Concentration(1)
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Cross Class Skills: Use Magic Device(2)
20· · Paladin(20) · · ·Strength: +1 Level up
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Class Skills: Concentration(1)
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Cross Class Skills: Repair(2)
21· · Epic(1) · · · · ·Epic Feat: Overwhelming Critical
22· · Epic(2) · · · · ·Epic Destiny Feat: Perfect Two Handed Fighting
23· · Epic(3) · · · · ·
24· · Epic(4) · · · · ·Epic Feat: Construct Exemplar
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Strength: +1 Level up
25· · Epic(5) · · · · ·Epic Destiny Feat: Crush Weakness
26· · Epic(6) · · · · ·
27· · Epic(7) · · · · ·Epic Feat: Epic Damage Reduction
28· · Epic(8) · · · · ·Epic Destiny Feat: Embodiment of Law
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Strength: +1 Level up
29· · Epic(9) · · · · ·
30· · Epic(10)· · · · ·Epic Feat: Epic Fortitude
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Legendary: Scion of Arborea
31· · Legendary(1)· · ·Epic Destiny Feat: Enhanced Elemental Dice
32· · Legendary(2)· · ·Strength: +1 Level up

Granted Feats
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Deflect Arrows
Diehard
Favored enemy: Undead
Improved Trip
Knight's Training
Shot on the Run
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Skills
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Skill Points· · · 8 ·3· 3 ·3· 3 ·3· 3 ·3· 3 ·3· 3 ·3· 3 ·3· 3 ·3· 3 ·3· 3 ·3
Skill Name· · · ·01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20· Total Buffed
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Balance · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 0.0 · ·7.0
Bluff · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 0.0 · 15.0
Concentration · · 4 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· ·23.0 · 36.0
Diplomacy · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 0.0 · 15.0
Disable Device· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 0.0 · 11.0
Haggle· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 0.0 · 15.0
Heal· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 0.0 · ·8.0
Hide· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 0.0 · ·6.0
Intimidate· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 0.0 · 15.0
Jump· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 0.0 · 14.0
Listen· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 0.0 · ·8.0
Move Silently · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 0.0 · ·6.0
Open Lock · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 0.0 · 11.0
Perform · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 0.0 · 15.0
Repair· · · · · · · · · · ·1· · ·1· · ·1· · ·1· · ·1· · ·1· · ·1· · ·1· · ·1· · 9.0 · 23.0
Search· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 0.0 · 11.0
Spell Craft · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 0.0 · 11.0
Spot· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 0.0 · ·8.0
Swim· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 0.0 · ·8.0
Tumble· · · · · · · ·1· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 1.0 · ·8.0
Use Magic Device· 2 · · 1 · · 1 · · 1 · · 1 · · 1 · · 1 · · 1 · · 1 · · 1 · · ·11.0 · 26.0
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Available Points· 0 ·0· 0 ·0· 0 ·0· 0 ·0· 0 ·0· 0 ·0· 0 ·0· 0 ·0· 0 ·0· 0 ·0
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Active Auto Controlled Stances
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Empty Offhand
Bladeforged
Aura of Courage
Heavy Armor
Good
Lawful
Aura of Good
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Enhancements: 80 APs
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bladeforged - Points spent: 18
Core1 Improved Fortification I
Tier1 Repair Systems: Mechanist - 3 Ranks
Core2 Constitution I
Tier2 Communion of Scribing - 3 Ranks
Tier2 Great Weapon Aptitude - 3 Ranks
Tier4 Soulbound Plating
Tier4 Power of the Forge
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Knight of the Chalice - Points spent: 41
Core1 Slayer of Evil I
Tier1 Improved Second Strikes - 3 Ranks
Tier1 Extra Smite - 1 Ranks
Tier2 Exalted Attack: Exalted Cleave
Tier2 Action Boost: Melee/Ranged Power - 3 Ranks
Tier2 Divine Might - 3 Ranks
Core2 Courage of Heaven
Core3 Slayer of Evil II
Tier3 Holy Combatant II
Tier3 Lead the Charge - 1 Ranks
Tier3 Exalted Smite: Exalted Smite - 3 Ranks
Tier3 Divine Sacrifice: Divine Sacrifice - 1 Ranks
Core4 Improved Courage of Heaven
Tier4 Censure Demons
Tier4 Knight's Training
Tier4 Vigor of Life I
Tier5 Ascendancy
Tier5 Censure Outsiders
Tier5 Avenging Attack: Avenging Cleave
Tier5 Holy Retribution: Holy Retribution
Core5 Slayer of Evil III
Tier5 Vigor of Life II
Core6 Champion of Good
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sacred Defender - Points spent: 12
Core1 Holy Bastion
Tier1 Extra Lay on Hands - 3 Ranks
Tier1 Improved Sacred Defense I: Durable Defense - 3 Ranks
Core2 Sacred Defence
Tier2 Instinctive Defense - 2 Ranks
Tier3 Greater Sacred Defense I: Strong Defense - 2 Ranks
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vistani Knife Fighter - Points spent: 9
Core1 Knife Expertise
Tier1 Undead Hunter
Tier1 Mist Stalker I
Tier1 Acrobatic - 1 Ranks
Tier2 Haste Boost - 3 Ranks
Core2 Knife Juggler
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Epic Destinies: 40 APs + 12 permanent Destiny Points
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fury of the Wild - Points spent: 37
Core1 Die Hard
Tier1 Epic Strike: Adrenaline - 3 Ranks
Tier1 Mantle of Fury - 3 Ranks
Core2 Die Harder
Tier2 Speed or Strength: Boulder's Might - 3 Ranks
Core3 Die Hardest
Tier3 Sense Weakness - 3 Ranks
Tier3 Force of Fury: Furious Force - 3 Ranks
Tier3 Wild Weapons: Strike Through - 3 Ranks
Core4 Be the Whirlwind
Tier4 Top Dog
Tier4 Wade Through: Wade Through - Strike Through - 3 Ranks
Tier4 Force Selector: Overwhelming Force - 3 Ranks
Tier5 Lore of the Wilds
Tier5 Scarred by Chaos
Tier5 Unbridled Fury
Tier5 Nature's Fury
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Legendary Dreadnought - Points spent: 23
Core1 Fearless
Tier1 Dire Attack: Dire Charge
Tier1 Push Through The Line - 3 Ranks
Tier1 Epic Tactics - 1 Ranks
Tier2 Ghost Touch
Tier2 Life and Death - 3 Ranks
Core2 Weaponmaster
Tier2 Extra Action Boosts - 3 Ranks
Core3 Thick Skinned
Tier3 Momentum Swing
Tier3 Strike Twice - 3 Ranks
Tier4 Lay Waste
Core4 Unparalleled Accuracy
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Spell Like / Special Abilities
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lay on Hands· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 
Remove Disease· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 
Reconstruct · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Weapon Damage
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Melee Power:· 152.0
Doublestrike: 6%
Strikethrough: 100%
Mainhand damage ability multiplier: 1
Offhand damage ability multiplier: 0
Off-Hand attack Chance: 20%
Fortification Bypass: 21%
Dodge Bypass: 0%
Helpless Damage bonus: 65%
Ranged Power: 134.0
Doubleshot Chance: 6%

Sneak Attack Attack bonus: 0
Sneak Attack Damage: 0d6+0

EDIT: if you don't have Vistani Knife Fighter, you can put those APs into Sacred Defender; see below for suggestions. Or if you have extra APs from tomes and/or racial PLs, you can bump up Vistani to grab Quick Reflexes (free Quick Draw feat and +5% Doublestrike).

[ElrondElfKing]

Probably either max STR & CHA with rest into CON; or perhaps STR 18 CON 16 CHA 16 with remaining points into DEX (so you can pick up Precision after tome) and/or INT for more skill points.


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I suppose the whole point of CHA for a Paladin is for Turn Undead and Lay on Hands, right? Otherwise he'd be just another Fighter.

[the_one_dwarfforged]

Probably either max STR & CHA with rest into CON; or perhaps STR 18 CON 16 CHA 16 with remaining points into DEX (so you can pick up Precision after tome) and/or INT for more skill points.

EDIT: the latter would look something like this.

Adjustments to this build I recommend:

Instinctive Defense in SaD to SAM. If you can't fill the Dodge cap, I'd use Bulwark Aura, Resilient Defense, or Item Defense (underrated talent) instead. If you are made helpless more often than the CD of your Harper Pin I'd suggest changing tactics is the better solution. Between WF being immune to holds, with decent con and Pally saves, and the general infrequency of stunning enemies, getting stunned should almost never happen. I don't think there are too many other things that should make you helpless. Things like Otto's Dancing Ball (which doesn't cause helpless damage) can be blown out with Gust of Wind scrolls. Symbols of Stunning you can dip your toe into and get out before it actually triggers the stun effect. Use CC/LoS/chokes.

Drop points as needed (but specifically from BF tree) to reach 21 points in VKF for another 5% double strike. Haste Boost and MP Boost are already taken, PotF will probably just be overkill 99% of the time. In content where BF Repair is useful, I'd argue 5% QHP is unnecessary or unhelpful.

Replace Epic Fortitude with Blinding Speed, WF: [your weapon type], or Stunning Blow. Or anything more impactful. If taking SB I'd try to slot it sooner as much as possible (24 IG, 21 if you enjoy it that much).

Take 5% DS at lvl 22 ED feat, PTHF lvl 25. Crush Weakness is extremely unnecessary IMO. If using Adrenaline you should be able to overkill most adds by a healthy margin, and with optimization you can (obviously this will heavily depend on context; build, helplessness, buffs, rolls, gear, progression) do over 100k first number damage. Crush Weakness doesn't provide any boss damage, while 5% DS provides boss and trash damage.

Since running BF and having high self healing via Repair and a Positive Energy healing penalty I'd consider dropping the FotW mantle. It's not bad even with reduced benefit to just get a bit of ticking health and 6% ArP but you can go GMoF mantle and movement speed, knockdown/slippery immunity, and +1[W]. I haven't tested the knockdown/[W] portions of this with heavy armor, but the movement speed appears to work giving about a 10% speed increase. Going this route would also net +4 stun DC (if using Dire Charge that is relevant), and if you grab both cores 1 and 2 10 MP, 30 HP, 5 PRR and a DR bypass. Only 2 more total points spent over FotW mantle. Alternatively if the defense from FotW mantle is unnecessary, Dread Mantle is +1[W] and a debuff for 3 points instead of 6% ArP for 6 points.

I would switch all of the Strikethrough in FotW to DS. I would also be willing to drop points from the T3 version for other important things if you don't need the points as a prereq for T4 (the T3 is not a direct prereq for the T4 DS/Strikethrough).

I would consider switching Life and Death to Dusk Armor. If you can't fill the Dodge cap, maybe don't do this.

Personally unless I am optimizing for maximum performance I prefer to only use 2/3 ranks of things like Push Through the Line. If using any tactical abilities at all, I would drop the extra point into Epic Tactics for a little bit more consistent value.

I would consider dropping Top Dog. If using Dire Charge this just seems unnecessary. Without Dire Charge, Adrenaline knocks down when upgraded, and with Strikethrough you can trip 2+ targets every time. Taking Stunning Blow further reduces the need for AoE CC. The AoE CC from improved trip is lvl 30+ anyway.

I would consider taking Voice of Fury. More STR (2 STR = 1 hit, 1 DCs, 2.5 dam pre MP), more AC, more HP, more saves. Can boost Primal Scream damage (which is actually good to use for AoE damage) and CC.

Consider Unquenchable Rage. Even if you don't get a ton of value out of the healing because of being a robot the additional layer of damage reduction is hot.

I don't understand taking Lore of the Wilds, perhaps the effect does not match the description and just hands out HP.

I suppose the whole point of CHA for a Paladin is for Turn Undead and Lay on Hands, right? Otherwise he'd be just another Fighter.

CHA gives saves, Smite damage, DM scaling, and LoH. I've never known Paladins to actually do any turning in DDO. They are pretty much a different flavor of Fighter.

[ElrondElfKing]

CHA gives saves, Smite damage, DM scaling, and LoH. I've never known Paladins to actually do any turning in DDO. They are pretty much a different flavor of Fighter.

I normally get a message that I "lack conviction."

[Mamalian]

I don't believe there is any such thing as a "THF Paladin DPS" build.