Secrets of Sharn - Too Hot to Handle Secret Optional(s)/Mechanic(s)

[Cordovan]

I am not aware of anything secret or undiscovered in Too Hot to Handle. I believe Sev's comment was along the lines of, "I'm not going to comment on secret content." I appreciate a good tease as much as anyone, but I'd hate to see players dedicate time and resources for a wild goose chase.

[Magnus_Arcanis]

I am not aware of anything secret or undiscovered in Too Hot to Handle. I believe Sev's comment was along the lines of, "I'm not going to comment on secret content." I appreciate a good tease as much as anyone, but I'd hate to see players dedicate time and resources for a wild goose chase.

Can't thank you enough for being considerate.

Puzzles like these can really over take one's life and I for one will sleep better.

Thanks again!

[karatemack]

I am not aware of anything secret or undiscovered in Too Hot to Handle. I believe Sev's comment was along the lines of, "I'm not going to comment on secret content." I appreciate a good tease as much as anyone, but I'd hate to see players dedicate time and resources for a wild goose chase.

Well, thanks for putting a pin in it! Off to the next mystery. :P

[Logicman69]

I am not aware of anything secret or undiscovered in Too Hot to Handle. I believe Sev's comment was along the lines of, "I'm not going to comment on secret content." I appreciate a good tease as much as anyone, but I'd hate to see players dedicate time and resources for a wild goose chase.

Speaking of undescovered secrets.... When are we going to find out about Project Nemesis and what is behind that huge **** door!!!!

[Arkat]

I am not aware of anything secret or undiscovered in Too Hot to Handle. I believe Sev's comment was along the lines of, "I'm not going to comment on secret content." I appreciate a good tease as much as anyone, but I'd hate to see players dedicate time and resources for a wild goose chase.

Then a simple statement from you, Sev, or the creator of THTH (Torc?) that answers our question(s) would be much appreciated.

[Arkat]

Well, thanks for putting a pin in it! Off to the next mystery. :P

Except that answer didn't really address the statement by Steelstar (or whomever) that said they were able to do something in-house that allowed them to consistently complete the raid successfully. IIRC, the statement was made very shortly after the raid was released and addressed several posts that complained about the raid difficulty.

That post could have also contained the statement where the Dev told us that at one point, they considered calling the raid "Go Die In a Fire," "Die In a Fire," or something similar. I doubt they were seriously thinking of calling it that, but it was clear they had at least thought of it.

[karatemack]

Except that answer didn't really address the statement by Steelstar (or whomever) that said they were able to do something in-house that allowed them to consistently complete the raid successfully. IIRC, the statement was made very shortly after the raid was released and addressed several posts that complained about the raid difficulty.

That post could have also contained the statement where the Dev told us that at one point, they considered calling the raid "Go Die In a Fire," "Die In a Fire," or something similar. I doubt they were seriously thinking of calling it that, but it was clear they had at least thought of it.

Maybe it's the not-upgrading thing Arcanaverse mentioned?

[Arkat]

Maybe it's the not-upgrading thing Arcanaverse mentioned?

I think that's what it is, too. However, I can't imagine why Cordo couldn't or wouldn't confirm it.

The raid's what, four years old?

Letting the cat out of the bag won't exactly break the raid or result in an undesired "avalanche" of Normal/Hard completions.

[slarden]

Letting the cat out of the bag won't exactly break the raid or result in an undesired "avalanche" of Normal/Hard completions.

To be fair pug groups aren't having trouble completing on normal any more and a reasonably organized party with a few pug spots can handle hard.

The problem with this raid from the start was that it was all about fast boss dps and there were just too many low dps builds out there at the time. The devs teased players were missing something which is why players never stopped looking for what it is they were talking about. As far as I know there were no new discoveries about that raid since the dev comments.

All builds got a boost since then, but some of the lowest single-target builds received the largest increases which effectively solved all the problems with pugging this raid. I mean a party can still blow this raid, but I think it's unlikely they won't be able to recover and complete the next time.

If there is any cheat code for this raid it's sunburst. I remember being told early on not to turn undead because it can fail where sunburst never fails if you have the DC. So this information about turn undead is kind of interesting as a few raid leaders on sarlona would go ballistic if they saw someone turning undead - they wanted sunburst and only sunburst. I guess they were wrong.

If they want to introduce a ftp raid with crazy difficulty I think it's fine, but people spending big $ on an xpac should be able to at least complete a raid on normal even if it takes a few tries. That was not the case with thth - you really needed some people that new how to build for dps to get it done. An average dps group couldn't complete the raid on normal at the time it was released. If they want to make it hard to complete on elite, at mechanics at that level.

[LightBear]

Except that answer didn't really address the statement by Steelstar (or whomever) that said they were able to do something in-house that allowed them to consistently complete the raid successfully. IIRC, the statement was made very shortly after the raid was released and addressed several posts that complained about the raid difficulty.

That post could have also contained the statement where the Dev told us that at one point, they considered calling the raid "Go Die In a Fire," "Die In a Fire," or something similar. I doubt they were seriously thinking of calling it that, but it was clear they had at least thought of it.

First time I did that raid was on R1 as a 12th man for some group of players (one guild) that knew exactly what they needed to do.
The raid was over in less than ten minutes or so.
It was the smoothest run I have ever seen since as no forge wrights merged ever.
Three days after that a PUG was up for a run on Hard.
I joined that one thinking it would be ever faster and smoother than that first run I did.
But nope, I was unpleasantly surprised that we could fail so hard.

[Cordovan]

Then a simple statement from you, Sev, or the creator of THTH (Torc?) that answers our question(s) would be much appreciated.

Get me your specific questions and I can ask around. It sounds like you are asking about strategy?

[Bjond]

Turn Undead [..] How certain am I that is what the rumor is all about? 75% ish?

Thanks for the sleuthing and for posting your findings, reasoning, and speculations. I think you've got it with Turn Undead.

Another point in favor of Turn Undead being the "missing piece" is that Turn is almost universally ignored. Sharn era and later with the new EDs is when SSG started trying to breath new life into bad never-used features.

IMHO, a strong clue should have been woven into Sharn. Maybe part of main sharn story -- so obvious it's ignored; eg. clerics preaching against the wraiths, giving bonus mats for any wraith "turned or killed", etc.. Then we'd look back and think. Duh, they clued us over and over with all the turn-or-kill lines.

Hoping players discover this one in a reasonable time frame meant relying on one of three people game wide (those that use Turn) -- a slim hope indeed.

[karatemack]

Thanks for the sleuthing and for posting your findings, reasoning, and speculations. I think you've got it with Turn Undead.

Another point in favor of Turn Undead being the "missing piece" is that Turn is almost universally ignored. Sharn era and later with the new EDs is when SSG started trying to breath new life into bad never-used features.

IMHO, a strong clue should have been woven into Sharn. Maybe part of main sharn story -- so obvious it's ignored; eg. clerics preaching against the wraiths, giving bonus mats for any wraith "turned or killed", etc.. Then we'd look back and think. Duh, they clued us over and over with all the turn-or-kill lines.

Hoping players discover this one in a reasonable time frame meant relying on one of three people game wide (those that use Turn) -- a slim hope indeed.

I mean, a few of us used Turn Undead (and other abilities) in there from day 1 and all of the wraiths still upgraded. It's neat if it's different now though.

[Arkat]

Get me your specific questions and I can ask around. It sounds like you are asking about strategy?

No, not strategy specifically.

Back when the THTH raid first came out (or shortly thereafter) Steelstar (or one of the other Devs) that said in a forum post that they (SSG employees) were able to do something in-house that allowed them to consistently complete the raid successfully. IIRC, that response was due to several DDO Forum posts that complained about raid difficulty.

This thread puts forth the hypothesis that there is still some "trick" left to find that was enabling the in-house SSG crew to complete the raid fairly easily and consistently. I cannot remember if the post in question mentioned on what difficulty/difficulties they were able to do this or not.


The OP of this thread suggests the Dev that commented was referring to a mechanic that either we haven't found yet (something to do with the purple lights on the color switching puzzles in the upper area of that raid area), OR the fact that Turn Undead (whether successful or not) seems to prevent the Forgewraiths from "upgrading" to orange-named or red-named versions.

Was that Dev referring to either of those? Or were they suggesting something else entirely - maybe another mechanic we haven't seriously considered yet?


EDIT: Sorry for the edits. I wanted to make my post a little more clear.

[Impaqt]

No, not strategy specifically.

Back when the THTH raid first came out (or shortly thereafter) Steelstar (or one of the other Devs) that said in a forum post that they (SSG employees) were able to do something in-house that allowed them to consistently complete the raid successfully. IIRC, that response was due to several DDO Forum posts that complained about raid difficulty.

This thread puts forth the hypothesis that there is still some "trick" left to find that was enabling the in-house SSG crew to complete the raid fairly easily and consistently. I cannot remember if the post in question mentioned on what difficulty/difficulties they were able to do this or not.


The OP of this thread suggests the Dev that commented was referring to a mechanic that either we haven't found yet (something to do with the purple lights on the color switching puzzles in the upper area of that raid area), OR the fact that Turn Undead (whether successful or not) seems to prevent the Forgewraiths from "upgrading" to orange-named or red-named versions.

Was that Dev referring to either of those? Or were they suggesting something else entirely - maybe another mechanic we haven't seriously considered yet?


EDIT: Sorry for the edits. I wanted to make my post a little more clear.

that totally sounds like you are asking what strategy the devs in question were using.

[Arkat]

that totally sounds like you are asking what strategy the devs in question were using.

The Dev I mentioned in the post above distinctly implied there was a mechanic involved that made the raid simpler to complete. Whether it was how the Forgewraiths reacted to Turn Undead or how the purple colors in the puzzles may have affected the trash, Forgewraiths, or skulls, we're talking about a mechanic of the raid.

Now if there's a "safe" spot that all the SSG employees knew about and gathered there to attack the boss Forgewraith with impunity, then we'd be talking about a strategy (e.g. stand in a certain place until X happens).

[Cashiry]

To be fair pug groups aren't having trouble completing on normal any more and a reasonably organized party with a few pug spots can handle hard.

The problem with this raid from the start was that it was all about fast boss dps and there were just too many low dps builds out there at the time. The devs teased players were missing something which is why players never stopped looking for what it is they were talking about. As far as I know there were no new discoveries about that raid since the dev comments.

All builds got a boost since then, but some of the lowest single-target builds received the largest increases which effectively solved all the problems with pugging this raid. I mean a party can still blow this raid, but I think it's unlikely they won't be able to recover and complete the next time.

If there is any cheat code for this raid it's sunburst. I remember being told early on not to turn undead because it can fail where sunburst never fails if you have the DC. So this information about turn undead is kind of interesting as a few raid leaders on sarlona would go ballistic if they saw someone turning undead - they wanted sunburst and only sunburst. I guess they were wrong.

If they want to introduce a ftp raid with crazy difficulty I think it's fine, but people spending big $ on an xpac should be able to at least complete a raid on normal even if it takes a few tries. That was not the case with thth - you really needed some people that new how to build for dps to get it done. An average dps group couldn't complete the raid on normal at the time it was released. If they want to make it hard to complete on elite, at mechanics at that level.

I’m not sure who you have been raiding with on Sarlona. But I take my turn cleric in many pug THTH raids and turn all day long and typically have the highest kill count in either normal or hard settings. I have been doing so for 3 plus years. After my return to the game, my guild mates preferred the sunburst method, however when I showed them what turning could do they welcomed it as it made the raid that much smoother on N/H.

my cleric can turn in R1 THTH. however she doesn’t have the reaper points to be viable yet in that setting.

On a side note: orange wraiths who are warded do cower for a minute when they have been turned.

[Cordovan]

No, not strategy specifically.

Back when the THTH raid first came out (or shortly thereafter) Steelstar (or one of the other Devs) that said in a forum post that they (SSG employees) were able to do something in-house that allowed them to consistently complete the raid successfully. IIRC, that response was due to several DDO Forum posts that complained about raid difficulty.

This thread puts forth the hypothesis that there is still some "trick" left to find that was enabling the in-house SSG crew to complete the raid fairly easily and consistently. I cannot remember if the post in question mentioned on what difficulty/difficulties they were able to do this or not.


The OP of this thread suggests the Dev that commented was referring to a mechanic that either we haven't found yet (something to do with the purple lights on the color switching puzzles in the upper area of that raid area), OR the fact that Turn Undead (whether successful or not) seems to prevent the Forgewraiths from "upgrading" to orange-named or red-named versions.

Was that Dev referring to either of those? Or were they suggesting something else entirely - maybe another mechanic we haven't seriously considered yet?


EDIT: Sorry for the edits. I wanted to make my post a little more clear.

I don't think the comment was meant to indicate a mechanic that hadn't been found yet. At the time players were largely just trying to DPS brute force their way through the raid rather than work through the mechanics, and that comment was (I think) intended to be a general indicator that the mechanics of the raid will help with completion.

[Arkat]

I don't think the comment was meant to indicate a mechanic that hadn't been found yet. At the time players were largely just trying to DPS brute force their way through the raid rather than work through the mechanics, and that comment was (I think) intended to be a general indicator that the mechanics of the raid will help with completion.

Ok, thank you for the response.

Can I ask just one more question on this, then?

What is the purpose of the Violet lights in the four "change the color" puzzles?

[Sqrlmonger]

I don't think the comment was meant to indicate a mechanic that hadn't been found yet. At the time players were largely just trying to DPS brute force their way through the raid rather than work through the mechanics, and that comment was (I think) intended to be a general indicator that the mechanics of the raid will help with completion.

Is there Dev awareness that this raid and Hunter & Hunted tend to generate considerable lag spikes? They occur right when you need to take quick and decisive action to prevent mechanics from spiraling out of control in both raids.

I'm not sure if Devs would see this in testing if it was done on a development server without real-world demands.