(Pure) Fighters seem just... Boring... :/

[Buddha5440]

I want to disagree with this statement heavily.
Our 4-man friend group who is playing (at moment of writing in 22-23 level range, though soon probably reincarnating to join new player) has a pure 20-level fighter in the team. Classic dwarf with shield and axe.
The thing is, he invested tons into Shield Bash and usual kensei critical builds in addition to some levels of vanguard. Even before we hit Epics, he had some of highest DPS in our party (for comparison, we have a Ranger, Wizard/Rogue 18/2 and a 2H Cleric). Even in Epics, the joke is that "only reason he is not killing everything by existing is because some enemies are Undead, and Wizard has ranged spells". Dude is steadily hitting into 1k-2k damage ranges with his criticals, and has the classic Kensei instant-kill moves in his skill set. He is at point that he has near 100% shield bash chance passively, and his attack speed is high enough that with boosts on he can't finish attack animations before starting new ones.

In short, he is an angry blender moving through the dungeon. Anything steps in front of him that is less than a miniboss, dies within 0.2-2.5 seconds even if he soloes it at his level. Granted some of this power might be my Cleric who is built to be just ultimate tank-support (As in "I get infinite AC, infinite turns, and infinite health as well as give people total of +10 to hit and damage) but even without me he is able to just walk into a room, smack everything to pieces and then just point out that he lost 15% of his HP, and asks for a heal.

Edit: Also want to point out this player is 100% F2P and is not running with maximum enhancement tomes or stuff like that.

If he is in a party with a well made/played caster... the mobs will already be dead by the time he gets there.

I never said PURE Fighters can't be strong (if played well), just that casters are stronger at higher levels.

[Valtan]

FYI, on the most recent Fridays at Four livecast, Severlin mentioned they are working on tweaking the Kensei tree.

The video is about an hour long and I don't have a timestamp where he talks about it. You'll just have to listen to the whole thing (or most of it) I'm afraid.

I wouldn't trust a single word coming out of Severlin's mouth. I bet the livecast went like this:

Player: Kensei is weak and boring, can you do something about it?
Sev: We are working on tweaking the kensei tree, it will happen soon(R).

The same thing happened regarding reaper in 2019:

Player: As a new player I am not able to enter reaper mode because mostly it is R8s or R10s
Sev: We are working on "leadership" model where the player with highest reaper points will be taken and shared with other players in the party.

[vik1]

My path from fighter to mage in Neverwinter Nights 2->DDO sounds similar to what you're experiencing in DDO. I started out only playing melee types, but I wanted a more active role in combat. Knockdown (or maybe it was trip?) didn't work right and I got bored just switching weapons to break enemy DR. Power attack was usually on and I was content with that for awhile, playing weapon master or barbarian builds. Next, I went str-based paladin, which gave me a few more buttons, some healing, and was a little more fun to play. I wasn't as reliant on a cleric healer which was nice. After that I decided to try cha-based paladin. I had even more fun with that, especially holy sword. Finally I broke down and went full cleric. I tried spell based with divine might/bless/etc. as a melee backup when i ran out of spells. I think I also tried monk which was fun, but i went back to cleric.

Then I moved on to DDO. I immediately decided to try wizard and haven't regretted it. Wizards aren't nearly as weak in the lower levels here as they are in other DnD games, and the self healing from pale master is really awesome. I've dabbled in sorcerer as well but I like wizard better (more variety). I'm not saying that fighters are boring in this game (i haven't played one so i don't know), just that you might find it a natural progression. On the flip side, there are a lot more build options in DDO than Neverwinter Nights, especially with epic destinies, so you might just have to wait for all of those to open up to enjoy fighter again. My advice is just experiment until you find something you enjoy.

[boredGamer]

More special attacks is not necessarily better. Economy of action is a thing. Enemy health totals is a thing. Typically in this game's history rate of attack has outweighed the CD and damage benefit of special attacks by so much that focusing on passive damage increases was not only easier but better.

As far as active abilities go that Fighter(Kensei) has access to:

Trip is a very good button that Fighter can make good use of with access to decent amounts of Str and more access to general + Tac DCs than other Str melees. Stun is in the same boat. If you don't like or need/want to press Trip/Stun...you are playing trivial content where you probably don't need to press any buttons besides W and MB1 anyway.

Sunder actually got modernized and provides useful benefits that scale throughout the game. Additionally, Kensei has Shattering Strike which applies a separate Fortification shred on hit with no save, which also can affect incorporeal targets (Sunder often does not affect ghost-like enemies). Shattering Strike also is a 10 second CD with a 10 second debuff duration or essentially 100% uptime compared to Sunder's 60% uptime (Sunder has a 10 second CD now instead of the older 15 second, which is also cool). A Fighter can remove up to 40% Fortification on a single target starting at lvl 4 if they want, which is overkill but also really good. Both of these effects can also be applied to multiple targets with Strikethrough.

Fighter has the feat total to take both Cleave and Great Cleave if they want. They are the worst cleaves in the game now, but they still do more than nothing, offer more damage than +4 MP except for pure single target, and are at least buttons to press. They can also benefit from Double Strike and attack speed buffs now. Because of their scaling with attack speed I am not sure if this is still true, but cleaves used to also be good any time you had an effect on your character that slowed attack speed because cleaves would be unaffected since they are forced attacks with a (previously, at least) fixed animation speed.

A Good Death is honestly not bad for heroics, especially reaper in heroics. Unfortunately it doesn't scale very well and incentivizes Falchions over GAxes and I think GAxes are very much the meta at endgame for THF Fighter. The CD is also disproportionately long compared to the effect except for late heroics on reaper difficulty, IMO (it is massive overkill ~lvl 12, increasingly weak post ~18).

Deadly Strike is ok in heroics but gains increasing power the higher level you are, as well as for using weapons with higher multipliers (axes). The CD is unbelievably, absurdly, astonishingly, insultingly long. My guess is that their initial logic was that if you made 1 attack every second, then 1 guaranteed crit every 20 seconds would be like having an extra 5% crit chance. Unfortunately we make far more attacks per second than that, and this attack has no additional effect such as +[W] or crit range/multi. If they are "tweaking" Kensei and don't want to add anything to this attack, I would just make the CD 6 seconds. As a point of comparison, a Kensei with an axe using Adrenaline crits on a roll of 2-20, and an autocrit also crits on a roll of 2-20, so comparatively this ability is much less powerful, less efficient, and Adrenaline has 40% of the CD time. Head scratcher.

Opportunity Strike is a bit lame as it is essentially another maintenance buff that requires less thought to use as difficulty of content increases (when you need to do more dmg, just always push this button all of the time) and depending on target count, rate of attack, and melee uptime can effectively have a 100% uptime. Still, +3[W] every 6 seconds in sustained combat is surprisingly not terrible in this game and the +20 MP buff to all attacks for 6 seconds is strong. Despite how annoying and lame this ability is, you cannot say it is weak.

And finally there is Haste Boost. No, Haste Boost is not a special instant attack with a unique animation that will result in the biggest possible single hit damage you can achieve in the game. But for DPS, this is overall one of the best, if not the best, buttons you can press in the game and has been that way since forever. There is a noticeable increase in the feeling of how powerful your character is that I think most people would describe as "fun" when using this ability even if it is not unique or a special attack.

Melee combat in this game for a long time did not support special attacks very well or at all, except for monks. With the original release of Epic Destinies LD had two attacks called Momentum Swing and Lay Waste which became the bread and butter of pretty much every melee build (even people not using LD would often twist one or both). I find their removal from the game to one of the worst changes SSG could have ever made, personally. That being said, overall support of active attacks for non caster/monks is certainly much better than the pre-ED era.

Fighter in particular I would say is a class that is about maximizing the effectiveness of the tools you do have in this game rather than facerolling your keyboard.

It’s funny when someone writes a bunch of words that proves to them something is one way, and it only proves to the other person it’s the other way.

This write up , imo, is only more depressing.

[the_one_dwarfforged]

It’s funny when someone writes a bunch of words that proves to them something is one way, and it only proves to the other person it’s the other way.

This write up , imo, is only more depressing.

Message sent and message received are not always (usually, even) the same thing. Fighter is probably not the class for the OP. Fighter is kind of in a depressing state and I would love if some careful, intelligent help was given to it. That being said, there are buttons to push and it can be fun.

If having something resembling a WoW-style DPS rotation is more important to you, honestly Fighter, especially in epics, does somewhat emulate that. Haste Boost -> (Imp.) Sunder -> Shattering Strike -> Opportunity Attack -> Adrenaline + Boulder's Might -> Deadly Strike -> Opportunity Attack. There will be downtime but that's just how it is, at least there is a combo every 8 seconds. Paladin is the best Str melee if you like pushing buttons.

[magaiti]

If only those buttons mentioned were the only ones to press.

1-2 backup boosts, because you never have enough haste boosts.
Displacement clickies, 10 charges (5 buttons) feels like barely enough
Tenser Scrolls, every minute
Trance ability.
Second Wind, Primal Scream.
Epic Strike. If LD, also Legendary Rally & Action Hero.
Pots (Remove Curse/Disease/Blindness/Poison)
Situational scrolls (Invis, Resto, Raise Dead, Fire Shield, Teleport/Greater Teleport)

Swap items: PLIS, Voice, Jeweled Cloak, social skills, haggle, some peeps go as far as swapping gear for trash/bosses (DC/DPS)

GH scrolls/clickies
Deathward clickies

Jibbers, Estar Key, D12, whatever else.

Mount.

Weapon Swaps (a thrower to pull levers, main veapon to click after using a scroll, an on-swap filigree set, whatever else)

Intimidate, if you care.

Enough to fill 10 hot bars.

[boredGamer]

Message sent and message received are not always (usually, even) the same thing. Fighter is probably not the class for the OP. Fighter is kind of in a depressing state and I would love if some careful, intelligent help was given to it. That being said, there are buttons to push and it can be fun.

If having something resembling a WoW-style DPS rotation is more important to you, honestly Fighter, especially in epics, does somewhat emulate that. Haste Boost -> (Imp.) Sunder -> Shattering Strike -> Opportunity Attack -> Adrenaline + Boulder's Might -> Deadly Strike -> Opportunity Attack. There will be downtime but that's just how it is, at least there is a combo every 8 seconds. Paladin is the best Str melee if you like pushing buttons.

I don't want "a rotation". I want things I can do when certain things are happening.

- DPS, sure
- CC, single target, AOE
- Damage incoming
--- can break this out by different types
- Party member in trouble

I'll give some examples:
- DPS - this is relatively fine, except Adrenaline puts other things on timers
- CC - this is ... sort of? ok? But I want to be able to mix in dire charge, knight's challenge, tactics feats, and not have each of them on 15-20 second timers, some of which wait on other timers (epic strikes)
- damage incoming -
--- sure there are boosts, but this is again 30 sec timer limited
--- sure there is guard up, but this is again epic strike timer limited
- party member - would love more knight's challenge, sure we can throw in falconry bird strikes, type abilities. But either that's locked into falconry or behind epic strike timers

So on my fighter, whenever I want to do various things, I'm locked behind 20 seconds of waiting to do that thing, having to run over to do that thing, in a game where combat is immediate.

On a caster, I can literally do all of those things basically on "instants" (more or less) - and can definitely do all of those actions within a few seconds. But more importantly, I can do them whenever I want to push that button, and they just immediately happen.

So, no, I don't want a "rotation". I want to be able to do things, in combat, when I want to do them, that affect the combat.

[boredGamer]

If only those buttons mentioned were the only ones to press.

1-2 backup boosts, because you never have enough haste boosts.
Displacement clickies, 10 charges (5 buttons) feels like barely enough
Tenser Scrolls, every minute
Trance ability.
Second Wind, Primal Scream.
Epic Strike. If LD, also Legendary Rally & Action Hero.
Pots (Remove Curse/Disease/Blindness/Poison)
Situational scrolls (Invis, Resto, Raise Dead, Fire Shield, Teleport/Greater Teleport)

Swap items: PLIS, Voice, Jeweled Cloak, social skills, haggle, some peeps go as far as swapping gear for trash/bosses (DC/DPS)

GH scrolls/clickies
Deathward clickies

Jibbers, Estar Key, D12, whatever else.

Mount.

Weapon Swaps (a thrower to pull levers, main veapon to click after using a scroll, an on-swap filigree set, whatever else)

Intimidate, if you care.

Enough to fill 10 hot bars.

I mean, come on.

[Arkat]

Enough to fill 10 hot bars.

Only 10??

[Zites]

Only 10??

monk n lock over 10 to counter nerfs and forced birdy play;D

[the_one_dwarfforged]

If only those buttons mentioned were the only ones to press.

...

Enough to fill 10 hot bars.

None of that is specific to Fighter though. All of that existing is why I mentioned economy of action though, the real gameplay loop in DDO is maintaining 400 short duration buffs with no CDs.

I don't want "a rotation". I want things I can do when certain things are happening.

- DPS, sure
- CC, single target, AOE
- Damage incoming
--- can break this out by different types
- Party member in trouble

I'll give some examples:
- DPS - this is relatively fine, except Adrenaline puts other things on timers
- CC - this is ... sort of? ok? But I want to be able to mix in dire charge, knight's challenge, tactics feats, and not have each of them on 15-20 second timers, some of which wait on other timers (epic strikes)
- damage incoming -
--- sure there are boosts, but this is again 30 sec timer limited
--- sure there is guard up, but this is again epic strike timer limited
- party member - would love more knight's challenge, sure we can throw in falconry bird strikes, type abilities. But either that's locked into falconry or behind epic strike timers

So on my fighter, whenever I want to do various things, I'm locked behind 20 seconds of waiting to do that thing, having to run over to do that thing, in a game where combat is immediate.

On a caster, I can literally do all of those things basically on "instants" (more or less) - and can definitely do all of those actions within a few seconds. But more importantly, I can do them whenever I want to push that button, and they just immediately happen.

So, no, I don't want a "rotation". I want to be able to do things, in combat, when I want to do them, that affect the combat.

I agree with this mindset and would love for it to exist more in this game for melees. Unfortunately if you are looking for that in this game I think you will only ever cause yourself misery. The devs have repeatedly shown that either they are quite out of touch with what is genuinely "OP", or that they intentionally want front line melees to be much simpler and generally more helpless compared to other classes. Also seems apparent that aside from Barb, being "tanky" is something they really want you to have a shield for and sacrifice a lot of DPS for in addition to having a lower baseline level of utility and choice of actions.

As much as I hate to say it... it is difficult to balance the juggernaut style of character because if they are just a little too strong they faceroll everything. Not that I think the state of melees being what it is in this game starts from a balance problem, but a misperception or prejudice.

[yfernbottom]

Paladin is the best Str melee if you like pushing buttons.

Completely agree with this. If you want a playstyle that has 2 minute buffs you need to renew constantly and a ton of buttons, Pally has you covered. If that's too simple, go Monk.

I don't think it's a bad thing that there are some classes available for players that want a more straightforward character. If you want a caster that's relatively simple to play, go warlock. If you want a relatively simple melee, go fighter or maybe barb.

If fighter is boring to you, there are a ton of other melee classes to pick from. If every class was as complicated to play as a Monk, we would lose players that enjoy the more straightforward classes.

[Oxarhamar]

Completely agree with this. If you want a playstyle that has 2 minute buffs you need to renew constantly and a ton of buttons, Pally has you covered. If that's too simple, go Monk.

I don't think it's a bad thing that there are some classes available for players that want a more straightforward character. If you want a caster that's relatively simple to play, go warlock. If you want a relatively simple melee, go fighter or maybe barb.

If fighter is boring to you, there are a ton of other melee classes to pick from. If every class was as complicated to play as a Monk, we would lose players that enjoy the more straightforward classes.

Hard agree

Monk was fun but far too much button mashing

I’d personally prefer that classes had options for both busy buttons play style and more passive

[boredGamer]

Completely agree with this. If you want a playstyle that has 2 minute buffs you need to renew constantly and a ton of buttons, Pally has you covered. If that's too simple, go Monk.

I don't think it's a bad thing that there are some classes available for players that want a more straightforward character. If you want a caster that's relatively simple to play, go warlock. If you want a relatively simple melee, go fighter or maybe barb.

If fighter is boring to you, there are a ton of other melee classes to pick from. If every class was as complicated to play as a Monk, we would lose players that enjoy the more straightforward classes.

Even something simple like warlock has ways to deal with things. Evards, instakills, temp hp, etc.

Don't need crazy combos, just need more interesting things.

Counterattack, for example, should be an auto-stun auto-crit on next attack. As is, it's barely worth it unless you're already doing that.

Some of us don't want to punch things as a melee.

[LurkingVeteran]

Completely agree with this. If you want a playstyle that has 2 minute buffs you need to renew constantly and a ton of buttons, Pally has you covered. If that's too simple, go Monk.

I don't think it's a bad thing that there are some classes available for players that want a more straightforward character. If you want a caster that's relatively simple to play, go warlock. If you want a relatively simple melee, go fighter or maybe barb.

If fighter is boring to you, there are a ton of other melee classes to pick from. If every class was as complicated to play as a Monk, we would lose players that enjoy the more straightforward classes.

Monk is actually a really bad example of an active combat design because it just has super clunky rotations that net you like 10% more damage if you focus all your attention on the button mashing. There is very little thought required for that.

What people in this thread are asking for are melee abilities that affect combat in a meaningful way, like counters, dashes, protection moves etc. I think there already is some stuff in there if you go deep in tactics as a THF, but it's quite unrefined (e.g. long CDs) and takes a lot of investment. I think they should have given a dash to all melee classes at L1, and all tank classes should get some kind of intercept move that rushes to an ally and gets aggro, as well as some kind of active defense move that acts as emergency button if heals are delayed. Reapers being immune to melee tactics when a caster has 19 options to CC them is also rather strange.

[Zites]

Completely agree with this. If you want a playstyle that has 2 minute buffs you need to renew constantly and a ton of buttons, Pally has you covered. If that's too simple, go Monk.

Wrong plz keep your advise for casters n range ty.

I don't think it's a bad thing that there are some classes available for players that want a more straightforward character. If you want a caster that's relatively simple to play, go warlock. If you want a relatively simple melee, go fighter or maybe barb.

Wrong again. There are Core abilities, Action Boost, Active Abilities, Battle Trance, Epic Destinies, Reaper Boosts, Constant Weapons and Gear Swaps,
Heal and O-C-H-I-T Buttons ECT.

Core abilities
1.Power Surge
2. One Cut:

Action Boost
1.Haste Boost
2.Sprint Boost or Defense Boost or Melee Power Boost if you know what your doing you will have one of these on your hot bar preferably Sprint.

Active Abilities
1.Reed In The Wind, only the first core works because the team is so good at their job
2. Shattering Strike
3.Opportunity Attack
4.Liquid Courage
5.A Good Death
6.Deadly Strike
7.Group Action Boost

Battle Trance One of these if you know what your doing.
1. Divine Might or Know the Angles or ect.

Epic Destinies
1.Dire Attack or
2.Action Boost: Tactics
3.Legendary Rally
4.Epic Moment Action Hero or Unbridled Fury and The Great Leveler
5.Epic Strike
6.Speed or Strength
7.Primal Scream

Reaper enhancements
1.Reaper's Imbuement
2.Reaper's Deadly Strikes
3.Reaper's Strike

Weapons and Gear Swaps
1.Jewel Cloke or Ion Stone
2.Helm of Unrest
3.Weapon Swaps
4.Weapon Swaps
5.Weapon Swaps
6.Weapon Swaps

Heal and O-C-H-I-T Buttons
1.Wind
2.Bar-Heal
3.You get it right?

This isn't event all of them but lets try a little math what do you say?
18-30 buttons to push at exactly the right time and hope for no lag or kill stealing. Now who really is using the brain dead play style is it not casters and ranged.

If fighter is boring to you, there are a ton of other melee classes to pick from. If every class was as complicated to play as a Monk, we would lose players that enjoy the more straightforward classes.

Monks who don't use 90% of the stuff. LOL, 1-3 finishers, spam jade and spin kicks, then abundant step to next mob what a joke. You guys are wrong again.
The best thing monk is good for if Water or Fire stance and you need only one level for that.

This is you best option for dps 18Kensei/1Fav,1Monk. Syn mixes warlock I believe in with 18 kensei but I don't care enough to try to work it out.

Pure Barbarian, Ranger, Rouge or EK Mixing with Fav, ect.

[boredGamer]

Wrong plz keep your advise for casters n range ty.

This has all already been covered:

DPS Increase: - 1.Power Surge 2. One Cut, 2. Shattering Strike 3.Opportunity Attack 5.A Good Death 6.Deadly Strike, 6.Speed or Strength, 7.Primal Scream

Boosts behind 30 second timers - which mostly people use for DPS increase, occasionally sprint increase, Action Boost: Tactics - have fun waiting if you need one of them after you boosted a different one.

Battle Trance/KTA/DM (and dc increase)
Just a tax if you don't put them in your build, but on their own, they don't *do* things. It's like boosting DC's for a caster and then casting once every 20 seconds. Who cares.

Liquid Courage
Reed In The Wind
These actually are decent in that they actual *do something* besides DPS. Liquid courage is somewhat annoying though in that you can't combine it in high reapers really with any healing you'll be doing. And if someone is healing you, it probably doesn't matter.

1.Dire Attack, 5.Epic Strike
Epic strikes which all lock themselves into cooldowns

3.Legendary Rally, 4.Epic Moment Action Hero or Unbridled Fury and The Great Leveler
Yeah cool, ever destiny has these, just wait 5 more minutes

2.Reaper's Deadly Strikes, 3.Reaper's Strike
Cool more boosts with 30 sec delays

Weapons and Gear Swaps
Oh man, nothing says good gameplay like GEAR swaps with built in delays.

Heal and O-C-H-I-T Buttons
1.Wind - what an option.
2.Bar-Heal
Mmm, self heal only that doesn't scale into reaper. It has made fighter much more enjoyable to play, y'know, giving them abilities outside of DPS increases.

Wrong plz keep your advise for casters n range ty.
This isn't event all of them but lets try a little math what do you say?
18-30 buttons to push at exactly the right time and hope for no lag or kill stealing. Now who really is using the brain dead play style is it not casters and range[/I][/B]d.

Anyone with basic competence will just AHK all the like buttons together, so you have 4 or 5 "types" of abilities. Again, none of them really that interesting. Having *more* buttons is not what anyone is discussing. Sure, you could put all your skill buttons on there also and mash away.

"Hope for no lag or kill stealing" - really, really sounds fun. You're not pushing buttons at "exactly the right time" when they have 30sec to 5 minute cooldowns. Unless you just mean boosting up for a boss fight, really engaging.

[yfernbottom]

Wrong plz keep your advise for casters n range ty.





Wrong again. There are Core abilities, Action Boost, Active Abilities, Battle Trance, Epic Destinies, Reaper Boosts, Constant Weapons and Gear Swaps,
Heal and O-C-H-I-T Buttons ECT.

Core abilities
1.Power Surge
2. One Cut:

Action Boost
1.Haste Boost
2.Sprint Boost or Defense Boost or Melee Power Boost if you know what your doing you will have one of these on your hot bar preferably Sprint.

Active Abilities
1.Reed In The Wind, only the first core works because the team is so good at their job
2. Shattering Strike
3.Opportunity Attack
4.Liquid Courage
5.A Good Death
6.Deadly Strike
7.Group Action Boost

Battle Trance One of these if you know what your doing.
1. Divine Might or Know the Angles or ect.

Epic Destinies
1.Dire Attack or
2.Action Boost: Tactics
3.Legendary Rally
4.Epic Moment Action Hero or Unbridled Fury and The Great Leveler
5.Epic Strike
6.Speed or Strength
7.Primal Scream

Reaper enhancements
1.Reaper's Imbuement
2.Reaper's Deadly Strikes
3.Reaper's Strike

Weapons and Gear Swaps
1.Jewel Cloke or Ion Stone
2.Helm of Unrest
3.Weapon Swaps
4.Weapon Swaps
5.Weapon Swaps
6.Weapon Swaps

Heal and O-C-H-I-T Buttons
1.Wind
2.Bar-Heal
3.You get it right?

This isn't event all of them but lets try a little math what do you say?
18-30 buttons to push at exactly the right time and hope for no lag or kill stealing. Now who really is using the brain dead play style is it not casters and ranged.



Monks who don't use 90% of the stuff. LOL, 1-3 finishers, spam jade and spin kicks, then abundant step to next mob what a joke. You guys are wrong again.
The best thing monk is good for if Water or Fire stance and you need only one level for that.

This is you best option for dps 18Kensei/1Fav,1Monk. Syn mixes warlock I believe in with 18 kensei but I don't care enough to try to work it out.

Pure Barbarian, Ranger, Rouge or EK Mixing with Fav, ect.

If you play any class at a high level, it will not be all that straightforward in this game ... as this long oddly angry post illustrates.

However, in my experience the bare minimum number of abilities you need to even be competent tends to involve more complex rotations on a Monk of Pally than a Fighter or Barb. YMMV of course . . .

[Zites]

This has all already been covered:

DPS Increase: - 1.Power Surge 2. One Cut, 2. Shattering Strike 3.Opportunity Attack 5.A Good Death 6.Deadly Strike, 6.Speed or Strength, 7.Primal Scream

Boosts behind 30 second timers - which mostly people use for DPS increase, occasionally sprint increase, Action Boost: Tactics - have fun waiting if you need one of them after you boosted a different one.

Battle Trance/KTA/DM (and dc increase)
Just a tax if you don't put them in your build, but on their own, they don't *do* things. It's like boosting DC's for a caster and then casting once every 20 seconds. Who cares.

Liquid Courage
Reed In The Wind
These actually are decent in that they actual *do something* besides DPS. Liquid courage is somewhat annoying though in that you can't combine it in high reapers really with any healing you'll be doing. And if someone is healing you, it probably doesn't matter.

1.Dire Attack, 5.Epic Strike
Epic strikes which all lock themselves into cooldowns

3.Legendary Rally, 4.Epic Moment Action Hero or Unbridled Fury and The Great Leveler
Yeah cool, ever destiny has these, just wait 5 more minutes

2.Reaper's Deadly Strikes, 3.Reaper's Strike
Cool more boosts with 30 sec delays

Weapons and Gear Swaps
Oh man, nothing says good gameplay like GEAR swaps with built in delays.

Heal and O-C-H-I-T Buttons
1.Wind - what an option.
2.Bar-Heal
Mmm, self heal only that doesn't scale into reaper. It has made fighter much more enjoyable to play, y'know, giving them abilities outside of DPS increases.



Anyone with basic competence will just AHK all the like buttons together, so you have 4 or 5 "types" of abilities. Again, none of them really that interesting. Having *more* buttons is not what anyone is discussing. Sure, you could put all your skill buttons on there also and mash away.

"Hope for no lag or kill stealing" - really, really sounds fun. You're not pushing buttons at "exactly the right time" when they have 30sec to 5 minute cooldowns. Unless you just mean boosting up for a boss fight, really engaging.

Yea its not fun, it what happens when those who don't have real world physically prowess design Melee, they add barriers, stumbling blocks and hoops to jump through. Expositing their inherent bias for real world physically prowess, as if one can not have both Brains and Brawn in the real world.

This is also why they do casters so well, it suites them.

As to what is and what is not interesting, I argued they would be plenty Interesting
if these abilities worked and couldn't be derailed by Casters/Ranged Dominance, coupled with the undo and overwhelming odds stacked against Melee in R5-10.

[Zites]

However, in my experience the bare minimum number of abilities you need to even be competent tends to involve more complex rotations on a Monk of Pally than a Fighter or Barb. YMMV of course . . .

You experience does not jive, with Fighter.

If you play any class at a high level, it will not be all that straightforward in this game ... as this long oddly angry post illustrates

Its a break down for those who crave REDMEAT over soy lattes