16+ Imbue Dice 18Wiz/2Rogue Inqusitor Elf AA

[onikage]

So with the new imbue system I've been reading about, I was looking into how the dice stack and saw this as a possibility
Going 2 Levels of Rogue gives 3 with Assassin Tier 2 for 8 points
Inquisitor Enhancement gives 2 with 11 Points
Elf Arcane Archer Enhancement gives 4 with 12 Points (Plus the initial 14 from Elf Tree to unlock)
(45 Total Enhancement points so far for 9 Imbue Dice)
Going 18 Levels of Wiz as EK gives 7 with 5 Cores (31 Points) which brings us to 76 Points spent and 16 Imbue Dice.

Doing this and using the EK's Imbue Toggle since it scales with Spellpower, would be best I'm assuming since you'll get spellpower more easily than Ranged?

Also would it be better to do this with double crossbows Inquisitor or actual arrows with a bow?

[SocratesBastardSon]

Doing this and using the EK's Imbue Toggle since it scales with Spellpower, would be best I'm assuming since you'll get spellpower more easily than Ranged?

Also would it be better to do this with double crossbows Inquisitor or actual arrows with a bow?

Yes, Spellpower is far easier to acquire than Ranged or Melee Power, even for non-spellcaster builds. Both AA and EK give a generous amount of USP to supplement their imbue dice. You can get a lot of imbue dice from Inq, but it does not offer much Spellpower (only t4 Arcane Inquisition). I did a similar build to what you are describing and chose bow using AA and EK over Inq for that reason (Elf-AA, Wiz 18/Ro 2). Very effective for leveling and even raiding. Ranger DWS/Horizon Walker builds do much better single target damage, but especially once I got IPS mine was terrific for trash clearing and CC.

[LavidDynch]

Yes, Spellpower is far easier to acquire than Ranged or Melee Power, even for non-spellcaster builds. Both AA and EK give a generous amount of USP to supplement their imbue dice. You can get a lot of imbue dice from Inq, but it does not offer much Spellpower (only t4 Arcane Inquisition). I did a similar build to what you are describing and chose bow using AA and EK over Inq for that reason (Elf-AA, Wiz 18/Ro 2). Very effective for leveling and even raiding. Ranger DWS/Horizon Walker builds do much better single target damage, but especially once I got IPS mine was terrific for trash clearing and CC.

Ye and also Inq toggle is 1d10 scaling 200% vs EK´s 1d8, 100%. if your pushing RP on an inq you can do 400-450 RP. so you would need a bit over 1k SP to even be on par with non-SP builds-- which is probably not an easy feat when nothing gives you inherit SP bonuses. Generally speaking...

[Fisto_Mk_I]

Ye and also Inq toggle is 1d10 scaling 200% vs EK´s 1d8, 100%. if your pushing RP on an inq you can do 400-450 RP. so you would need a bit over 1k SP to even be on par with non-SP builds-- which is probably not an easy feat when nothing gives you inherit SP bonuses. Generally speaking...

You can do such amount only with full builded AF, so it's applicable only to boss fight. SP build have SP permanent. AF need time to build, Wellspring of Power is instant buff. Generally speaking...

[SocratesBastardSon]

You can do such amount only with full builded AF, so it's applicable only to boss fight. SP build have SP permanent. AF need time to build, Wellspring of Power is instant buff. Generally speaking...

No doubt Inquisitive is outstanding, but I wanted to maximize my SP-based damage. Besides, the Inq toggle is Ranged Power, EK is Spell Power.

I had 17 imbue dice and 600 Spellpower at level 20, 25 imbue dice and 1000 Spellpower at 30, not counting filigrees or set bonus from, e.g., Profane Experiment. Shiradi was buggy at the time so I was using Primal Mantle. If I remember my RP was a bit over 80 @ 20 and 125 @ 30 (not counting bursts from Action Boosts and Archer's Focus). Inquisitive gets access to more RP, of course, but 1200 Spell Power (600 x 100%) and 2000 with 18+ and 26+ imbue dice (dice and toggle, + I had more from equipment) at 20 and 30 respectively was decent. I remember every arrow doing over 3k damage without crits or boosts.

I'm too tired to do the math (way too many variables), but I am going to guess that this is roughly competitive with an Inq build that splits up damage between RP @ 200% and lower SP from skipping AA (I put 41 APs into AA). The 7d10 for Inq vs. 8d8 for AA looks like Inq has the advantage, but again you have to factor in AA's higher SP.

All of that said, Inq has a big advantage over Efl-AA: Elf has slower core access (level 25 for capstone!) which is really irritating, a silly restriction that Inq does not have to put up with.
A second advantage to Inq is crits. Imbues, unless it's changed, don't crit, only the base physical damage. RP synergizes with crits, but SP does not. Doubleshot, on the other hand, is what an AA build lives and dies on, something Inq does not get much of, and mine was 111 @ 30, 141 with Reaper Action Boost.

Note that this was not a fully tweaked build with the best gear (for example, I was using Pinion). I mostly wanted to try it out, thinking that it should be solid. It was. Giving it my full attention could easily improve these numbers even more.

[onikage]

Yes, Spellpower is far easier to acquire than Ranged or Melee Power, even for non-spellcaster builds. Both AA and EK give a generous amount of USP to supplement their imbue dice. You can get a lot of imbue dice from Inq, but it does not offer much Spellpower (only t4 Arcane Inquisition). I did a similar build to what you are describing and chose bow using AA and EK over Inq for that reason (Elf-AA, Wiz 18/Ro 2). Very effective for leveling and even raiding. Ranger DWS/Horizon Walker builds do much better single target damage, but especially once I got IPS mine was terrific for trash clearing and CC.

Sorry but whats IPS? Also for the 2x Hand Crossbow is it double imbues since its two attacks?

[Jeromio]

Sorry but whats IPS? Also for the 2x Hand Crossbow is it double imbues since its two attacks?

IPS = Improved Precis Shot feat.

Each bolt does the imbue damage, but if going with crossbows instead of bow & arrow, it might be worth looking into a full inquis build... it can get up to 42 imbue dice with 900-1k SP and extra 6*d77 from Shiradi... if you have the racial action points to build it (a lighter version (if short on racial action points) still gets 35+ imbue dice).

[Saekee]

A second advantage to Inq is crits. Imbues, unless it's changed, don't crit,

The paladin sacred fist imbue has an awesome crit but has nothing to do with this thread

[ccd1977]

IPS = Improved Precis Shot feat.

Each bolt does the imbue damage, but if going with crossbows instead of bow & arrow, it might be worth looking into a full inquis build... it can get up to 42 imbue dice with 900-1k SP and extra 6*d77 from Shiradi... if you have the racial action points to build it (a lighter version (if short on racial action points) still gets 35+ imbue dice).

Is this build anywhere posted on the forum? I would be interested in the "lighter" version.

[magaiti]

Vile Chemist Inquisitive, 18 alchemist / 2 rogue (or 2 artificer), INT based

Rogue gets +3 imbue dice, arti gets runearm and +3 NHB uses

Inquisitive: 41
Vile Chemist: 21 - 4 cores for full bab, 8% doubleshot, some to-hit/damage bonuses
Assassin / Battle Engineer: 11 (3 imbue dice + 2 sneak dice / +3 boosts)
Harper Agent: 8 (KtA)

Alchemist also gets Greater Elemental Weapons for +2 imbue dice

[Jeromio]

Is this build anywhere posted on the forum? I would be interested in the "lighter" version.

I'll send a PM to you because we're not allowed to link to it.

[unbongwah]

Each bolt does the imbue damage, but if going with crossbows instead of bow & arrow, it might be worth looking into a full inquis build... it can get up to 42 imbue dice with 900-1k SP and extra 6*d77 from Shiradi... if you have the racial action points to build it (a lighter version (if short on racial action points) still gets 35+ imbue dice).

Is this build anywhere posted on the forum? I would be interested in the "lighter" version.

Trying to reverse-engineer this on elf or half-elf Alchemist 18 / rogue 2:

• 41 Inquisitive (+7 Imbue dice, capstone, Tier-5s)
• 14 racial to unlock AA tree
• 22 Arcane Archer for +6 Imbue dice (AA imbues only work with arrows, but AFAIK the bonus dice apply to all Imbues)
• 8 Assassin for +3 Imbue dice
• 6 Vile Chemist for +5 Imbue dice and to unlock Poisoned Coating
• 6 Harper for Know the Angles

97 APs total for +21 Imbue dice; if you "only" have 87 APs, drop AA to 12 and you have +19 Imbue dice instead. INT to damage from Battalion Brew. Eldritch Knight version would have to reduce AA investment to put 12 APs into Harper for INT to damage and would have Spellsword (elemental) imbues instead of Poison.

The "lite" version probably uses drow for its racial dice bonus:

• 41 Inquisitive (+7 Imbue dice, capstone, Tier-5s)
• 16 racial for +2 Imbue dice
• 11 Assassin for +3 Imbue dice and Ranged Power Boost
• 6 Vile Chemist for +5 Imbue dice
• 6 Harper for Know the Angles

Which is 80 APs so it's doable on even a first-lifer, for +17 Imbue dice. The wizard 18 / rogue 2 version would be something like: 41 Inquisitive / 12 Harper / 11 drow / 8 Assassin / 6 Eldritch Knight: +16 Dice for 78 APs.

Artificer 2 splash instead of rogue 2 gives up Evasion and +3 Imbue dice from Assassin; gains Runearms, free Rapid Reload and medium armor proficiency, and access to e.g. Extra Action Boost enhancements.

[LavidDynch]

You can do such amount only with full builded AF, so it's applicable only to boss fight. SP build have SP permanent. AF need time to build, Wellspring of Power is instant buff. Generally speaking...

Contradicting yourself in your own post. WoP got a 3 min CD/30s duration (didn´t it also have a very very cringy long winded animation?), so it´s hardly permanent. btw Archer Focus takes 2 seconds to max out, not an issue in boss fights. Just to put things in context, since I see alot of selected slices of theory but no actually complete builds, in Carpones U53 Arti biuld, he had 869 magnetism SP, and he was cutting a bit to reach that.

(Weapon) + XXX
xx RP/MP
xx SA
xx SP (if EK you will need to max 2!)
xx DS
xx Imb dice.
xx bonus helpless dmg
xx fort by pass
x, y, z Debuffs

[Fisto_Mk_I]

Contradicting yourself in your own post.

Only in your own eyes, lol.

WoP got a 3 min CD/30s duration (didn´t it also have a very very cringy long winded animation?), so it´s hardly permanent.

Firstly, i never say WoP is permanent, it's your pure insinuation. All other SP exclude WoP (and Arcane Warrior Epic Destiny Feat possible) is permanent.
Secondary, if build go to DI for nice close abilities like dragon breath, you can take Pull from the Wellspring too, it's double active time. And no, i never see so weird thing about animation.

btw Archer Focus takes 2 seconds to max out, not an issue in boss fights.

Firstly, it's take much more time to build 25 stack AF, clearly not 2 s, secondary - you say exactly i say too: applicable only to boss fight, hard applicable to other fight, clearly not applicable to solo. Exclude boss fight your RP never be 400-450, more likely 300-350. Other hand, if you have 1000 SP - you always have 1000 SP + nice 150 WoP boost.

Just to put things in context, since I see alot of selected slices of theory but no actually complete builds, in Carpones U53 Arti biuld, he had 869 magnetism SP, and he was cutting a bit to reach that.

Are you demanding something from me that you never do yourself? Seriously? Start with yourself!

Did you mention Carpone? That's good, let's compare his examples. Here's an example of one from his best ranged DD.
It is easy to make sure that here the RP, including AF, is only 369, if you exclude AF (because it's applicable only to boss fight, and we all well know that all Carpone builds is high-end raid builds for maximizing boss DPS) - 244.
244x2<869, mmm? And even with AF it still 369x2<869. So?