I hated reaper

[donblas]

Yes Reapers are appropriate for every quest

Ok Reapers are everywhere in Eberron. They are a plague. Odd that none of the NPCs ever mention them. It breaks immersion for me but of course feel free to justify whatever you like.

There are already tougher creatures called Champions

By "tougher creatures" I obviously meant "tougher than those found in non-reaper quests", and of a type appropriate to that quest, not just lazily slapping in the same ones (reapers) in every bloody quest. But maybe my language was too convoluted.

Guard Beasts somehow different from Reapers in the immersion department

Yes, I agree. Big guard beasts that are appropriate to the story of the quest are of course different in the immersion department from slapping the same ones (reapers) in every bloody quest. Thank you!

Piking isn’t a requirement just because “babysitting” been suggested by the OP though it’s certainly an option it’s not necessary

Yes the OP suggested that babysitting was necessary. I can see that both you and I disagree with him - low reapers can be soloed easily with no babysitting or piking required. All that is required is the mindset to be willing to fight the same boring reapers over and over and over again, whatever the quest story might be about. Unlike you, I am lacking that kind of mindset. Possibly my loss.

Reaper isn’t a requirement for anyone it’s a difficultly setting you can select a lower one YW

Why the "YW"? I pointed this out explicitly myself in the post you are quoting, so your comment repeating my own words was hardly stunning news to me!

But of course, I can select elite, and it has been pointed out that for some this is a harder difficulty setting than low reaper. Maybe I like the challenge!

[Oxarhamar]

Ok Reapers are everywhere in Eberron. They are a plague. Odd that none of the NPCs ever mention them. It breaks immersion for me but of course feel free to justify whatever you like.



By "tougher creatures" I obviously meant "tougher than those found in non-reaper quests", and of a type appropriate to that quest, not just lazily slapping in the same ones (reapers) in every bloody quest. But maybe my language was too convoluted.



Yes, I agree. Big guard beasts that are appropriate to the story of the quest are of course different in the immersion department from slapping the same ones (reapers) in every bloody quest. Thank you!



Yes the OP suggested that babysitting was necessary. I can see that both you and I disagree with him - low reapers can be soloed easily with no babysitting or piking required. All that is required is the mindset to be willing to fight the same boring reapers over and over and over again, whatever the quest story might be about. Unlike you, I am lacking that kind of mindset. Possibly my loss.




Why the "YW"? I pointed this out explicitly myself in the post you are quoting, so your comment repeating my own words was hardly stunning news to me!

But of course, I can select elite, and it has been pointed out that for some this is a harder difficulty setting than low reaper. Maybe I like the challenge!

You don’t have to play Reaper the immersion is there even if you don’t like it it’s a difficultly setting you can choose lower

I don’t see any difference that facing any of the other monsters in the game repeatedly you haven’t been bored of that Reapers just add a little spice

YW

[C-Dog]

Odd that none of the NPCs ever mention them. It breaks immersion for me...

First, the first rule of Reaper difficulty is that you never mention reapers.

Second, it's a poorly kept secret that NPC's are generally weaker than Player Characters, and thus every NPC that's actually met one has died, and so no reports made it back. So no wonder there are none to talk about it.

[Raithe]

The real goal of Reaper was (obviously in hindsight) to create yet another grind that could be scaled up when needed to keep the grind wheel spinning.

I have a couple of comments for this thread, then I'll leave it be:

1) The quote above is the truth. The problem with Reaper is in it's design, not it's "difficulty." I would take the time to find a Youtube video that shows just how easy it is to thwart the difficulty of Reaper mode by simply not engaging with the factors that supposedly make it difficult, but I really don't care enough. The point, though, of ahpook's observation and mine is not about whether some people like Reaper or not, it's about whether it was good for SSG's bottom line. Note that SSG has the answer to that - and they are trying to make adjustments to Reaper mode as we speak.

2) It is important to understand that those who play these types of games are typically divided up into roleplayer, explorer, powergamer, and strategizer categories. We are not all the same playerbase in reality. It's funny to see people arguing with each other that really have nothing in common with regards to what they expect out of the game. I would suggest it's mostly a waste of time to do that.

[captain1z]

I did. I thought it was far too difficult for solo play and divided an already small and divided gaming population.
But when I felt that way I was running by myself 99% of the time. My guild had effectively fallen apart and my running partner lost her spouse to a deadly illness. So it was just me.
Then I packed up and moved to a new server, joined an active guild, got to know some new folks and before you know it, I was doing reaper 10 and consistently proving to be useful.

I learned that having no reaper points definitely makes reaper far more difficult, but once you get a couple dozen points reaper 1-2 becomes easier than elite. I also enjoyed having someone to game with again. It's been years.
There's also the matter of building and gearing a toon that can thrive in reaper runs. I learned how to be better and more discerning at that. I also enjoyed going back to D&D basics where there's little zerging and each of us depend on the other. Sure, I can CC and instakill. I can DPS. But missing one trap can kill me. So we depend on our trapper. On our healer. On our tank. Etc.

I guess I'm giving a testimony to say "give it a chance". Find a group willing to babysit you a little while while you learn the ins and outs. Gain some reaper points and enjoy a newer experience.
Nowadays I'm kind of an elitist. I just can't justify running under R4-6 on my main. If I do, I end up being that zerger so many dislike. Either that or I have to force myself to go at a slower pace and not instantly kill everything in sight just so others can participate.
It doesn't take long to get up to that level. A year ago I hated reaper. The posting record is there. Now I'm one shotting R10 monsters with ease.
Don't let frustration prevent you from growth. All it takes is time and tutoring.

Im of the opposite opinion.

I like the random reapers popping up and I heard there were hounds that did that on the hardcore server. I would love that on the normal servers, in normal content. Just throw some randomization in there.

However,

Im not crazy about reaper. Maybe its because I wasn't an early adopter, maybe Im just not an elite player.
Ive joined groups advertising "lets say Killing Time" for instance and you expect to play hard or elite and the leader jumps in on R6 without warning.

Needless to say, we wiped.

I dont mind the damage so much, its really the nerf to healing thats annoying.
Also, I run into a lot of "lets just say" less than kind people who make comments if your spell power is below 1000 or your melee damage is less than 5000 per hit.

Im not gonna assume these people dont run those numbers but I do take exception to them assuming everyone else absolutely must invest the same amount of time in this game as them.

So I enjoy myself in the Hard to R2 range and on rare occasions an R4 with a group that has decided to do so as a group........not SURPRISE, its R6 everybody.

Just 2 cents from a semi-casual player.

[captain1z]

I have a couple of comments for this thread, then I'll leave it be:

1) The quote above is the truth. The problem with Reaper is in it's design, not it's "difficulty." I would take the time to find a Youtube video that shows just how easy it is to thwart the difficulty of Reaper mode by simply not engaging with the factors that supposedly make it difficult, but I really don't care enough. The point, though, of ahpook's observation and mine is not about whether some people like Reaper or not, it's about whether it was good for SSG's bottom line. Note that SSG has the answer to that - and they are trying to make adjustments to Reaper mode as we speak.

2) It is important to understand that those who play these types of games are typically divided up into roleplayer, explorer, powergamer, and strategizer categories. We are not all the same playerbase in reality. It's funny to see people arguing with each other that really have nothing in common with regards to what they expect out of the game. I would suggest it's mostly a waste of time to do that.

Very insightful comment.
We are all here looking for different things.
I couldn't agree more.

[thegreatcthulhu]

The "12-point rule" is primarily for casters, for melee it's more like 30~40 Reaper points.

And yes I know I know, but like I said there is someone or some people on SSG's Dev team that has something against melee. It's whatever.

Can agree. I think it also helps melee a lot if they prioritize Epic Past Lives over Heroic/Racial. But other that... this game definitely fell into the same trap that a lot of others have when it comes to "casters". Unfortunately I think the trap was already sprung back in the Turbine days and it hasn't gotten out.

[Oxarhamar]

Yeah.. I was taking a shot at those who say that reaper is easier than elite.

The fact is, Elite is easier unless you have a hood amount of reaper points and you are running r1. Other then that, Elite is easier.

My stance is that 12-24 reaper points do not really give such a considerable amount of extra power. Better items alone will give someone more power than 24 reaper points.

even with a few point Reaper gets easier over time as you learn to play reaper

Putting points in defence tree makes a big difference between elite & Reaper even with only few

[noinfo]

THIS is the 2nd biggest problem with reaper. The first being the idiotic reaper enhancement system. I've said it before and I'll say it as many times as I see posts like this about reaper. You DON'T REWARD A DIFFICULTY SETTING WITH MORE POWER. The people responsible for implementing that debacle have ZERO clue on how to challenge a player.

That is exactly what should be rewarded, playing on the hardest difficulty should actually have rewards. Playing on a treadmill over and over again with no challenge but to run from 1 quest to another and consume a heart of wood and repeat should give you nothing, and yet it does.

[ahpook]

That is exactly what should be rewarded, playing on the hardest difficulty should actually have rewards. Playing on a treadmill over and over again with no challenge but to run from 1 quest to another and consume a heart of wood and repeat should give you nothing, and yet it does.

That sounds good but in relatively short time running Reaper is the exact same treadmill that you are complaining about. If you really want what you are describing then the TR process should be gated to higher difficulty and you can only Reincarnate by running at higher difficulty. But that aint gonna happen.

[hit_fido]

It doesn't take long to get up to that level. A year ago I hated reaper. The posting record is there. Now I'm one shotting R10 monsters with ease.
Don't let frustration prevent you from growth. All it takes is time and tutoring.

Thumbs up to the OP for an upbeat post. There are a lot of options for how to play DDO, and not all of them are the right choice for every player at any given moment. but they're there to try if you want. You can run a permadeath mode a couple times a year, you can focus on one uber character, you can build an army of alts to choose from whenever you play, you can run much harder or much easier difficulty settings. Now there are not only enough quests that you needn't run the same ones over and over but you can skip so many of them you don't like and still level your virtual action figures up just fine.

[Marshal_Lannes]

I believe many of us told you this years ago. In any event, glad you are enjoying it now. High reaper group play where everyone is contributing is one of the more rewarding aspects of group play within DDO. I do hope this isn't torpedoed by a future update completing changing something that doesn't need to be changed.

[Bunker]

even with a few point Reaper gets easier over time as you learn to play reaper

Putting points in defence tree makes a big difference between elite & Reaper even with only few

Your first statement can also be said regarding Elite.

"Elite gets easier over time as you learn to play Elite:

Yes, I can agree that any extra reaper points is an increase in power and character strength/defense.

The general statement that "reaper is easier than elite" just is not completely accurate. I think most players that have only run reaper for a long time forget how easy N/H/E actually is to complete.

[Tyrande]

I do not hate nor love reaper.

For one thing reaper has created many fun hours for my good characters; mainly casters and ranged; I would say.

As for the drawbacks, it caused divisions within the gaming community. For example, we had a raid leader that was in our guild. He said our raid members sucked because we had too many first lifers and make him not able to do R1 raids. First lifers can do R1 raids, if they have enough reaper points. There is the division. Many first lifers probably don't run anything above Elite or R1 during normal questing and that would cause the squish-iness in raids like Legendary Vison of Destruction on Reaper 1 as the Orthons hit very hard. He has 74 reaper points on one of his raiding tanks. He cannot expect everyone to be as tanky... without that same number of points or in shadowdancer meld.

The solution would be to remove reaper all together with some compensation and adjust monsters downwards or
use the leader share points way of proceeding with predefined reaper paths for everyone, and to reduce lag.

[Oxarhamar]

Your first statement can also be said regarding Elite.

"Elite gets easier over time as you learn to play Elite:

Yes, I can agree that any extra reaper points is an increase in power and character strength/defense.

The general statement that "reaper is easier than elite" just is not completely accurate. I think most players that have only run reaper for a long time forget how easy N/H/E actually is to complete.

Oh course running elite will help learn to run elite however running reaper gradually grants more power power than Is removed if you run elite

For instance saves increases can find evading traps on reaper easily compared to elite

[Handsome_Potato_86]

I still do... (hate it)
I recently tried to level up what was basically just
a storage / low lv. gear farming character...
First life, not really any points, and no decent gear.
So i didn't really feel comfortable in reapers.
Heck, even elite was kinda iffy at times.
Sure, i guess you COULD argue that if i had just
gone into R1+ i would have gotten some points.
Well, i dunno. 1st life, i need so little XP, and
even on elite the amount of XP is plenty.
meaning i'd visit very few dungeons in total.
So that would ultimately grant me what, like
3, maybe 4 points? Hardly noticable, imo.
And for (named) gear from chests, reaper
is only one % extra chance per skull.

However most people didn't see it that way.
Even when i specifically put it in my LFMs,
i'd still get /tells, asking me if i didn't wanna
do the quests i wanted to run on R1+ instead.
I even remember one person, who at first joined
completely normal, seemed friendly and all,
but then went "Don't you wanna do Reaper? No?
Okay, understandable - have a nice day!"
I was like, ...what?

It's just my personal preference, bit of a balance
between effort, difficulty, and whatever i can get
out of the whole experience. I just don't like
spending 90% of the time in someone's inventory.

So uhh... Yeah. Kinda soured my whole experience
with Reaper difficulty even more than it already was.