Should I have survived this quest Soloing?

[Ddealti]

Just got killed in Tower of Frost (Lvl 14), Heroic Hard. End fight is a Red Named Frost giant and several more Frost giants.

I am a 1st life, Level 17 (15 Rogue) 390HP, 53 AC and am averaging (when I add up weapon's numbers) around 80 HP damage (although I see numbers nearing 200 sometimes) with my main hand, and 60% chance of another 60 HP with my off hand, (again often seeing numbers around 120). When boosted I have 65 Melee Power.

In the end fight, I made it through the big boss, and a couple more giants, but the last few ended me.

I get the feeling that I should have been able to solo that. Correct?



I hope I am not a pest with all of these questions, but who else do I ask?

Thanks in advance.

[rabidfox]

Tower of Frost can get wicked. At that level, using a strong healing hire like Larafay can make a big difference.

[Seph1roth5]

Rogue is a bit hard to solo because a big chunk of your damage comes from sneak attacks. And while there are enhancements/tricks to make enemies sneak attackable, it's not as effective as just having someone else charge in first.

[Bunker]

Just got killed in Tower of Frost (Lvl 14), Heroic Hard. End fight is a Red Named Frost giant and several more Frost giants.

I am a 1st life, Level 17 (15 Rogue) 390HP, 53 AC and am averaging (when I add up weapon's numbers) around 80 HP damage (although I see numbers nearing 200 sometimes) with my main hand, and 60% chance of another 60 HP with my off hand, (again often seeing numbers around 120). When boosted I have 65 Melee Power.

In the end fight, I made it through the big boss, and a couple more giants, but the last few ended me.

I get the feeling that I should have been able to solo that. Correct?



I hope I am not a pest with all of these questions, but who else do I ask?

Thanks in advance.

This might be too after the fact but......

Any time you die, unless you know the exact reason right away, use the data that is available.

Take a minute and look at your combat log, and perhaps you can better improve your defenses going forward.

IE. If you were getting struck with major cold damage, check to see what your cold resistance is, and see if you can improve on that with your character.
or
Maybe you were critically hit a lot, taking large amounts of damage. Check and see what your fortification is currently at. Or what your other damage mitigation is at.

These are just 2 small examples. Respectfully, Hitpoints and AC are just 2 stats, and there are many layers to character building that will increase your defense as well as offense.

My other answer is: Yes, you should be able to solo this quest at some point, so get back in there! Good luck

[Scrag]

80 hp whacks, even without sneak dice, seems pretty low at your level.

Have you looked at things that can improve your damage, like int or dex to damage (if you arent already getting dex to damage)? What do your enhancements look like, are they propping up your damage? Are you trying to balance out your stats across multiple, or investing in one core stat? Are you getting any imbues? What kind of (or what, actually) are you swinging in combat? Are you using ranged attacks primarily? These are the good stuff to know!

[Enoach]

I does appear you did solo most of it.

Question:
Where you using a hireling? Or relying on self/resource healing?
Did you consider retreating back down the stairs to 'catch your breath'?
Did you get hit with a big damage number? such as critical? Or an instant death effect? Or failed save?

I agree with another poster - first figure out what happened. Figure out if the reason it happened was, Not prepared or not a wise decision? then you can figure out how to avoid that or correct it.

[AlcoArgo]

Just got killed in Tower of Frost (Lvl 14), Heroic Hard. End fight is a Red Named Frost giant and several more Frost giants.

I am a 1st life, Level 17 (15 Rogue) 390HP, 53 AC and am averaging (when I add up weapon's numbers) around 80 HP damage (although I see numbers nearing 200 sometimes) with my main hand, and 60% chance of another 60 HP with my off hand, (again often seeing numbers around 120). When boosted I have 65 Melee Power.

Short answer yes, you should be able to solo with a few adjustments.

More info is needed, though. What are your other 2 levels? What weapons are you using? What is your playstyle? Did you build feats, enhancements and gear towards that playstyle? What is your self-healing like?

Without (at least) that the only advice possible are generalities.

[Ddealti]

Short answer yes, you should be able to solo with a few adjustments.

More info is needed, though. What are your other 2 levels? What weapons are you using? What is your playstyle? Did you build feats, enhancements and gear towards that playstyle? What is your self-healing like?

Without (at least) that the only advice possible are generalities.

And your short answer is perfect. I didn't provide to many details, as I was interested if generic Rogue should be able to do this.

I am a sneaker/assassin, and have minimal trouble with the random monsters. Mob end fights are my toughest, and I didn't know what was normal.

Pots are my only self healing, so that's why I die. I depend on Improved Evasion, 11% Dodge (36% w/Uncanny Dodge) and 10% concealment, to help me survive the mob.

Main Hand is Unkor's Cleaver Battle Axe +6 Strength
2[1d10]
+5 Enhancement
Keen (19-20 x 3)
Vorpal
Bleeding 3d8
Fracturing 3d8
Red Augment Slot: Acid 4d6
Windlasher's Ferocity(Set w/Cloak)
+5 DoubleStrike Artifact
+5 Melee and Ranged power Artifact



Offhand is Ancient Vulkoorim Dagger +9 Dex
1.5[1d6]
+5 Enhancement Bonus
Poison Blast 3d6 + 3d6 on Crit
Giant Slayer
Giant Bane 3d10
Wounding 2 Cons -2
Adamantine
Purple Aug: Cold 4d6
Red Aug: Acid 4d6
Vulkoor's Chosen (Set w/Armor)
+10 Poison
Sneak Attack +1d Artifact
+1 Save Artifact
+1 Dex Artifact
+1 Con Artifact



I think I should swap them for this fight. 60% proc just isn't enough.


Damage seems to range from 60 to 120HP per hand, depending on rolls.

I have only been playing for a few months, solo, so I have little basis for comparison. A recommended build at 30 doesn' tell me where I should be at 18 on a 1st life. So I am felling my way and pestering all of you.

[Saekee]

It seems you like stealthplay so check out my sig for some links--they are old but should be ok still, many were before reaper wrecked stealth.

Almost all classes have some kind of self healing; even fighter now has a Don't Count me Out feat that restores them from bad predicaments. Assassins, however, DO NOT. You are a glass cannon. The moment you are in combat, time is ticking against you. Your best bet is either other party members or a hireling.

Another option is to burn points in the mechanic tree and take Wand and Scroll mastery. This will buff up the hp you receive from scrolls. Even a first life assassin should be able to UMD (use magic device) a heal scroll at that point; there are tips and tricks to make this possible. In that same tree is Improved Traps. This makes your glitterdust and web traps (you need to make them at the device workstation such as the one in Cannith by the Lava Caves challenges) have a very high DC to blind and/or trap mobs. Even reapers will get blinded, for example. So one option is to place them (equip your disable device gear when you do it; once the trap is set, you can swap out) before combat and pull mobs into them.

I saw you posted feats somewhere. Usual assassin feats are TWF, ITWF at level 9, and GTWF at 15; Improved critical at level 12. At some point you want Precision. This leaves really only a couple of feats for flexibility. I take Improved Feint early for twitch reasons more than the actual bluff effect. Vets will take past life: Sneak of shadows for a burst of sneak damage, or maybe a completionist feat. You can take something like weapon focus: Pierce for a bit more melee power, or SAP if you like soloing for a no-save non-helpless stun effect (I do not recommend this). Another good one is TWF defense to shore up the weaknesses of the class.


Main defenses: blur or lesser displacement; some kind of ghostly somewhere (helps buff your sneak skills too!); lots of deadly, seeker, deception, etc. If you are not constantly chugging haste potions then you will want a speed item too. If you have a ghostly item and are a dex-based toon, you probably do not even need hide in shadows/move silently buffs. (I could go on forever on sneaking recommendations if you are interested; check out my threads below).

[KoobTheProud]

The answer to the original question is maybe with some luck. Hard is a lot harder than most vets remember from a new player perspective.

I have a 2nd life Rogue at level 13 right now and she dies now and then to insta-kills that come out of nowhere. Not regularly but often enough that I can identify the risky pulls.

Also, after the last update any Druid caster has a real chance of two-shotting her with spells.

[Scrag]

Pots are my only self healing, so that's why I die.

Man, get plain old fashioned cleric hirelings! They are super cheap, bring rez or raise dead, damages, heals, and don't impact exp. If you are worried about them mucking sneak up, get diversion, park them some where, pop in, sneak whatever, bring them to you, and splat things with sneak damage since you are heavily loaded with diversion.

Not only can they heal, they are excellent mob magnets, letting you flank reasonably easy for sneak dice!

edit: animated rope (17) looks like it would do pretty good for standard diversion! huge deception, dodge, and diversion numbers, looks free to play!

[ahpook]

My rogue has struggled with this quest in the past when soloing. A key piece of any solo rogue play is a good escape plan. A few ideas that have helped me in this quest

- Park a cleric well away and out of sight from the final fight. Retreat to the cleric for a heal if needed
- As you fight, move away and back to be near the door so you can make a hasty retreat if you get overwhelmed.
- Deception items and improved feint can give you a burst of damage and a brief reprieve from attackers.
- Use Bluff to divide and conquer when facing down that big mob.
- Time Improved Uncanny Dodge for those moments when you start to get overwhelmed.

A solo rogue can handle most situations but they may need to be strategic. They can not generally handle getting swarmed so plan the attack and try not to get noticed by the full mob. With feints and deception, rogues can handle most 1 on 1 fights so make sure you engineer it to work out that way and have a plan to get out if it doesn't.

Good luck.

[Ddealti]

80 hp whacks, even without sneak dice, seems pretty low at your level.

Have you looked at things that can improve your damage, like int or dex to damage (if you arent already getting dex to damage)? What do your enhancements look like, are they propping up your damage? Are you trying to balance out your stats across multiple, or investing in one core stat? Are you getting any imbues? What kind of (or what, actually) are you swinging in combat? Are you using ranged attacks primarily? These are the good stuff to know!

I am having a hard time figuring out damage. So much seems to be hidden in "pierce" damage.

Imbued venomed blades is 4d8 (4-64) scales 200% of melee power. My Melee power can be 5%, 35%, or 65% depending on boosts.
So, 64x1.65= 105 damage (and somehow I will see numbers higher than that, sometimes) But with a bad roll and no boosts, it can be as low as 6.
So 6 to 105 damage is a huge spread of possibilities.

I am +9 on damage from Dex.

Anc. Vul. Dagger is 1.5x1d6 So I should be doing around 12 base damage, but then sneak attack and double strike damage is blended into the "pierce" damage so I will see numbers in the 30s, but I don't know how to break that down.

So the dagger damage stack, unboosted or buffed, is typically around 25 poison + 15 built it bonus (poison) + 15 Augment 1 + 15 Augment 2 and 20 weapon damage. so around 90 HP damage, best I can figure. But then I will see larger numbers in the floating ones above the fight.

Dual weapons and 8% Melee speed bumps up my DPS over several rounds.

Long story short, I don't have good handle on my DPS.

[Ddealti]

It seems you like stealthplay so check out my sig for some links--they are old but should be ok still, many were before reaper wrecked stealth.

Almost all classes have some kind of self healing; even fighter now has a Don't Count me Out feat that restores them from bad predicaments. Assassins, however, DO NOT. You are a glass cannon. The moment you are in combat, time is ticking against you. Your best bet is either other party members or a hireling.

Another option is to burn points in the mechanic tree and take Wand and Scroll mastery. This will buff up the hp you receive from scrolls. Even a first life assassin should be able to UMD (use magic device) a heal scroll at that point; there are tips and tricks to make this possible. In that same tree is Improved Traps. This makes your glitterdust and web traps (you need to make them at the device workstation such as the one in Cannith by the Lava Caves challenges) have a very high DC to blind and/or trap mobs. Even reapers will get blinded, for example. So one option is to place them (equip your disable device gear when you do it; once the trap is set, you can swap out) before combat and pull mobs into them.

I saw you posted feats somewhere. Usual assassin feats are TWF, ITWF at level 9, and GTWF at 15; Improved critical at level 12. At some point you want Precision. This leaves really only a couple of feats for flexibility. I take Improved Feint early for twitch reasons more than the actual bluff effect. Vets will take past life: Sneak of shadows for a burst of sneak damage, or maybe a completionist feat. You can take something like weapon focus: Pierce for a bit more melee power, or SAP if you like soloing for a no-save non-helpless stun effect (I do not recommend this). Another good one is TWF defense to shore up the weaknesses of the class.


Main defenses: blur or lesser displacement; some kind of ghostly somewhere (helps buff your sneak skills too!); lots of deadly, seeker, deception, etc. If you are not constantly chugging haste potions then you will want a speed item too. If you have a ghostly item and are a dex-based toon, you probably do not even need hide in shadows/move silently buffs. (I could go on forever on sneaking recommendations if you are interested; check out my threads below).

Thanks for those great links and your insights. I have trouble matching theory to application, so many things I read don't really make sense until I am in the thick of it.

You are so spot on with Glass Cannon. It is like I play 2 different games, now that I have assassinate. With patience, I can clear halls of trash, 2 at a time, by assassinating everything, receiving minimal or no damage. It's like playing on Easy.

Then I hit boss fights and suddenly it is like playing on Super Hard.

My melee style is panic and blindly smash buttons.

I will sneak in an find boss or spellcaster. Assassinate them (if possible) and keep assassinating until I am knocked out of stealth.
First I will hit whomever with Sly Flourish (+3W, +3 Crit Range and -300% attention)
Then a shadow dagger (8d8 plus typically blinds)
Then I cycle through my hotkey attack sequence.

Then I jump, to try to get some space, and go into sneak for as many stacks of Measure the Foe (1/second) that I can get.
Hopefully all attacks have cooled down, and I repeat the same process.

If I remember I will hit the mob with a sequence of Tanglefoot, Ooze Flask and Thunderstone.

Usually I will outlast the crowd, but at higher levels it is getting really hard.

I didn't know if making traps was worth the effort, but it seems they will be now.

[Ddealti]

My rogue has struggled with this quest in the past when soloing. A key piece of any solo rogue play is a good escape plan. A few ideas that have helped me in this quest

- Park a cleric well away and out of sight from the final fight. Retreat to the cleric for a heal if needed
- As you fight, move away and back to be near the door so you can make a hasty retreat if you get overwhelmed.
- Deception items and improved feint can give you a burst of damage and a brief reprieve from attackers.
- Use Bluff to divide and conquer when facing down that big mob.
- Time Improved Uncanny Dodge for those moments when you start to get overwhelmed.

A solo rogue can handle most situations but they may need to be strategic. They can not generally handle getting swarmed so plan the attack and try not to get noticed by the full mob. With feints and deception, rogues can handle most 1 on 1 fights so make sure you engineer it to work out that way and have a plan to get out if it doesn't.

Good luck.

Thanks for sharing your experience. One thing you bring up is Bluff. I have yet to get a handle on using Bluff, Trip, and Sunder, because I a usually busy with my special attacks.
I probably should have used them early and learned them, when I had fewer options.

Do they hold up at higher levels?

I also haven't gotten a hang of kiting and all of that. I tend to end up pulling everyone. I should probably look for a strategy video of that on YouTube.

In other replies, I have detailed my play style. Next life I will take the time to learn these at early levels.

Note to self: Work on Run Away options.

[Loromir]

Thanks for sharing your experience. One thing you bring up is Bluff. I have yet to get a handle on using Bluff, Trip, and Sunder, because I a usually busy with my special attacks.
I probably should have used them early and learned them, when I had fewer options.

Do they hold up at higher levels?

I also haven't gotten a hang of kiting and all of that. I tend to end up pulling everyone. I should probably look for a strategy video of that on YouTube.

In other replies, I have detailed my play style. Next life I will take the time to learn these at early levels.

Note to self: Work on Run Away options.

I would say...a lot of vets would like to go back to square one like you are right now. A lot of what initially drew me to DDO is just what you are experiencing. It's like solving a difficult puzzle, figuring it out brings lots of satisfaction. Its like a drug, we keep searching for that high. Now that I've played DDO for 13 years....I miss the days still trying to figure things out. Now it's just about trying to get more power. Don't get frustrated....enjoy the process.

[Ddealti]

Man, get plain old fashioned cleric hirelings! They are super cheap, bring rez or raise dead, damages, heals, and don't impact exp. If you are worried about them mucking sneak up, get diversion, park them some where, pop in, sneak whatever, bring them to you, and splat things with sneak damage since you are heavily loaded with diversion.

Not only can they heal, they are excellent mob magnets, letting you flank reasonably easy for sneak dice!

edit: animated rope (17) looks like it would do pretty good for standard diversion! huge deception, dodge, and diversion numbers, looks free to play!

I am working on effectively using dumb a hirelings, to stay out of the way, while still being useful.

I need to get over my fear of LFM.

Yes, I saw Animated Rope and it is on my wish list.

[Captain_Wizbang]

ToF for less than optimal builds without the power creep past lives, requires tactics.

As to hirelings, cleric is a lot players obvious choice, but most certainly not ideal, (IMO they suck)

FVS provides heal and offensive capabilities BUT they burn SP too fast. Bard is the optimal choice for players (or builds) like you. Heals, great offense and they will raise you after lvl 10.

Tactics 1, using a ranged weapon to "pull" as few enemies as possible from a distance, we used to be able to pull one at a time, but they took that (and every other stealth ability) out of the game. Another dumb decision by SSG on game play)

Tactics2, with hirelings can be tricky with certain ones, even in passive mode, a few will run ahead into battle, yikes. Using a fighter or barbarian as bait actually works as they draw aggro which will give you sneak attack. And it's kind of funny to watch.

In ToF there are many ways to bail-out on a fight if you're getting overwhelmed, keep in mind, if you go back through a door, they will be waiting for you when you re-enter. (Which you can use to your advantage, having clickies and such off cool-down and ready to use the moment you re-enter.) *caster hirelings can be useful in that also, as soon as you re-enter, they will follow, just tab (target) an enemy and have them cast asap. Which will also draw aggro.


Lastly, take your time, ToF solo is a major time sink for newer builds/players. *see above tactics 1* Bind at tavern, so if you die, just release, do a quick repair/ heal at bar and run back into quest (you have 5 minutes before instance resets) at that point, losing 10% xp isn't a big deal as completing is.
Hope that helps. (ToF can be fun, take your time)
RoG

[Ddealti]

ToF for less than optimal builds without the power creep past lives, requires tactics.

As to hirelings, cleric is a lot players obvious choice, but most certainly not ideal, (IMO they suck)

FVS provides heal and offensive capabilities BUT they burn SP too fast. Bard is the optimal choice for players (or builds) like you. Heals, great offense and they will raise you after lvl 10.

Tactics 1, using a ranged weapon to "pull" as few enemies as possible from a distance, we used to be able to pull one at a time, but they took that (and every other stealth ability) out of the game. Another dumb decision by SSG on game play)

Tactics2, with hirelings can be tricky with certain ones, even in passive mode, a few will run ahead into battle, yikes. Using a fighter or barbarian as bait actually works as they draw aggro which will give you sneak attack. And it's kind of funny to watch.

In ToF there are many ways to bail-out on a fight if you're getting overwhelmed, keep in mind, if you go back through a door, they will be waiting for you when you re-enter. (Which you can use to your advantage, having clickies and such off cool-down and ready to use the moment you re-enter.) *caster hirelings can be useful in that also, as soon as you re-enter, they will follow, just tab (target) an enemy and have them cast asap. Which will also draw aggro.


Lastly, take your time, ToF solo is a major time sink for newer builds/players. *see above tactics 1* Bind at tavern, so if you die, just release, do a quick repair/ heal at bar and run back into quest (you have 5 minutes before instance resets) at that point, losing 10% xp isn't a big deal as completing is.
Hope that helps. (ToF can be fun, take your time)
RoG

Thank you for your insights and suggestions. I have never considered a bard. I usually take a Paladin, because they heal enough and pull aggro for me.

I discovered tonight that it really helps if you learn how to play the frigging game. LOL.

I have dabbled with Bluff in the past but never tried to pull with it. Holy cow.

I had already discovered that you can pop out of sneak attack and take 1 step, to activated the hibernating monster, then pop back into sneak attack and it will still let you assassinate, if you are quick about it. Turns out Red Eyes can also still be assassinated. Aaaannnd, you can sometimes assassinate and not trigger the dummy standing right next to them.

Sooo.... I killed everything with minimal problems (discovered I can assassinate hedges????) and then at the final battle, I quickly dropped into sneak, and bluff pulled all of the minions to around the corner and assassinated them in turn. It was kind of like a teen slasher movie. Then when I fought the Red Name, I was able to kill him off. And I got the loot I was farming (on the 3rd re-roll).

So, everything turned out good, and I learned a lot of great stuff from all of you.

Now on to Sharn.

[Captain_Wizbang]

Thank you for your insights and suggestions. I have never considered a bard. I usually take a Paladin, because they heal enough and pull aggro for me.

I discovered tonight that it really helps if you learn how to play the frigging game. LOL.

I have dabbled with Bluff in the past but never tried to pull with it. Holy cow.

I had already discovered that you can pop out of sneak attack and take 1 step, to activated the hibernating monster, then pop back into sneak attack and it will still let you assassinate, if you are quick about it. Turns out Red Eyes can also still be assassinated. Aaaannnd, you can sometimes assassinate and not trigger the dummy standing right next to them.

Sooo.... I killed everything with minimal problems (discovered I can assassinate hedges????) and then at the final battle, I quickly dropped into sneak, and bluff pulled all of the minions to around the corner and assassinated them in turn. It was kind of like a teen slasher movie. Then when I fought the Red Name, I was able to kill him off. And I got the loot I was farming (on the 3rd re-roll).

So, everything turned out good, and I learned a lot of great stuff from all of you.

Now on to Sharn.

Tactics, can compensate for a lot of things. side note* as you level up, so do the enemies. (saves, etc,,,*