Charimsa-based SWF PDK Paladin

[Maxxcore]

Hello! I am looking for feedback for my potential endgame Paladin build. I am open to changing much of the build, but I want it to be charisma based, PDK, and SWF for sure. Currently I am wondering what the best AP split would be, and also what type of armor I should wear (light vs medium vs heavy).

I am planning on swapping from longsword to bastard sword at 32 for endgame content, this may be a bad idea, but I am not sure. I figure the added aoe of bastard sword should be pretty sweet.

Would love to hear critiques or things people would change. Thanks



Character name: Sheikra
Classes: 20 Paladin, 10 Epic, 2 Legendary
Race: Purple Dragon Knight Alignment: Lawful Good

· · ·Start Tome Final · · ·Incorp:· · ·0% · · ·Displacement:· · 0%
Str:· · ·8· · 8 · ·19 · · ·HP:· · · ·1475 · · ·AC:· · 48
Dex:· · 13· · 8 · ·24 · · ·PRR: · · · ·59
Con:· · 16· · 8 · ·27 · · ·MRR: · · · ·26 · · ·+Healing Amp:· ·165
Int:· · 13· · 8 · ·25 · · ·Dodge: · ·5/25 · · ·-Healing Amp: 4294967261
Wis:· · ·8· · 8 · ·19 · · ·Fort:· · ·114% · · ·Repair Amp:· · · 25
Cha:· · 18· · 8 · ·48 · · ·SR:· · · · · 0 · · ·BAB: · · · · · · 25
DR:
Immunities: Natural Disease, Magical Disease, Super-Natural Disease, Fear, Energy Drain, Weapon Durability Damage, Petrification, Fear

Heroic Past Lives
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Past Life: Alchemist
Past Life: Artificer
Past Life: Barbarian
Past Life: Bard(2)
Past Life: Cleric(2)
Past Life: Druid
Past Life: Favored Soul
Past Life: Fighter(2)
Past Life: Monk
Past Life: Paladin(3)
Past Life: Ranger
Past Life: Rogue(3)
Past Life: Sorcerer(3)
Past Life: Warlock(3)
Past Life: Wizard(3)

Racial Past Lives
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Past Life: Dragonborn(3)
Past Life: Drow(3)
Past Life: Dwarf(3)
Past Life: Gnome(3)
Past Life: Half-Elf(3)
Past Life: Half-Orc(3)
Past Life: Halfling(3)
Past Life: Human(3)
Past Life: Tabaxi
Past Life: Tiefling(3)

Iconic Past Lives
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Past Life: Bladeforged(2)
Past Life: Deep Gnome(3)
Past Life: Purple Dragon Knight(3)
Past Life: Tabaxi Trailblazer

Epic Past Lives
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Past Life: Arcane Sphere: Ancient Knowledge
Past Life: Arcane Sphere: Arcane Alacrity(2)
Past Life: Arcane Sphere: Energy Criticals(3)
Past Life: Divine Sphere: Ancient Blessings(3)
Past Life: Divine Sphere: Power Over Life and Death
Past Life: Martial Sphere: Doublestrike(3)
Past Life: Primal Sphere: Colors of the Queen
Past Life: Primal Sphere: Doubleshot(3)

Class and Feat Selection
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Level Class · · · · · ·Feats
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Level 1 Requires a +1 Heart of Wood to switch out of Iconic Class
1 · · Paladin(1)· · · ·Standard: Single Weapon Fighting
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Purple Dragon Knight Bonus: Dodge
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Follower of Faith: Favored by Helm
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Cross Class Skills: Balance(4)
2 · · Paladin(2)· · · ·
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Cross Class Skills: Balance(1)
3 · · Paladin(3)· · · ·Standard: Mobility
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Cross Class Skills: Balance(1)
4 · · Paladin(4)· · · ·Charisma: +1 Level up
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Cross Class Skills: Balance(1)
5 · · Paladin(5)· · · ·
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Cross Class Skills: Balance(1)
6 · · Paladin(6)· · · ·Standard: Whirlwind Attack
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Deity: Ever Watchful
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Cross Class Skills: Balance(1)
7 · · Paladin(7)· · · ·
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Cross Class Skills: Balance(1)
8 · · Paladin(8)· · · ·Charisma: +1 Level up
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Cross Class Skills: Balance(1)
9 · · Paladin(9)· · · ·Standard: Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Cross Class Skills: Balance(1)
10· · Paladin(10) · · ·
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Cross Class Skills: Balance(1)
11· · Paladin(11) · · ·
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Cross Class Skills: Balance(1)
12· · Paladin(12) · · ·Standard: Improved Single Weapon Fighting
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Charisma: +1 Level up
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Cross Class Skills: Balance(1)
13· · Paladin(13) · · ·
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Cross Class Skills: Balance(1)
14· · Paladin(14) · · ·
15· · Paladin(15) · · ·Standard: Greater Single Weapon Fighting
16· · Paladin(16) · · ·Charisma: +1 Level up
17· · Paladin(17) · · ·
18· · Paladin(18) · · ·Standard: Offhand Versatility
19· · Paladin(19) · · ·
20· · Paladin(20) · · ·Charisma: +1 Level up
21· · Epic(1) · · · · ·Epic Feat: Overwhelming Critical
22· · Epic(2) · · · · ·Epic Destiny Feat: Perfect Two Handed Fighting
23· · Epic(3) · · · · ·
24· · Epic(4) · · · · ·Epic Feat: Precision
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Charisma: +1 Level up
25· · Epic(5) · · · · ·Epic Destiny Feat: Perfect Single Weapon Fighting
26· · Epic(6) · · · · ·
27· · Epic(7) · · · · ·Epic Feat: Epic Will
28· · Epic(8) · · · · ·Epic Destiny Feat: Doublestrike
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Charisma: +1 Level up
29· · Epic(9) · · · · ·
30· · Epic(10)· · · · ·Epic Feat: Epic Reflexes
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Legendary: Scion of Arborea
31· · Legendary(1)· · ·Epic Destiny Feat: Two Handed Specialty
32· · Legendary(2)· · ·Charisma: +1 Level up

Enhancements: 80 APs, Racial 11, Universal 1
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Purple Dragon Knight - Points spent: 13
Core1 Versatility I: Damage Boost
Tier1 Cormyrean Knight Training
Core2 Adaptability: +1 Charisma
Tier1 Improved Recovery I
Tier1 Action Surge I: Charisma - 2 Ranks
Tier2 Action Surge II: Constitution - 2 Ranks
Tier3 Improved Recovery II
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Knight of the Chalice - Points spent: 48
Core1 Slayer of Evil I
Tier1 Improved Second Strikes - 3 Ranks
Tier1 Extra Smite - 3 Ranks
Tier1 Shieldbeaker - 3 Ranks
Tier2 Exalted Attack: Exalted Cleave
Tier2 Divine Might - 3 Ranks
Core2 Courage of Heaven
Tier2 Critical Mastery - 3 Ranks
Tier3 Ability I: +1 Charisma
Core3 Slayer of Evil II
Tier3 Exalted Smite: Exalted Smite - 3 Ranks
Tier3 Holy Combatant II
Tier4 Ability II: +1 Charisma
Core4 Improved Courage of Heaven
Tier4 Vigor of Life I
Tier4 Censure Demons
Tier4 Knight's Training
Core5 Slayer of Evil III
Tier5 Holy Retribution: Holy Retribution
Tier5 Avenging Attack: Avenging Cleave
Tier5 Vigor of Life II
Tier5 Censure Outsiders
Tier5 Ascendancy
Core6 Champion of Good
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sacred Defender - Points spent: 15
Core1 Holy Bastion
Tier1 Extra Lay on Hands - 3 Ranks
Tier1 Improved Sacred Defense I: Durable Defense - 3 Ranks
Tier2 Improved Sacred Defense II: Resilient Defense - 2 Ranks
Core2 Sacred Defence
Tier3 Ability I: +1 Charisma
Tier3 Greater Sacred Defense I: Hardy Defense - 3 Ranks
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vistani Knife Fighter - Points spent: 13
Core1 Knife Expertise
Tier1 Undead Hunter
Tier1 Mist Stalker I
Tier1 Acrobatic - 2 Ranks
Tier2 Haste Boost - 3 Ranks
Core2 Knife Juggler
Core3 Quick Reflexes
Tier3 Gifted I: +1 Charisma
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Falconry - Points spent: 3
Core1 Summon Falcon: Summon Raven
Tier1 Out in Nature - 2 Ranks
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Epic Destinies: 40 APs + 7 permanent Destiny Points
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Divine Crusader - Points spent: 34
Core1 Just Cause
Tier1 Divine Smite
Tier1 Divine Sundering - 3 Ranks
Tier1 Consecration - 3 Ranks
Tier2 Endless Smiting - 3 Ranks
Core2 Confront any Foe
Tier2 Holy Mantle
Tier2 Bulk Up - 2 Ranks
Core3 Weather any Blow
Tier3 Crusade
Tier3 Strike with Poise - 3 Ranks
Tier4 Cower Before Me
Core4 Sunder Evil
Tier4 Blessed Strikes - 3 Ranks
Tier4 Heavenly Presence
Tier5 Blessed Blades
Tier5 Law of the Divine
Tier5 Mighty Crusade
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Legendary Dreadnought - Points spent: 16
Core1 Fearless
Tier1 Shrug Off Punishment - 3 Ranks
Tier1 Epic Tactics - 1 Ranks
Tier2 Extra Action Boosts - 3 Ranks
Core2 Weaponmaster
Tier2 Life and Death - 3 Ranks
Core3 Thick Skinned
Tier3 Strike Twice - 3 Ranks
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Unyielding Sentinel - Points spent: 5
Core1 Unyielding
Tier1 Brace for Impact - 3 Ranks
Tier1 Attack and Defend - 1 Ranks

[dkyle]

Am I missing how you get Bastard Sword proficiency? You're going to want that.

[unbongwah]

Am I missing how you get Bastard Sword proficiency?

Free from Helm (the deity, not the thing on your head).

[thegreatcthulhu]

I think you should be fine with this build if you wanted to go medium. My gut is telling me that if you wanted to go Heavy, you probably would be better off with more points into Dreadnought to get Armor of Dusk. I'll admit that I am still not 100% sold on the "go medium for DPS Paladins" argument. But, I am going to try it out myself, as soon as I have a particular gear setup for it.

For some reason I am expecting to see more points in the epic destinies. Shouldn't you have 60+ points available? Or am I missing something?

Something that came to my mind: Unless you tried it and do not like it, I would suggest giving "How Dare You Strike Me" in Divine Crusader a try. I've found that with the number of monsters in the game that can trigger it, you often times will wind up with double consecration circles going at once, which can be quite beneficial.

I am not sure how much you like having lots of cleaves / active abilities. I personally found exalted cleave to be almost redundant, since at end game you have the potential for so many smite evil charge. And Exalted Smite seems to have more reliable AOE than exalted cleave. But if you enjoy having lots of active abilities, then I can see that being a reason to keep it. Also, keep in mind this is based on me using mostly THF. It might not work out as well minimizing the cleaves when playing SWF w/ or w/out Bastard Sword.

What was some of the equipment were you going to be throwing on this Paladin? The Sharn set + Feywild & Dread or are you going for something else? I'm curious as to what you have available.

[Kodwraith]

The basic structure looks fine. SWF as you progress through, Imp Crit Slash, Helm as diety. Take THF at 31 for the glancing blows.

For my mileage, I find I really like having Emp Healing, Magical Training and Precision earlier instead of the Whirlwind line. The couple of points to spend into Feydark for unbreakable weapons are super handy early on. Since you're CHA based, instead of whirlwind in Epic, consider Epic Toughness/Will/ Reflexes since you will have very very high saves. Last pure pally life, I ran a S&B + Bsword paladin with a very similar feat line except 2HF + Shield Mastery since they work at the same time during leveling. SWF + BSword is also quite potent though.

Note that GSword is also pretty amazing in case you don't already have a large BSword collection in inventory. It is slightly slower on bosses, but it clears out mobs very quickly.


My other CHA build was here, but it relies on leveling with Gswords or Long Swords until 23 if you're not a PDK.
https://forums.ddo.com/forums/showth...HA-Pally-Build

[Kodwraith]

Apologies, I didn't actually answer your question on AP spend.

For SWF, 41 or 42 into KotC for Tier5s, 31 into SD for aura, PRR and run speed. Although note the +HP bonus in tier 3 SD does NOT stack with the Tier 5 KotC one (so sad). You'll have 8ish points to spend wherever, with 3 almost certainly going into PDK for CHA hit/dmg tactics. So 5 AP wherever depending on how many racial AP you have. You;ll at least want the +6 CON and run speed in SD Tier3/4. The L18 core is nice too.

When I leveled my Bsword pally last time, I had racial points so I went 7 AP into Feydark illusionist (I took Magical training at L1 and klept it until 23 when I swapped for BSword Prof) and kept that until I respecced everything at 23 when I went all BSword all the time. But that's playing as a non-pdk. Since you have helm, you'll likely spend whatever is left after SD/KotC into the PDK tree.

In epics, on my pally builds I really really dig running with 13 pints into Exalted Angel for the auto heal. I'm a sloppy player so self healing for a couple hundred points a tick + the inherent defenses of Pally are easy mode. I've run Divine Crusader on Shield using BSword builds, but LD also works. Almost all of the martial destinies have useful stuff. Without a shield, US is likely the least useful at higher levels, but makes a great splash. For my last B&S build I ran 40 odd points in DC, 13 Exalted, 7 Shadowdancer, mostly for dimension door.

[thegreatcthulhu]

The basic structure looks fine. SWF as you progress through, Imp Crit Slash, Helm as diety. Take THF at 31 for the glancing blows.

For my mileage, I find I really like having Emp Healing, Magical Training and Precision earlier instead of the Whirlwind line. The couple of points to spend into Feydark for unbreakable weapons are super handy early on. Since you're CHA based, instead of whirlwind in Epic, consider Epic Toughness/Will/ Reflexes since you will have very very high saves. Last pure pally life, I ran a S&B + Bsword paladin with a very similar feat line except 2HF + Shield Mastery since they work at the same time during leveling. SWF + BSword is also quite potent though.

Note that GSword is also pretty amazing in case you don't already have a large BSword collection in inventory. It is slightly slower on bosses, but it clears out mobs very quickly.


My other CHA build was here, but it relies on leveling with Gswords or Long Swords until 23 if you're not a PDK.
https://forums.ddo.com/forums/showth...HA-Pally-Build

I second the thing on the epic will/reflexes. You definitely give up trash clearing abilities by not getting whirlwind but the survivability gains are actually impressive. I didn't think much of it at first "nah I never fail those kinds of saves that much..." but the no fails is actually pretty nice.

[Dielzen]

What was some of the equipment were you going to be throwing on this Paladin? The Sharn set + Feywild & Dread or are you going for something else? I'm curious as to what you have available.

Been gone for a while and not much of a melee player in the old days, preferring casters. I'm playing a SWF Longsword build through a couple lives lately and was curious what a good engame set would be. I've looked through the forums but can't find a detailed charisma-based gear list anywhere. I'd love to see something to work towards, raid gear is fine.

[Kodwraith]

I ended up running this 7summer/ 4winter set. I was a pajama toon, so swap out the firefly robes for your winter or summer plate and adjust accordingly.


Weapon: Fellblade (longsword)
- Red Augment Slot: Devotion +139 Equipment (ML 28)
- Orange Augment Slot: Deconstructor
Armor: Firefly Garb
- Blue Augment Slot: Globe of True Imperial Blood
- Green Augment Slot: Feather Falling (ML 4)
Belt: Legendary Belt of the Ram
- Green Augment Slot:
Boots: Legendary Deepsnow Boots
- Green Augment Slot:
Bracers: Legendary Vambrace of the Summer Court
- Green Augment Slot:
Cloak: Legendary Cloak of Summer
- Green Augment Slot:
Gloves: The Prince's Gauntlet
- Blue Augment Slot:
- Green Augment Slot:
- Yellow Augment Slot:
Goggles: Legendary Collective Sight
- Nearly Finished: Dexterity +13 Enhancement
- Almost There: Charisma +6 Insight
- Blue Augment Slot:
Helm: Titania's Glory
- Green Augment Slot:
Necklace: Legendary Winter Court Necklace
- Green Augment Slot:
Ring1: Legendary Lionheart Ring
- Green Augment Slot: Deadly +10 Competence (ML 28)
Ring2: Legendary Nocturne Ring
- Green Augment Slot:
Trinket: Legendary Battleworn Medal
- Blue Augment Slot: Diamond of Vitality +20

[Maxxcore]

The basic structure looks fine. SWF as you progress through, Imp Crit Slash, Helm as diety. Take THF at 31 for the glancing blows.

For my mileage, I find I really like having Emp Healing, Magical Training and Precision earlier instead of the Whirlwind line. The couple of points to spend into Feydark for unbreakable weapons are super handy early on. Since you're CHA based, instead of whirlwind in Epic, consider Epic Toughness/Will/ Reflexes since you will have very very high saves. Last pure pally life, I ran a S&B + Bsword paladin with a very similar feat line except 2HF + Shield Mastery since they work at the same time during leveling. SWF + BSword is also quite potent though.

Note that GSword is also pretty amazing in case you don't already have a large BSword collection in inventory. It is slightly slower on bosses, but it clears out mobs very quickly.


My other CHA build was here, but it relies on leveling with Gswords or Long Swords until 23 if you're not a PDK.
https://forums.ddo.com/forums/showth...HA-Pally-Build

I appreciate the feedback. I have not played swf Paladin since whirlwind got improved, but I know on other SWF builds it is extremely strong through heroics and epics. Paladin does have 3 cleave effects already, so it might be redudant, but magical training and empower healing are meh. This build is a PDK in case you did not see, which means there is no 'early on', it starts at level 15. Precision in low epics I think is best, as 26~ is when I start legendary content and to-hit can be a bit rough that underlevel.

[Kodwraith]

I appreciate the feedback. I have not played swf Paladin since whirlwind got improved, but I know on other SWF builds it is extremely strong through heroics and epics. Paladin does have 3 cleave effects already, so it might be redudant, but magical training and empower healing are meh. This build is a PDK in case you did not see, which means there is no 'early on', it starts at level 15. Precision in low epics I think is best, as 26~ is when I start legendary content and to-hit can be a bit rough that underlevel.

I'm running a 8 fighter / 6 SF / 6 monk centered Bsword build right now as a PDK. So the defensive/armored bits are completely different but the Offensive bits are similar.

The appeal of this kind of BSword build is the synergy between SWF and 2HF from the strikethrough 2HF feat at 31 plus whatever you pick up in the ED trees. It's a similar concept to the BSword + shield mastery builds but obviously without the shield.

A couple thoughts:
- the strikethrough damage basically doesn't kick in at all until L31.
- up until then your damage output and questing speed is largely determined by how many cleaves you have. You'll be cleaving all the time.

The actual weapon you use will swamp the theory craft. An expanded crit profile can beat the bsword + 10% dmg output.
- Up until 31, a greatsword may actually do more damage even without the relevant feats. I am at 24 right now and took Perfect 2HF and that increased my strikethrough to 60%! At L20, my decked out Sword of Shadows actually does a bunch more damage than my L20 Chimera Fang.
- Against a single enemy (like a boss) switch to a longsword. Nightforge avenger or Oathblade at 20. Fellblade at 26.

I'll let you know how it runs at 31, but it's still a hella fun style.