U58 Preview 3: Dark Hunter Ranger Archetype

[KookieKobold]

Dark Hunter is a new Ranger Archetype with themes of Assassination, sneaking, hunting, trapmaking, scavenging, and throwing weapons.

Changes from last preview are listed in Blue!

Feats and Features This Archetype Gets (that base Ranger does not):

• Trapfinding (1)
• Trap Making (3)
• Trap Sense +1 (3, 6, 9, 12, 15, 18) (same as rogue and barbarian)
• Sneak Attack 1d6 (1, 5, 10, 15, 20) (every 5 levels instead of every 2, means they get half of the sneak attack dice as Rogue does, 5d6 instead of 10d6)
• Medium Armor Proficiency (1)

Feats and Features This Archetype DOES NOT Get (that base Ranger does):

• All Favored Enemy feats that are not: Vermin, Elf, Aberration, Animal, Humanoid, Monstrous Humanoid
• Evasion

Spellbook:
While Base Ranger has Cure spells, Dark Hunter does not - Instead, they get Curative Admixture spells. Otherwise, their spellbook resembles the Ranger one.


Skills:
Dark Hunters get Open Lock and Disable Device as Class Skills, and otherwise have the same Class Skills as Base Rangers.

Past Life:
Dark Hunter: +1 Sneak Attack and +1 Sneak Attack Damage per stack of this Past Life.

Enhancement Trees:
This archetype gets the new Dark Hunter tree in place of Arcane Archer! It retains the Tempest and Deepwood Stalker Trees.

• (It's worth noting that if you have another source of the Arcane Archer, such as the Elven version, you may use that tree with the Dark Hunter Archetype).

Dark Hunter Enhancement Tree:

• Core 1: Underdark Stalker: You gain +5 HP, +1 reflex saving throw, and -1 Medium Armor Check Penalty per core ability you take in this tree.
• Core 3: Smoke Trap: Throw a smoke grenade at a target, if they fail a fortitude save (DC20 + Dex Mod + Assassinate + Trap DCs) they lose their immunity to sneak attack and 25% of their fortification for 25 seconds. (Cooldown: 12 seconds)
• Core 6: Underdark Defenses: While wearing Medium Armor, gain Exceptional bonus to Armor Class +10% and you take 50% trap damage.
• Core 12: Escape Through the Dark: Whenever you become Invisible, you gain a Primal bonus to Sneak Attack Dice equal to your Wilderness Lore. This lingers for 5 seconds after you become Invisible and may only trigger once every 60 seconds.
• Core 18: Death Stalker: +25% Sneak Speed. While you are sneaking, you gain a 5% enhancement damage bonus to your melee, ranged and unarmed attacks. This lingers for 10 seconds after you leave Stealth. (note: this does not stack with the Relentless Fury item affix)
• Core 20: Hunter in the Dark: +2 Dex, Int, and Wis. +10% Doublestrike and Doubleshot. +10 Melee and Ranged Power. Your Cull the Weak bonus now applies against enemies that are Snared or Entangled.

Tier 1:

• Dark Wolf: You gain a Black Wolf as an Animal Companion. Each rank also gives you +5 HP.
• Wolf Hide: (req Dark Wolf) +2/4/6 PRR
• Sneak Attack Training: +1 Sneak Attack die and +1 to hit when performing sneak attacks
• Bleed the Weak: Imbue Toggle: 1d8 Bleed damage, scaling with Melee Power. Increases to 1d10 vs enemies below 50%, and increases again to 1d12 against enemies below 25%. While toggled on, your Dark Wolf also uses this Imbue using the same number of Imbue Dice you have.
• Awareness: +1/2/3 Listen, Search, Spot, and to-hit.

Tier 2:

• Furor of the Hunter: Your Black Wolf gains +3/6/10 to hit and damage, +2/4/6 Primal Bonus to AC, and its attacks bypass 10%/20%/50% of enemy Fortification.
• Assassin's Training: +1/2/3 Assassinate DCs.
• Sneak Attack Training: +1 Sneak Attack die and +1 to hit when performing sneak attacks
• Improved Traps: +1/2/3 to the save DC's of Alchemical Trap Attacks and Magical Traps. Elemental Traps that you place now have a DC equal to 65/80/100% of your Disable Device Skill instead of 50%. (copied from Mechanic)
• Action Boost: Skills or Sprint

Tier 3:

• Primal Energy: Your Black Wolf gains a +2/+4/+6 Primal Bonus to all Ability Scores. You gain +1/2/3 Imbue Dice.
• Snap Trap: Toss a snapping trap at the targeted enemy. If they don't make a Fortitude Save (DC 20 + Dex Mod + Assassinate + Bonus Trap DCs) they are rooted in place by the trap's jaws.
• Sneak Attack Training: +1 Sneak Attack die and +1 to hit when performing sneak attacks
• Use Magical Device: +1/2/3 Use Magic Device
• Ability Score: Multiselector: +1 Dex / Int / Wis

Tier 4:

• Lupine Instincts: Your Black Wolf inherits your Search and Spot scores, and will automatically find traps and secret doors for you assuming you meet the statistical threshold. You gain a bonus to Search and Disable Device equal to your Wilderness Lore feats.
• Slayer in the Dark: Killing an enemy grants you a +5 Morale bonus to Melee and Ranged Power, stacking 2/3/4 times. Duration: 20s
• Sneak Attack Training: +1 Sneak Attack die and +1 to hit when performing sneak attacks
• Smoke Bomb: Smoke Bomb SLA
• Ability Score: Multiselector: +1 Dex / Int / Wis

Tier 5:

• Ferocity: You gain +10% Doublestrike and Doubleshot. Your Black Wolf gains 25% Attack Speed and 100% Fortification Bypass.
• Stone's Hue: Your Camouflage spell also grants the target +1 PRR per 2 caster levels, max caster level 20.
• Death Attack: Stealth Melee Assassinate Attack: On Sneak Attack: Attempt to Assassinate a foe before you. If it is an enemy type that a Dark Hunter could have as a Favored Enemy (Vermin, Elves, Aberrations, Animals, Humanoids, and Monstrous Humanoids) then you attempt to snuff out its life, killing it instantly unless it makes a Fortitude save vs Death (DC 10 + Ranger Level + highest of Dex, Int, or Wis Mod + Assassinate bonuses). If it is a different enemy type, or it makes its Fortitude save, you instead mortally wound it, lowering its Physical and Magical Resistance rating by 10 and dealing an extra 1d20 Bleed damage per character level.
• Blade Specialization: Multiselector: You gain a +1 Competence bonus to Critical Damage Multiplier or Threat Range with your weapons.
• Dark Sight: You have True Seeing and +25% Competence bonus to HP. You may also toggle this on to gain Underdark Sight while within the Underdark.

Known Issues:

• N/A

[Seph1roth5]

Did we ever get an answer to if cull the weak was bleed the weak? And if it is, what bonus is applied? the one for <50% or <25% ?

[Firebreed]

Edit: This has been fixed.

(Smoke Trap & Snap Trap should also have "highest of DEX/INT/WIS" in their DC.)

[spifflove]

Druid gets everything Ranger gets nothing. Well I’m glad I’m no longer young and idealistic.

=[

[Xgya]

Any chance to have the Armor Check Penalty core also increase Max Dex Bonus?
This IS supposed to be a dex-based tree after all.

I also can't for the life of me figure out why you'd give a saving throw to the Smoke Trap. It mirrors an existing ability that doesn't have one, and already has the flaw of requiring a throw to keep them apart.

[R1ncewind]

I tried I really tried to give feedback, but I feel like in the end it wasn't just me that wasn't heard, it was 90% of the feedback.
This tree manages to end up worse than preview 2 and the T5 worse than the first preview (and second)
**** I miss Lich

Can you at least remove the light armor requirement of the Capstone of tempest plz? so we can still use this as a 3° tree for medium armor tempest build?

[Assassination]

Still really like this archetype's features. Still confused why evasion was removed from a character that is more sneaky than a regular ranger.

Still mystified at this tree that has been created. Way to triple down on this bad tree, impressive, most impressive.

[Aelonwy]

You didn't listen to feedback from preview 2, if a more rogue-like ranger looses evasion for medium armor prof that goes UNSUPPORTED for most of the class and enhancements... what is the point? Seriously, what is the point of the archetype? And what is the point of giving feedback that's being ignored?

This tree and rogue skills are not worth loosing evasion, and definitely not worth loosing most of my Favored Enemy feats in addition to loosing evasion.

As far as I can tell its worse than a traditional rogue/ranger multi-class... and if you have to multi-class the archetype to get evasion then it doesn't even have the ability to stay pure going for it.

Typically Ranger's get evasion at 9th level, right? How about instead of auto-granting evasion at 9th make the archetype DH choose between Evasion or Med Prof at 9th level like a class feat selection.

Then most of us can play this archetype like a ranger and those that want some tougher? barbarian-esque version of ranger can choose what you guys seem to prefer.

[Duhboy]

What the hell is "Cull the Weak"?

[Firebreed]

What the hell is "Cull the Weak"?

We've been asking that question for 3 previews now.

[Deivonte]

Dark Hunter is a new Ranger Archetype with themes of Assassination, sneaking, hunting, trapmaking, scavenging, and throwing weapons.

Feats and Features This Archetype Gets (that base Ranger does not):

• Trapfinding (1)
• Trap Making (3)
• Trap Sense +1 (3, 6, 9, 12, 15, 18) (same as rogue and barbarian)
• Sneak Attack 1d6 (1, 5, 10, 15, 20) (every 5 levels instead of every 2, means they get half of the sneak attack dice as Rogue does, 5d6 instead of 10d6)
• Medium Armor Proficiency (1)

[/LIST]

Looks like accelerate is an auto-granted feat that is not listed in notes.

[Aelonwy]

We've been asking that question for 3 previews now.

Yep and the fact it hasn't been answered yet isn't a good indication that they are reading.

[Xgya]

You didn't listen to feedback from preview 2, if a more rogue-like ranger looses evasion for medium armor prof that goes UNSUPPORTED for most of the class and enhancements... what is the point? Seriously, what is the point of the archetype? And what is the point of giving feedback that's being ignored?

This tree and rogue skills are not worth loosing evasion, and definitely not worth loosing most of my Favored Enemy feats in addition to loosing evasion.

As far as I can tell its worse than a traditional rogue/ranger multi-class... and if you have to multi-class the archetype to get evasion then it doesn't even have the ability to stay pure going for it.

The silly part about losing Evasion is their specific Enhancement tree gives more bonuses to Reflex saves than any other heroic tree on the market. (the second best is Bombardier)
Pick a lane already!

That Ranger keeps the melee-centered tree that has 3 Enhancements specifying Light Armor. The other tree this archetype has access to mentions Light Armor in three of its own.
This one mentions Medium Armor twice. The Medium Armor Archetype has 6 abilities keyed to Light Armor, and two to Medium.
It'd be funny if it wasn't so sad.

[lain5246]

You didn't listen to feedback from preview 2, if a more rogue-like ranger looses evasion for medium armor prof that goes UNSUPPORTED for most of the class and enhancements... what is the point? Seriously, what is the point of the archetype? And what is the point of giving feedback that's being ignored?

This tree and rogue skills are not worth loosing evasion, and definitely not worth loosing most of my Favored Enemy feats in addition to loosing evasion.

As far as I can tell its worse than a traditional rogue/ranger multi-class... and if you have to multi-class the archetype to get evasion then it doesn't even have the ability to stay pure going for it.

Typically Ranger's get evasion at 9th level, right? How about instead of auto-granting evasion at 9th make the archetype DH choose between Evasion or Med Prof at 9th level like a class feat selection.

Then most of us can play this archetype like a ranger and those that want some tougher? barbarian-esque version of ranger can choose what you guys seem to prefer.

I would disagree. Evasion is not everything and to be honest having medium armor makes tempest more attractive. The fact that developers are making improvements to medium armor users is refreshing. Though you want to say medium armor is not supported than aside from this Archetype you have barbarian, enlighten spirit, eldrich knight, artificer, and war chanter. If you need Evasion so bad don't play this Archetype or join the furry club.

[Dandonk]

I still don't see any way I'd ever use this tree over the tempest + DWS combo for a melee ranger. If you want a TWF DH to use this tree, put the crit range in core at 12.

The "I'm very sneaky but I run in medium armor and don't have evasion" is pretty strange.

Until the AI gets better, the pet is still a waste of AP.

Using bottles to throw healing seems to be done just to be different. I don't really see what it adds to the identity of the class.

I like the idea of a dark hunter, but this is all over the place. Decide if it's sneaky or not, and make the DH tree actually worth taking.

Edit: I'm not opposed to this being medium armor. Medium armor is fine. But then support it somehow, and have less focus on the sneaky parts that seems at odds with the heavier armor.

[lain5246]

The silly part about losing Evasion is their specific Enhancement tree gives more bonuses to Reflex saves than any other heroic tree on the market. (the second best is Bombardier)
Pick a lane already!

That Ranger keeps the melee-centered tree that has 3 Enhancements specifying Light Armor. The other tree this archetype has access to mentions Light Armor in three of its own.
This one mentions Medium Armor twice. The Medium Armor Archetype has 6 abilities keyed to Light Armor, and two to Medium.
It'd be funny if it wasn't so sad.

Hey you will still not hate your evasion build when you take 2 rogue

[Firebreed]

Yep and the fact it hasn't been answered yet isn't a good indication that they are reading.

I think most of us are pretty disillusioned to the fact that most feedback goes unread/ignored by whoever has the power to use said feedback constructively. For my part, the reason I comment on bugs/issues that I feel should be addressed is just so that the ball leaves my court and enters theirs. But make no mistake, I don't actually expect them to throw the ball back.

[spifflove]

If you need Evasion so bad don't play this Archetype.

Basically this unless you are a 6 split or a hair ball.

[Aelonwy]

I would disagree. Evasion is not everything and to be honest having medium armor makes tempest more attractive. The fact that developers are making improvements to medium armor users is refreshing. Though you want to say medium armor is not supported than aside from this Archetype you have barbarian, enlighten spirit, eldrich knight, artificer, and war chanter. If you need Evasion so bad don't play this Archetype or join the furry club.

I'm saying medium prof is NOT well supported in DH tree or by this class... if you need to multiclass to get support for a class/archetype feature because it is not well supported in and of itself that is an issue.

Evasion is not everything but for a sneaky, dodgy, high-ref, mostly dex focused class evasion is superior to med armor furthermore, light armor prof is far more supported by the other enhancements available to rangers including DH.

You want med? fine. I want evasion. Both should be fine, if they take the suggestion to force a class feat choice at level 9. It does NOT have to be that only one of us can be satisfied.

[WiseFreelancer]

I am not going to be as defeatist as other posters.

I like the concept of the tree. I agree Medium Armour is interesting and different (if a little a-thematic). And I think some feedback has been listened to (very happy to see AP reduced in some Tier 5s).

So my feedback on the latest round:

-Multi-selector on Blade Specialisation at least lets you go DH/Temp rather than requiring DH/DW (or VKF) to get anywhere. Would prefer both in DH given it requires Tier 5, but still a big improvement to build options.

-Dropping Blind for Entangle/Snare is thematic and welcome. But practically, not sure how we use that effectively in higher content? Entangle and Snare DCs will be laughable on a Ranger (max caster DC 14 + Wis mod?), so you're using the one trap in the tree. What would be interesting is letting us use Assassinate DCs in place of spell DCs on these spells, or giving us an Entangle SLA with the tree's Assassinate DC instead? That would give the tree a unique identity as a CC melee tree, and potentially benefit the survivability of a dog.

-Still think the assassinate ability could afford to let you hit any FE, rather than just the tree's FEs, so it plays nice with enhancements and destinies. But failing that, PLEASE give us just a couple more options so there's some level of choice in your FEs. Last time I checked there were a lot of dwarves in the underdark, can we at least have dwarf FE?