U58 Preview 3: Dark Hunter Ranger Archetype

[Fisto_Mk_I]

i would bring back the stealth ranged assassinate.

Hunt's end + Sniper shot. What else you need?

Ranged assassinate?

[Tilomere]

Can you consolidate transmutation DCs to land entangle with assassinate DCs?

Otherwise gearing an assassinate + transmutation + wisdom + melee build requires too many cross stats and enhancements.

Wisdom to MRR in medium armor to c5 as well, or some spell damage protection scattered through tree. Otherwise low reflex, non-evasion,-non-tanky melee is going to get eaten by AoE spell damage.

Due to needing falconry for 2ndary tree like HeM, this tree will operate without a crit range, which means it is basically going to suck.

However, the higher base trapping/sneak/imbue die means it is going to make a fantastic inquisitor splash.

[Mamalian]

[QUOTE=xaxaeb;6570934]

Oh yeah.... because the 10k dmg it's gonna do on R10 will insta-kill everything.....
Don't just balance everything for Epic Hard like devs do.

I'm close to killing anything in R10 now and my archer is not the most ubber build out there.

[elvesunited]

If your ranger archer .....

Gets evasion from splashing rogue or monk or is willing to tough it out until level 26 and get it through Shadowdancer
Does not use arcane archer ( common for horizons and deepwoods )
And does not mind the restricted favored enemy list too much.

Then Dark Hunter is free sneak attack dice, trap saves and the ability to pick locks.
( technically disarm traps but I think your skill won't be high enough for most endgame traps )
So I suspect many archers will be tempted to go Dark Hunter.

[Xgya]

"Update 58: Unlikely Heroes arrives this week! We'll have downtime information on Tuesday for our Wednesday release."

Guess any hope anyone else had to see this tree fit its own theme better are out the window.

[Oliphant]

If you were 13 rogue - 6 Ranger - 1 Barb or something DWS HW before, will this be better or worse? Maybe a year ago I was able to put that together and squeeze every possible AP without a possible point to spare to snag the AA T4 elemental +dice without losing any other dps goodies. Now I guess I'd skip the AA booster if it costs 4 AP out of a Wood Elf tree. Feels more conventional to spend on other stuff anyway when doing DWS HW. A few extra sneak dice are intriguing. I wonder how these sneak attack builds are stacking up against imbue builds. I've been done with ranged lives on my main for a while, will be fun to try ranged dps again. Don't know if the lore semantics make perfect sense but the idea of a Medium Armor or Evasion trade-off is pretty classic thing I deal with; fairly equal but a little different.

[unbongwah]

If you were 13 rogue - 6 Ranger - 1 Barb or something DWS HW before, will this be better or worse?

Probably better: you get +2d6 sneak attacks free from Dark Hunter levels; and since Disable & Open Lock are DH class skills, it's easier to maintain them. Plus not getting Evasion from Dark Hunter doesn't matter when you can get Improved Evasion from rogue 10+. You miss out on AA imbues unless you go elf, obviously, but do you really have the APs to spare for it?

41 APs Horizon Walker (tier-5s + capstone)
23 APs Deepwood Stalker (Sniper Shot + Killer)
11 APs Vistani Knife Fighter (FE Undead, Haste Boost, +5% Doubleshot)
3 APs Acrobat (Fast Movement)
2 APs Falconry (FE Animal)

Plus whatever extra racial APs you have.

You can drop DWS down to 11 APs to keep Sniper Shot and shift them into Dark Hunter (extra sneak attacks, Bleed the Weak) and/or Assassin (Venomed Blades, +3 Imbue dice, Assassin's Trick).

[tsotate]

You can drop DWS down to 11 APs to keep Sniper Shot and shift them into Dark Hunter (extra sneak attacks, Bleed the Weak) and/or Assassin (Venomed Blades, +3 Imbue dice, Assassin's Trick).

This sort of feels like the theme of a lot of the new archetypes -- the best way to build them is to either completely ignore their trees, or grab only the lowest-hanging fruit.

[Saekee]

so this is a done deal now?

[Aelonwy]

This sort of feels like the theme of a lot of the new archetypes -- the best way to build them is to either completely ignore their trees, or grab only the lowest-hanging fruit.

Noticed this myself. Seems like such a waste of time and effort.

[SilentRunning]

Aelonwy

Noticed this myself. Seems like such a waste of time and effort.

Nobody is forcing you to play these archetypes.

[HailBlazR]

Nobody is forcing you to play these archetypes.

And we probably won't, but we still have a right to criticize bad ideas where we see them. Not sure what your point is here.

[Qeistalan]

And we probably won't, but we still have a right to criticize bad ideas where we see them. Not sure what your point is here.

+1

Yet another dev short-sighted decision to entirely eliminate Evasion from DH archetype; should have selector for Evasion or Medium armor (L9 or whatever lvl works best).

[SilentRunning]

https://srd.dndtools.org/srd/classes...arkHunter.html

Oh my, what an oversight, NO EVASION in the list.

@HailBlazr

I thought my point was quite clear, or are you having a problem understanding what I wrote?

[Xgya]

https://srd.dndtools.org/srd/classes...arkHunter.html

Oh my, what an oversight, NO EVASION in the list.

That's such a sad argument.
Do notice that this class cannot wield weapons or armor. At all.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Dark hunters gain no proficiency with any weapon or armor.

Yet this archetype somehow can use bows and swords just fine, and even wield medium armor!
Is THAT an oversight?
Or could it just be that the class as designed assumes people entering it will already have a few class features from elsewhere that aren't on that table? (such as evasion, or weapon proficiencies?)

[donblas]

That's such a sad argument.
Do notice that this class cannot wield weapons or armor. At all.


Yet this archetype somehow can use bows and swords just fine, and even wield medium armor!
Is THAT an oversight?
Or could it just be that the class as designed assumes people entering it will already have a few class features from elsewhere that aren't on that table? (such as evasion, or weapon proficiencies?)

It could be that DHs don't get any extra proficiencies over and above those that all Rangers get.

[Xgya]

It could be that DHs don't get any extra proficiencies over and above those that all Rangers get.

That's mostly the point people are bringing up.

In DDO, a "Knight of the Chalice" is a base Paladin, that has everything the base Paladin has, but then also gets the quirks unique to KotC.

If Dark Hunters were in the "doesn't get anything beyond what Rangers normally get" category, they'd get Evasion. They wouldn't get MORE Evasion than Rangers normally get any more than, as you said, they don't get any extra proficiencies beyond what all Rangers get.

When somebody comes over and says "that table represents all that this character should have", I felt obliged to point out this isn't a base class, that it should have abilities of the base class somewhere in there. I tried to make it obvious by pointing at the proficiencies line.

[SilentRunning]

Xgya

That's such a sad argument.
Do notice that this class cannot wield weapons or armor. At all.

Quote Originally Posted by SRD
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Dark hunters gain no proficiency with any weapon or armor.
Yet this archetype somehow can use bows and swords just fine, and even wield medium armor!

Is THAT an oversight?
Or could it just be that the class as designed assumes people entering it will already have a few class features from elsewhere that aren't on that table? (such as evasion, or weapon proficiencies?)

Did you also read or are you only seeing those things YOU want to see like usual.

From that link: Rangers are the most likely characters to become dark hunters. Druids, rogues, and fighters are also common, in other words they don't get many OTHER special proficiencies other than what the base class usually gets, but they get some differences, or did you not happen understand that?

Yet here you are telling others that what they say is a sad argument when you don't even do your own research, that what is sad here.

[Elfshire]

Now that I can actually build a Lv 1 Dark Hunter in the Builder, I'm rather cheesed to realize that for all 3 previews, the notes have said ranger is losing:

All Favored Enemy feats that are not: Vermin, Elf, Aberration, Animal, Humanoid, Monstrous Humanoid

When really they meant to say HUMANS. Not humanoids. That means there's only six choices, period. What?? I can hunt Beholders, but not kobolds or goblins?

[Krelar]

Did you also read or are you only seeing those things YOU want to see like usual.

From that link: Rangers are the most likely characters to become dark hunters. Druids, rogues, and fighters are also common, in other words they don't get many OTHER special proficiencies other than what the base class usually gets, but they get some differences, or did you not happen understand that?

Yet here you are telling others that what they say is a sad argument when you don't even do your own research, that what is sad here.

So what part of the description says that when a ranger decides to become one they suddenly lose evasion?