Post your Heroic XP rants here!

[thegreatcthulhu]

Heh.... I am probably in the minority here, but whatever -

I would be willing to buy something more expensive than the sovereign potions (I.E. the stones by themselves at a discounted price; the boxes IMO are not a good deal due to the extra junk and redundant pet) if it meant having to spend less weeks TRing. I know most people are probably looking for something to mitigate what is already there without having to pay a ton of money. But I'm weird and hey, my wallet is open.

I know Sev is going to be looking at people like me and say: "But you might get bored and leave sooner and I don't want to lose you as a player when you may stick around and buy some more stuff. And cash is tight right now and I need to focus on LOTRO so just deal with it till I have more flexibility". So yeah, I understand. But look my job is getting busy, I am nearly recovering from head trauma (I had a concussion 2 years ago and this game helped me deal with that btw). So, I don't know if I can keep playing like the way I was in 2022. If they can help me experience having a "complete character" sooner, I'm definitely down for ponying up the cost. Otherwise, I may have to just write off DDO as a sunk cost at some point and say I enjoyed what I could. But again, I would have been willing to pay to see the end faster if the option was there (and reasonably priced).

[Diracorvus]

If this is about fun then it would be great if we could choose our heroic past life feat like we can epic past life feats when reincarnating. Then we could just always play the classes that are most fun to us. Playing should never feel like a grind.

[TitusOvid]

If this is about fun then it would be great if we could choose our heroic past life feat like we can epic past life feats when reincarnating. Then we could just always play the classes that are most fun to us. Playing should never feel like a grind.

On the one had I like this on the other I don't.
I don't like to be pressured into playing something I don't like. On the other I do enjoy screwing around with a class so that it fits my playstyle. Since that is possible in most cases (for me at least) I'd say no this in the end.

But I kind of feel pressured to do Sagas and therefore special quests. And I am missing out on some fun quests that are not Saga ones. Like someone else said, I run a different set of quests every life but I do end up doing most sagas anyway. Maybe there is a different way to fill those? I am conflicted though because I like the concept behind a saga. Maybe get rid of the xp reward and give is some rare augment or the like.

Cheers,
Titus

[Sylvado]

I am with you on that grindy feeling. Levels 11 to 17 are just so freaking long and boring. Granted I am a casual player but when I play I play efficiently and unless I am willing to grind the hell out of a couple of quests to try and speed things up (boring) it just feels like WORK not a game.

I don't understand why the XP changes still in this day and age. Epic TR's are the same XP regardless of how many times you have been to 30, it's time for heroic to get the same treatment. I say make it an even 2 million XP and call it a day. Honestly I could care less about the hardcore "experience" or "rewards" any more it's just so... too much and too often but I still find myself playing on HC over my actual server because the leveling is at a rate that I can actually feel a sense of advancement.

Considering that 1-20 grind it for Heroics and Racials and they are exclusive dropping it a bit would be a really good idea IMHO particularly for those who solo

I am currently running a test on my home server for next HC season. I want to see how quickly I can do 20/1750 at low risk then have a crafter for a favor run. I am an average player, if that, and playing solo with no buffs or gear other than House P, on Hard, at 2 over, for low risk. 11 to 17 is about 16 hours of play time.

[LightBear]

I always find myself in sort of a dip in certain level ranges (8-9, 13-14 and 19) where there isn't as much xp compared to other levels.
And there is a trend to have more lengthy arcs and lower the xp per quest and for the arc.

And yes, I can optimise my runs by doing the same few quests on a loop.
But that isn't as much fun as diverseing things up more.

[gravisrs]

for weekend warriors such as myself it would make it feel alot more rewarding to play. I feel the pacing is much much slower than epics, even epics who dont have first time benefits.

ESO has a nice system of gaining the daily "green" XP bar that stacks. Up to 6 days or so.

If you don't play for a day or two you get a special XP boost (+100%) till you fill that "missed" daily XP budget. It could be lvl based like 50% of your current lvlup XP.


We had XP budget systems in DDO back in the days (negative XP after dying that you slowly regain in tavern) so this could be easy to implement.

[erethizon]

Maybe Legendary Races that start at 20 or 25 and have to go to level 40 to obtain a racial past life and class past life might be easier than rebuilding the current system with the same racial past life and heroic class benefit?

This would also allow those who do not like heroics to enjoy epic content more

Not a bad idea. It's essentially a higher level Iconic. Certainly doesn't hurt to have both.

I will say, if you do make it possible to do 2 or 3 past lives at once while doubling or tripling the experience, please allows us to pick which lives we are getting. Rather than automatically getting 1 heroic and 1 racial it would be more ideal to get a list like in epic past lives where we can pick things. I don't necessarily mean we can pick past lives for classes or races we didn't play, but getting to pick two of the same heroic past life or two or three of the same racial past life would be better than automatically getting one of each (since the player may already be done with one or the other of the class and race).

[erethizon]

I'd like to see XP distributed better within quests and other places. I think part of what makes it feel grindy for me is that you only are getting significant XP when you get to the end of the quest. So essentially you don't feel incentivized to stay in the quest and do objectives all the time you spend playing feels like your wasting time unless your rushing as fast as you can to the end. I would like to see more rewards given out while playing rather than just lump sum at the end of quests. In a way the current system is kind of like the more you play the less you get.

And this is especially true since experience is the most common reward and is plentiful in supply. There are so many quests, and so little experience required to level, that skipping optionals is just a good idea. The more optionals you skip, the more quests you can run before you cap and the more favor you can get as a result. Getting more favor is actually rewarded while getting more experience means nothing because you eventually will be capped and throwing away all the experience you get every quest anyway (as everyone that has ever played at cap can attest).

I suppose if there was dynamic favor, rather than static favor, so you could actually get more favor for doing optionals rather than just getting a set amount for your first elite/reaper completion, there might be a point in doing optionals. Currently rushing to the end is the only way to go if you are playing for favor (which is always what I focus on because focusing on experience would just cause me to skip two-thirds of the game every life).

[ranthrock]

I really like the idea of the 'double up' life. It would take some work as it's counter to our current system (as this would be something at the start of a life vs at the end). Again, not committing to anything, but I'll bring this up.

Also, when we look into the reaper changes, re-visiting the reward vs challenge, especially for pre-legendary levels will be discussed.

Keep those ideas flowing. I love reading all the feedback, especially when you all keep it in a positive light looking towards the future.


And yes, I've already thought of a way we could do the 'double life'.

For those of us who did all our class lives first and are now working on racials, could we have an option for a double life to be 2xClass, 2xRace, or 1 of each?

(BTW, the way that iconics get 1 class and 1 ETR seemed pretty nice to me, thanks for implementing that, btw)

[erethizon]

I would be down for this "Double Life" thing as well as honestly one of the main reasons I always burn out is the constant gear roulette that comes with the fast leveling in heroics.
I definitely don't think it should take longer to reach level 20 as there's already so many past-lives to get with more constantly being added, but if you could knock out two lives at once then that would give us the benefits of leveling slowly, but keep the rewards the same. My only worry would be whether there are enough quests to do for first time bonus.

I usually go from level 1 to 20 (i.e. 3.8 million experience) running heroic only quests (meaning nothing that has an epic or legendary option). Given that there are more quests with epic/legendary options than ones without, I am quite confident you could get 7.2 million experience with just first time bonus and maybe even 11.4 million. There are currently far, far too many quests to play them all in heroics. I never TR when I get to 20, even though I am done with epic past lives, because there are simply too many quests left to play. I either have to play most of them double capped in heroics for zero experience or I play until I get to level 32 and do them for zero experience there (but much more RXP).

[erethizon]

I am conflicted though because I like the concept behind a saga. Maybe get rid of the xp reward and give is some rare augment or the like.

Yes, please! I always end up picking the tome and grinding it into shards I will never use because Saga Exp is worthless to me. There are far too many quests for the amount of experience needed. The last thing I need is more experience.

I am not saying to remove experience, but please add something of actual value to the saga reward list. A rare augment (or even common, but useful augments like heavy fort, underwater action, feather fall, blindness immunity, etc.) would be great. Perhaps give us a token that can be used at an augment vendor to buy an augment with instead of shards.

[mpetrarca]

...and this is why power creep and nerfing is constant, subpar players crying. Don't like the grind, then online games might not be for you. DDO has 708 quest and 50 wilderness areas to get XP, there is more XP in the game then you need. I once was all for a megaserver, now I think DDO needs 2 servers, one for gamers and one for the rest.

[Malveaux]

...and this is why power creep and nerfing is constant, subpar players crying. Don't like the grind, then online games might not be for you. DDO has 708 quest and 50 wilderness areas to get XP, there is more XP in the game then you need. I once was all for a megaserver, now I think DDO needs 2 servers, one for gamers and one for the rest.

Yes one for sweaties and one for people that just want to have fun in a not so serious way. But no matter how much you sweat the toxins out. There is still toxins there. Sounds like a fun server.

[ahpook]

For those of us who did all our class lives first and are now working on racials, could we have an option for a double life to be 2xClass, 2xRace, or 1 of each?

(BTW, the way that iconics get 1 class and 1 ETR seemed pretty nice to me, thanks for implementing that, btw)

Based on the original suggestion, this would be less efficient. It would be better to run the best quests over 2 lives rather than milk more quests to get double Heroic XP for reincarnation. The only "benefit" would be you would be encouraged to run the less rewarding quests and you can already choose to do that on your second life. If SSG were to consider that idea, the first feedback they would get is that it should take less than double XP to get the 2 PLs.

If this is about fun then it would be great if we could choose our heroic past life feat like we can epic past life feats when reincarnating. Then we could just always play the classes that are most fun to us. Playing should never feel like a grind.

As with other posters, I am torn about getting a PL for a class you haven't played. I would compromise and allow a PL to be chosen for any class with 5 levels or more so you can get a PL for a splash class.

[LightBear]

And yes, I've already thought of a way we could do the 'double life'.

On a positive note, sadly there isn't enough heroic xp to reach 7.6 million.
If you do everything on R1 once there is 6.3 million xp* and this includes raids.
And that is for VIPs only, voice of the master and big guild but without xp pots.
No one is going to include raids in their reliable setup of xp trains for heroics.

* Came to this number by multiplying the base elite xp for a quest with a factor of 6.
Which includes :

1.00 Base
1.00 BB
0.95 First
0.50 Tome
0.25 Daily
0.10 Persist
0.10 Flawless
0.10 Kills
0.08 Breakables
-------
5.08 Subbed


0.05 Xpstone
0.05 Guild
0.10 VIP
-----
0.20 Sub+


Factor of 6

[ahpook]

On a positive note, sadly there isn't enough heroic xp to reach 7.6 million.
If you do everything on R1 once there is 6.3 million xp* and this includes raids.
And that is for VIPs only, voice of the master and big guild but without xp pots.
No one is going to include raids in their reliable setup of xp trains for heroics.

* Came to this number by multiplying the base elite xp for a quest with a factor of 6.
Which includes :

1.00 Base
1.00 BB
0.95 First
0.50 Tome
0.25 Daily
0.10 Persist
0.10 Flawless
0.10 Kills
0.08 Breakables
-------
5.08 Subbed


0.05 Xpstone
0.05 Guild
0.10 VIP
-----
0.20 Sub+


Factor of 6

You should probably include Explorers and Sagas though. But even then, it would be slower than running 2 heroic lives. It would likely have to be 1.5X XP to be comparable and not 2X.

[axel15810]

Wish I could play as whatever build I wanted in heroics without having to play a certain class for the past life. It's the biggest turn off for me when it comes to heroic TR and the main reason I don't do it. I know it's a staple of the system but nevertheless it's the main reason I don't participate in it and likely never will. When they stripped the destiny requirements of epic TR it made it much more enjoyable for me and got me to get on the epic TR train again. Epic TR is a blast now, it's so much more fun without karma requirements. Would be nice if the requirement could be removed for heroics as well and just let us take whatever past life we want regardless of the build we're playing. Even if it's paywalled like the wish for memories is for racial TR that'd be OK by me. Just don't force me to play 11 levels of X class I have no interest in playing.

[Ereshkigal]

On a positive note, sadly there isn't enough heroic xp to reach 7.6 million.
If you do everything on R1 once there is 6.3 million xp* and this includes raids.
And that is for VIPs only, voice of the master and big guild but without xp pots.
No one is going to include raids in their reliable setup of xp trains for heroics.

* Came to this number by multiplying the base elite xp for a quest with a factor of 6.
Which includes :

1.00 Base
1.00 BB
0.95 First
0.50 Tome
0.25 Daily
0.10 Persist
0.10 Flawless
0.10 Kills
0.08 Breakables
-------
5.08 Subbed


0.05 Xpstone
0.05 Guild
0.10 VIP
-----
0.20 Sub+


Factor of 6

by double life, didn't they just mean something like Iconic but for legendary levels instead of epic -- (call this mythic so i can type less here)

So grabbing a mythic race, starting at level 20, going to level 40, then doing a Mythic reincarnation would get you say, for example, 2 past life feats ( thus the 'double life expression ) - 1 Mythic past life feat, and 1 epic past life feat. leaving you at level 20, so you could theoretically do a heroic reincarnation as well, if you wanted, or race back to 40 and do another Mythic one.

[Oxarhamar]

by double life, didn't they just mean something like Iconic but for legendary levels instead of epic -- (call this mythic so i can type less here)

So grabbing a mythic race, starting at level 20, going to level 40, then doing a Mythic reincarnation would get you say, for example, 2 past life feats ( thus the 'double life expression ) - 1 Mythic past life feat, and 1 epic past life feat. leaving you at level 20, so you could theoretically do a heroic reincarnation as well, if you wanted, or race back to 40 and do another Mythic one.

Nah it was getting heroic & racial at once for twice the xp

If heroic is too grindy which I don’t agree this will be much worse

[Wizard1406]

Wish I could play as whatever build I wanted in heroics without having to play a certain class for the past life. It's the biggest turn off for me when it comes to heroic TR and the main reason I don't do it. I know it's a staple of the system but nevertheless it's the main reason I don't participate in it and likely never will. When they stripped the destiny requirements of epic TR it made it much more enjoyable for me and got me to get on the epic TR train again. Epic TR is a blast now, it's so much more fun without karma requirements. Would be nice if the requirement could be removed for heroics as well and just let us take whatever past life we want regardless of the build we're playing. Even if it's paywalled like the wish for memories is for racial TR that'd be OK by me. Just don't force me to play 11 levels of X class I have no interest in playing.

Yeah I'm glad I'm done with heroic completionist and only fun classes left for doubling or tripling up if I feel like it.

Melee can be played as any class (some class enhancement trees are not great but workable)
Ranged with the 6 ranger / 6 rogue / 8x inquisitive template

Caster cannot be played with like half of the classes though (9 caster/ 11 x, just doesn't work....too few caster levels and spells), so I had to do quite a few less fun lives.

Epic rework was awesome for epic TR. Still you run out of first time xp bonuses after a few lives and it would be better to TR again