Fix the preselected character paths and your server population will grow.

[Ereshkigal]

I see soooo many new players all the time. I feel like for every one I see there's probably at least hundreds that I do not.

I recruit for my guild and when i am playing with these new players, the biggest complaint is how weak they feel.

These people almost always have chosen a crappy preselected character path.

Why not fix them? Is growing server populations unimportant?

There's also no need to have so many paths, if it would be too much work. Maybe just make 4? 1 melee cleric, 1 arcane caster blaster, 1 ranged build with trappy skills, and 1 melee build.

Additionally, might be nice if one of the starter quests had an NPC invite the new player aboard a NPC guild ship with maxed out bonuses, just so a new player might see the benefit of looking for a guild. I feel like a new player that's in a guild will have a much higher chance of not being overwhelmed by the game, or disappointed by the results of their lack of how to build a character. The new player experience should gently nudge new players towards trying out guilds - or maybe not-so-gently shove them in that direction.

[Firebreed]

I agree that this should be of higher priority than it currently seems to be.

[DoctorOfLiterature]

Good ideas op.

For guilds, all guilds could have a setting to be open to new members. When new character are created they could be randomly assigned one of these open/recruiting guilds.

[KoobTheProud]

I have no idea what SSG pays the streamers that regularly stream DDO, probably nothing beyond access to behind the scenes information.

However it would make good sense to pay them at least a nominal sum to redo the character paths as part of the streaming process. This would both rebuild the presets and provide probably very interesting content as we do that.

Strimtom and Voodu would be naturals and there are probably a couple of other regular streamers who would be good also.

[mbartol]

I forget how many years ago, but when Lynabel was first hired on (maybe even when still an intern), he was engaging with Five Foot Step over on the vault to hammer out basic/generic first life builds for each enhancement tree/path across a few different classes. They even included some tweaks based on different races.

Though it would be difficult to keep them updated, a new baseline would do wonders for any new players that choose the default route.

[Aelonwy]

I forget how many years ago, but when Lynabel was first hired on (maybe even when still an intern), he was engaging with Five Foot Step over on the vault to hammer out basic/generic first life builds for each enhancement tree/path across a few different classes. They even included some tweaks based on different races.

Though it would be difficult to keep them updated, a new baseline would do wonders for any new players that choose the default route.

I vaguely remember something about that... what happened with it? Did it not get finished? Pushed down from priority and never returned to it?

Couldn't they just get some player submissions and then decide what to go with or even have a couple choices and have the players vote? The game is built for customization but to have just a handful of get-started-options for new players to get to know the game comfortably and without pitfalls would be truly worthwhile.

[C-Dog]

The OP is asking for a massive increase in the existing workload for DDO staff.

Each template would have to be considered and possibly updated with each game update that affects that build.

Meanwhile, it would not be a guarantee to solve the problem - casual players could still get stuck with a recently changed build - and then what happens when the railroad tracks they've been on jump suddenly?

I agree 100% that the current ones suck - they should be greatly simplified so that they work without worrying about updates. But I'm not convinced that it's just as easy as that.

[YUTANG75]

Paths have been something to avoid since I joined... (checks notes) 12.5 years ago. Which seems like a long time for a crucial path of the first DDO experience to be basically universally perceived as poorly executed...

Realistically at most, we need one path per class (except for alch, arti and fvs) with no choice on which race you are. The path also dictates what the action points are spent on, you pick enhancements that aren't part of the path without abandoning the path. Additionally, you can't level up if you have 2 or more unspent action points.
I'm sure we, the DDO community, would be more than happy to design, review and submit builds and then vote for which ones to get added to the game.

Also, here's a crazy thought... could paths be implemented in a way similar to Archetypes?? Force an ability point distribution and greatly restrict the available race, feat, enhancement and skill options to force new players into working builds whilst also giving the illusion of choice.

[Ereshkigal]

The OP is asking for a massive increase in the existing workload for DDO staff.

Each template would have to be considered and possibly updated with each game update that affects that build.

Meanwhile, it would not be a guarantee to solve the problem - casual players could still get stuck with a recently changed build - and then what happens when the railroad tracks they've been on jump suddenly?

I agree 100% that the current ones suck - they should be greatly simplified so that they work without worrying about updates. But I'm not convinced that it's just as easy as that.

That's why i suggested limiting the number of paths to 4, that way the task of updating them whenever things are changed would be less cumbersome. There's no need to have a path for every class, much less multiple ones. They just need 1 for each playstyle, and approach the new player by asking about the playstyle they want to try, and dropping them into the appropriate path.

The difficulty of changing it is less expensive than the number of new players that are being driven away from the game.

[Captain_Wizbang]

most of us gave up on this.

[Coffey]

most of us gave up on this.

I have given up on this too and i have only been playing for a fraction of the time a lot of you have been playing.

The only thing i have heard about helping new players was from Severlin. It was the idea to have the party gain a percentage power from the stronger players. This sounds inconsistent to me but maybe worth a try. A new players progress would become reliant on that extra power though wouldnt it?

I dont think pathing would be difficult to update though.

[Captain_Wizbang]

I have given up on this too and i have only been playing for a fraction of the time a lot of you have been playing.

The only thing i have heard about helping new players was from Severlin. It was the idea to have the party gain a percentage power from the stronger players. This sounds inconsistent to me but maybe worth a try. A new players progress would become reliant on that extra power though wouldnt it?

I dont think pathing would be difficult to update though.

I watched that stream. Power sharing is a bad idea.

SSG has no incentive to spend the resources to dive in to old code to give us new competent pre-defined builds.

[Coffey]

If SSG does decide to fix the preselected character paths they may as well help with Action Points too. Some new players i have helped didnt know what enhancement trees are.

[droid327]

I think an easier and more holistic solution is to add a feature where you can import any build as a text code, and it follows it like a path....then builder apps could export the code and people could share it on various forums, or you could export your current build from the game at 20+

That would also make it far more painless to ETR and level back quickly

[Coffey]

I think an easier and more holistic solution is to add a feature where you can import any build as a text code, and it follows it like a path....then builder apps could export the code and people could share it on various forums, or you could export your current build from the game at 20+

That would also make it far more painless to ETR and level back quickly

This would be really helpful and a lot of fun for builders. The reincarnation process in its entirety is very cumbersome as it is.

[Scrag]

If we are talking full enhancement tree, stat pick, whathaveyou predefined builds, that is a horrid idea. Its good on the surface. But lets say someone actually plays one of those chars. They won't understand why it works, or if it suddenly stops, why it stopped. Laying groundwork for a noobs guide is a great idea, and easier to manage than to update things in the game itself which might end up being counterproductive.

My best experience with relearning to play has just been to read things in the Classes forums. People already have a lot of builds there, and by building it myself level by level, I can see how the parts work.

For instance, I am doing Strimtoms aoe cold sorcerer madness. I eventually got to a point where everything is just dead after one cone of cold, but before then it was a struggle to conserve spellpoints and use the right spell at the right time. As I leveled, I could immediately see when things were suddenly working better than before. It led me to change my enhancement pick order for things that were more useful but I didn't know at the time.

This taught me about spell power, how it scales damage (I could see enhancement point by point my damage going _up_), things to look for in gear (insightful potency, things like that).

Top to bottom, I feel I am learning more and having fun by cribbing than if I had a premade that I didn't really understand!

[Paladin_of_Power]

I have no idea what SSG pays the streamers that regularly stream DDO, probably nothing beyond access to behind the scenes information.

However it would make good sense to pay them at least a nominal sum to redo the character paths as part of the streaming process. This would both rebuild the presets and provide probably very interesting content as we do that.

Strimtom and Voodu would be naturals and there are probably a couple of other regular streamers who would be good also.

Now that is the best thing I’ve heard all day very good idea. Fix and help new players and stream content.

[cmecu]

I have no idea what SSG pays the streamers that regularly stream DDO, probably nothing beyond access to behind the scenes information.

However it would make good sense to pay them at least a nominal sum to redo the character paths as part of the streaming process. This would both rebuild the presets and provide probably very interesting content as we do that.

Strimtom and Voodu would be naturals and there are probably a couple of other regular streamers who would be good also.

It would be nice to get paid to stream from SSG but no.. that is something done for free, but can be rewarding by people subscribing, donating, cheering bits for the stream.

[Antheal]

I have no idea what SSG pays the streamers that regularly stream DDO, probably nothing beyond access to behind the scenes information.

However it would make good sense to pay them at least a nominal sum to redo the character paths as part of the streaming process. This would both rebuild the presets and provide probably very interesting content as we do that.

Strimtom and Voodu would be naturals and there are probably a couple of other regular streamers who would be good also.

Sure, until they create builds that require you to be triple-completionist and having +8 supreme tomes.

[Coffey]

If we are talking full enhancement tree, stat pick, whathaveyou predefined builds, that is a horrid idea. Its good on the surface. But lets say someone actually plays one of those chars. They won't understand why it works, or if it suddenly stops, why it stopped. Laying groundwork for a noobs guide is a great idea, and easier to manage than to update things in the game itself which might end up being counterproductive.

My best experience with relearning to play has just been to read things in the Classes forums. People already have a lot of builds there, and by building it myself level by level, I can see how the parts work.

Top to bottom, I feel I am learning more and having fun by cribbing than if I had a premade that I didn't really understand!

I share your enthusiasm for learning the game by actively playing and experimenting but i dont think many people have the patience to learn. Most just want to be able to pick a game up and start playing immediately and in this case some sort of vehicle to do that.