The Future Reaper Update

[ahpook]

Also would it be game breaking to throw them 10-20 reaper points?

I don't think it would be game breaking but it would tell you something is seriously messed up with how reaper is structured if that is required. It is supposed to be an optional challenge and not a required play style. Also I don't think new players need more configuration and character customization to deal with. Reaper should wait until they have some concept of the basics. If they roll a custom build and head into Reaper content without those 20 points they are going to wonder what they did wrong.

[Ereshkigal]

This is a really good point regarding the premade characters. Also would it be game breaking to throw them 10-20 reaper points? They could make a new account starter pack, obviously disabled on hc.

and add a quest to korthos that gives you xp for joining a guild... having people to ask questions of, even if you plan to solo a lot, is so important for new players.

[GoldyGopher]

well said.

as far as new players, i see a multitude of them on Argonessen, even when it's the default. Possibly because it has been known as the most populated server and a google search can tell you that, of course that may change now with the great server merge of 2023...

The biggest thing they complain about is feeling so weak compared to others when they group. Also, they are almost always using a preset path - and I think this is the reason why they feel gimped - because they are gimped by the presets, have zero gear yet, and have no game knowledge. Personally I think bad presets are worse than no preset and here's why:

Someone that's new - that makes a custom build - in a game that is obviously very complicated - then doesn't do well --- might consider doing more research and trying again.

Someone that's new - that uses a premade build - designed by the developers of the game - to make the game choices easier for new players - then doesn't do well - might be less likely to consider that doing research and making a custom build might make playing the game more enjoyable.


I truly believe we're chasing people off with a stick by giving brand new players broken builds to play with and telling them they're great for new players to try out until they learn the game better.

There's really no point in fixing anything else at all, until they remove the broken premade builds, otherwise the slow spiral of server populations will just continue south until there's nothing left.

/end rant

The believe that predefined characters are gimped/awful/just down right bad has been around since the level cap raised to 20, back in 2009.
I can tell you that improving predefined paths was talked about multiple times during my time on the Players' Council. Having lost a few players in my guild over time due to the problems with these paths I took an active roll in suggesting changes. I was told the cost in terms of development time was so high it would almost need to be the only thing worked on by the systems team for an entire update. I doubt that has changed.

[KoobTheProud]

The believe that predefined characters are gimped/awful/just down right bad has been around since the level cap raised to 20, back in 2009.
I can tell you that improving predefined paths was talked about multiple times during my time on the Players' Council. Having lost a few players in my guild over time due to the problems with these paths I took an active roll in suggesting changes. I was told the cost in terms of development time was so high it would almost need to be the only thing worked on by the systems team for an entire update. I doubt that has changed.

If it is true that it would take a quarterly cycle to fix then SSG should spend that cycle. Making DDO more welcoming and less confusing to new players should be job one. Period.

[Kelledren]

The believe that predefined characters are gimped/awful/just down right bad has been around since the level cap raised to 20, back in 2009.
I can tell you that improving predefined paths was talked about multiple times during my time on the Players' Council. Having lost a few players in my guild over time due to the problems with these paths I took an active roll in suggesting changes. I was told the cost in terms of development time was so high it would almost need to be the only thing worked on by the systems team for an entire update. I doubt that has changed.

I say addition by subtraction. How much investment would it take to remove them entirely and put a sign up that says “To learn how to properly build a character, go check out here, there, and over there” with links.

[Ereshkigal]

If it is true that it would take a quarterly cycle to fix then SSG should spend that cycle. Making DDO more welcoming and less confusing to new players should be job one. Period.

don't make one for every class. just 1 for each playstyle. like 4 should be enough. This would make it easier to maintain and update in the future as well.

[Ereshkigal]

I say addition by subtraction. How much investment would it take to remove them entirely and put a sign up that says “To learn how to properly build a character, go check out here, there, and over there” with links.

or add a quest to Korthos that gives a new player XP and favor for joining a real guild. Mention in the quest that guilds are great for solo players too, as they can share ideas, etc when not questing. Get them talking to people that have played for awhile and get some help before they get frustrated and bail.

[KoobTheProud]

don't make one for every class. just 1 for each playstyle. like 4 should be enough. This would make it easier to maintain and update in the future as well.

They used to have 3 that didn't work well for every class. I would settle for one that works well for every class. The point is to let new players acclimate to the game without building a moss-covered three handled family credenza in the process and walking away disappointed at level 10.

[Kelledren]

don't make one for every class. just 1 for each playstyle. like 4 should be enough. This would make it easier to maintain and update in the future as well.

I was going to say something like this- dps casters, melee, healers- but then you say have a bard- but maybe they get their own thing. Honestly it can just be handbook that says - melee dps: take your combat style feats, improved crit feat, any crit multipliers you can get, and as much to hit and damage as you can.
Maybe the little handbooks explain parts of builds that get confusing: how different channels stack; different spell power types, different stat types, or even spell level/max spell level etc. Anything that trips new players.

[GoldyGopher]

If it is true that it would take a quarterly cycle to fix then SSG should spend that cycle. Making DDO more welcoming and less confusing to new players should be job one. Period.

I say addition by subtraction. How much investment would it take to remove them entirely and put a sign up that says “To learn how to properly build a character, go check out here, there, and over there” with links.

don't make one for every class. just 1 for each playstyle. like 4 should be enough. This would make it easier to maintain and update in the future as well.

They used to have 3 that didn't work well for every class. I would settle for one that works well for every class. The point is to let new players acclimate to the game without building a moss-covered three handled family credenza in the process and walking away disappointed at level 10.

I was going to say something like this- dps casters, melee, healers- but then you say have a bard- but maybe they get their own thing. Honestly it can just be handbook that says - melee dps: take your combat style feats, improved crit feat, any crit multipliers you can get, and as much to hit and damage as you can.
Maybe the little handbooks explain parts of builds that get confusing: how different channels stack; different spell power types, different stat types, or even spell level/max spell level etc. Anything that trips new players.

During my time on the Players' Council I strongly recommended that the best thing to do was to reduce the number the predetermined paths to just be "Iconic" like builds from D&D at large and Eberron Lore. The idea in general was to give each of the free races three paths from among the free classes and Human to get a path for each of the free classes. A Dwarven Defender (Pally and Fighter Variant) and Wizard, an Elf Necromancer and Arcane Archer and Fighter, a Halfling Healer and Barbarian and so forth. These would be under a separate tab in the Character Create Screen (Melee, Spell Specialist, Iconic, and Paths) but it would need a better name.

To my understanding the problem is the underlying system that predetermined paths are built upon. To do it well would require scrapping the current system, which may leave some current builds in limbo. In the end it was strongly suggested that even though it sounds great, there are other things that have a higher priority to rebuilding the system it built upon.

[erethizon]

So I'm going to ask again: what was the point of putting in higher difficulty levels with built-in power creep?

Who thought this one up and why should anybody count on them to fix it?

Because obviously the next move is higher difficulty levels with built-in power creep.

/hamster jumps off the wheel

I can answer this one.

Virtually no one wants higher difficulty. More specifically, virtually no one wants higher difficulty that isn't rewarded.

For example, if you want higher difficulty you can design your character to be weaker. Weaker stats. Weaker gear. Countless options to make your character less effective. Almost no one does this. In fact, the same crowd that constantly complains about how easy the game is, actively cuts every corner they can to make the game as easy as possible. These are the people that find the safe spots in quests and min/max their characters to make them as powerful as possible.

So you have to understand, when someone says, "The game is too easy, it should be harder." What they actually mean is, "I want something more added to the game, that is more difficult, so that you have a reason to add even more power to the game so that I can get even stronger."

Once you realize what they really mean, Reaper makes total sense. It is more difficult while still making people even more powerful. It provides extra challenge and extra power because virtually no one wants extra challenge that does not also grant extra power (even though they don't normally say that last half out loud).