The Future Reaper Update

[elvesunited]

From the Severlin Q&A courtesy of Strimtom:

"Future reaper update is to remove reaper trees and replace with a scaling system that automatically applies bonuses based on reaper points acquired and gives bonuses at certain levels (think battle pass), that is also sharable."

So thoughts:

1) DDO updates are generally to add customization not take it away. Granted they did with pet upgrades but pets are so lackluster that a lot of people were just ignoring them anyway. This would be the first time I can think of where they take away something a lot of people use and replace it with a simplified, automatic version.

2) This potentially will badly hurt spell and tactical DC casters who rely on the extra stats and bonus DC to be effective in higher reaper content the worst. If every character gets the same bonuses it suggests those bonuses will be the generic bonuses that apply to all characters.

3) Players have put a lot of effort into their reaper points. So if this turns into a massive reaper nerf that will go over like a lead balloon with the most active players.


It's possible this could be done in a way that addresses these issues but this could also be disaster looming over the horizon.

[Eantarus]

This tells me I was right not to invest any time or energy in grinding reaper points.

[Oxarhamar]

From the Severlin Q&A courtesy of Strimtom:

"Future reaper update is to remove reaper trees and replace with a scaling system that automatically applies bonuses based on reaper points acquired and gives bonuses at certain levels (think battle pass), that is also sharable."

So thoughts:

1) DDO updates are generally to add customization not take it away. Granted they did with pet upgrades but pets are so lackluster that a lot of people were just ignoring them anyway. This would be the first time I can think of where they take away something a lot of people use and replace it with a simplified, automatic version.

2) This potentially will badly hurt spell and tactical DC casters who rely on the extra stats and bonus DC to be effective in higher reaper content the worst. If every character gets the same bonuses it suggests those bonuses will be the generic bonuses that apply to all characters.

3) Players have put a lot of effort into their reaper points. So if this turns into a massive reaper nerf that will go over like a lead balloon with the most active players.


It's possible this could be done in a way that addresses these issues but this could also be disaster looming over the horizon.

There is already a bunch of stuffs in reaper trees you just ignore it if it doesn’t apply to you unless you are required to spend points to get to the next tier

I imagine that instead of selecting stuff from trees it will just grant you stuff depending on reaper levels so DC casters should still get something they just won’t have to select it

Probably will be a big boost to hybrid builds

There isn’t much to say until we see it this has long been asked for some kind of sharing catch up mechanism

[Tyrande]

From the Severlin Q&A courtesy of Strimtom:

"Future reaper update is to remove reaper trees and replace with a scaling system that automatically applies bonuses based on reaper points acquired and gives bonuses at certain levels (think battle pass), that is also sharable."

So thoughts:

1) DDO updates are generally to add customization not take it away. Granted they did with pet upgrades but pets are so lackluster that a lot of people were just ignoring them anyway. This would be the first time I can think of where they take away something a lot of people use and replace it with a simplified, automatic version.

They have to do it because the reaper trees themselves proves to be a lag feast during dynamic calculations in terms of DCs and damage on the fly.
By making it automatic and static so that the calculations are faster. They observed that hardcore that does not have lag NOT because its a better "hardware" server.
Hardcore has more people and "no" lag because most people do not have past lives and reaper points. So by making those automatic, the lag will be "less", if not "gone". I am guessing this is part of the roadmap to address lag and performance.

2) This potentially will badly hurt spell and tactical DC casters who rely on the extra stats and bonus DC to be effective in higher reaper content the worst. If every character gets the same bonuses it suggests those bonuses will be the generic bonuses that apply to all characters.

I agree it will badly hurt spell and tactical DC casters from the surface. But the bonus are yet to be announced? Maybe its too early to tell?

3) Players have put a lot of effort into their reaper points. So if this turns into a massive reaper nerf that will go over like a lead balloon with the most active players.

80% of my characters are casters of some sort and I definitely sympathize.

It's possible this could be done in a way that addresses these issues but this could also be disaster looming over the horizon.

Note, they are also talking about combining those points across all servers and all characters.
Maybe they'll add up better than before when its automatic?

Also, there is the group/raid leader benefit of them sharing points?


Or maybe its +1 weapon attack, +1 weapon damage, +1 spell damage, +1 DC, +1 main stat, +1 spell penetration, +1 CON, +1 reflex, +1 dodge per <x> points so its generic as to not put any type of character in a disadvantage...

[Bacab]

Returning player here...back from a 2 year break.

I am happy how Epic Elite and Lower Reaper play now at 20+.

I also like the Epic Destiny changes.

I am curious if this simplification could go how the ED simplification went?

By changing it, they can re-balance the quests and the difficulty?

I used to hate Epics because stuff hit too hard or just generally had a bloat of HP because Epic Elite was based off you having every ED and Fate Points available to you.

Nothing like the first epic monster you fight, the Kobold at the beginning of Bargain of Blood having 10k HP and hitting for 150 a swat to remind you of the slog that Epic Elite is/was. While the same monster has 1k HP and hit for like 15 on Epic Hard.

Maybe this will be similar?

[Tyrande]

Returning player here...back from a 2 year break.

Welcome back!

[...]
I am curious if this simplification could go how the ED simplification went?

By changing it, they can re-balance the quests and the difficulty?

I think maybe you're onto something here.

I used to hate Epics because stuff hit too hard or just generally had a bloat of HP because Epic Elite was based off you having every ED and Fate Points available to you.

Like everyone was farming Impossible Demands, Epic Crucible and House Dun'robar (House of Rusted Blades) repeatedly for a few hours to fill their ED trees back then.

Nothing like the first epic monster you fight, the Kobold at the beginning of Bargain of Blood having 10k HP and hitting for 150 a swat to remind you of the slog that Epic Elite is/was. While the same monster has 1k HP and hit for like 15 on Epic Hard.

Maybe this will be similar?

Possibly. I "think" they want to keep the players playing, and of course make enough "slack" or "challenges" as necessary.
This is also to address the group of people who farm "Amber Temple" for RXP on R10 in like 5 minutes?

Please note that these opinions are my own and my observation.

[Wizard1406]

I would be really mad if this is a nerf of any sort. I worked hard to get my reaper points. So many many wipes and deaths (I'm no where close to the point where high or even mid reaper is "easy") and such a long time LFM.

I also completely max my defenses because I need them. Without trees the benefits would be automatically decided? I really hope they still give the same defenses and spell DCs (can never have enough spell DCs) and boosts.

If they do it right, veterans don't lose any power but newbies/intermediate players get a LOT of buffs from the share, so you can play reaper well in a group, no matter how many RP you personally have.

[archest]

kind of of takes away the choice of where your want your reaper enhancements in your build.

[Diracorvus]

Reaper trees need a nerf. People are already saying that reaper 10 is too easy. The nerf should be in the later points not the earlier ones though.
I hope they take this opportunity to also add diminishing returns to power gained from reaper points and then just make reaper points earnable without limit. Otherwise we will have this problem again in a few years.

[droid327]

Counterpoint. .maybe what needs rebalancing isn't reaper, but people's expectations...

R10 being standard operating difficulty for many parties suggests players have become overtuned. Especially since R10 often revolves around CCing everything to negate a lot of the challenge, which suggests it's those DC mechanics that are the fulcrum. If removing reaper trees forces everyone down a few skulls and makes R10 a legit challenge for well prepared full groups, then that sounds about right.

[mikarddo]

Hmm, it sounds like dangerous waters.

It is a simply fact that R10 questing has become too easy to be a real challenge. So maybe they are taking the opportunity to lower the max power from reaper trees - they give too many static HP mainly. But any reduction, even if good for that game, wont be well received, and taking away custimization is very anti-DDO.

I dont see any good way to do this to be honest.

[Airmaiden]

Be careful listening to ANYTHING about Reaper updates!

They have been saying stuff like this for 4 years now and the only thing they have done to reaper is nerf it (limiting HP/ Level).......which is fine.........but do not get your hopes up that they are going to do anything.


They just talk a little about it to keep you hoping, grinding and still playing this game!


Something should have been done 6 years ago like:

• Cap the reaper XP one can get on a toon OR state that reaper points above 156 will ONLY give you cosmetics
• Make more cosmetics for 100- 156
• Make reaper power ONLY count when in a reaper Quest.

[Wizard1406]

Reaper trees need a nerf. People are already saying that reaper 10 is too easy. The nerf should be in the later points not the earlier ones though.
I hope they take this opportunity to also add diminishing returns to power gained from reaper points and then just make reaper points earnable without limit. Otherwise we will have this problem again in a few years.

Just because the top 1% (?) of players think R10 is too easy, they shouldn't nerf reaper points for everyone else.

Maybe the should make a system where you can remove some /all of your reaper points benefits for an unique reward (cosmetics?) for the people who already think R10 is easy.

[Brac]

They have to do it because the reaper trees themselves proves to be a lag feast during dynamic calculations in terms of DCs and damage on the fly.
By making it automatic and static so that the calculations are faster. They observed that hardcore that does not have lag NOT because its a better "hardware" server.
Hardcore has more people and "no" lag because most people do not have past lives and reaper points. So by making those automatic, the lag will be "less", if not "gone". I am guessing this is part of the roadmap to address lag and performance.

If you believe that I think your drinking the Kool Aid. That is the SSG easy button for making changes players may not ask for or want. "It will help fix lag", yet it never seems to really work...

[Kelledren]

I would be really mad if this is a nerf of any sort. I worked hard to get my reaper points. So many many wipes and deaths (I'm no where close to the point where high or even mid reaper is "easy") and such a long time LFM.

I also completely max my defenses because I need them. Without trees the benefits would be automatically decided? I really hope they still give the same defenses and spell DCs (can never have enough spell DCs) and boosts.

If they do it right, veterans don't lose any power but newbies/intermediate players get a LOT of buffs from the share, so you can play reaper well in a group, no matter how many RP you personally have.

So there are two camps- those who don’t want reaper tree granted abilities nerfed at all, and the other camp who says R10s (quests not raids) are way too easy now. This is partly due to the power given from said reaper trees. So somewhere is a balance that needs to be hit.

I’ve been in R10s that are zerged like they are R1s. I don’t think this should be the case- R10s should require slower, see the mobs, pull the reapers kill them/focus on champs first to survive kind of play. Not a full speed- I’ll open a snow peaks chest for two 2 bronze coins, just because I can, while the remains mobs are romfl stomped.

That said DC bonuses probably can’t afford to get nerfed at all- just too much investment to get all the DCs to be viable. This should be easier to balance as the max DCs attainable is known, as are targets saves. However getting the cores in non reaper content should probably go.

I would like to see something like 20 reaper levels- gated to match character levels up to 40. To hit level 20 should be ridiculous like equivalent to gaining 200-300 reaper points or something so people still have reaper purpose, yet the sharing makes reaper noobs viable in a group (especially reaper-point-light DC casters).

Then have something like 2MP/2RP/2USP/4HP per level, +1 dodge every 2 levels, +1 bonus DCs every 4 levels, and +1 all stats every 5 (maybe 10) levels.

This applies straight across the board all players in a group (based on party leader level) should be a lot less lag.

This is my initial opinion- not a Dev so numbers may need to be finagled, but worst case adjust monsters a little if needed for balance. Or reaper level boosts to monsters to “make R10s R10 again!” Working on the hat slogan- not going well tho.

[Kelledren]

Just because the top 1% (?) of players think R10 is too easy, they shouldn't nerf reaper points for everyone else.

Maybe the should make a system where you can remove some /all of your reaper points benefits for an unique reward (cosmetics?) for the people who already think R10 is easy.

Definitely not top 1%. There are a lot more characters out there that believe this than you think. I’m not top 1%, nowhere near. Maybe the top 10% carry the top 11-50% of us quite a bit. But not just 1%. Again reaver that shared points means less reaper experienced characters get a boon. As for making R10s harder, that can be done by adjusting bonuses to mobs too- not just nerfing characters.

[Martininice]

Reaper trees need a nerf. People are already saying that reaper 10 is too easy. The nerf should be in the later points not the earlier ones though.
I hope they take this opportunity to also add diminishing returns to power gained from reaper points and then just make reaper points earnable without limit. Otherwise we will have this problem again in a few years.

and with "already", you mean after 5 years of extensive grinding (early AT exploiters excluded)...

[KoobTheProud]

I still don't understand what happened to "You Win DDO!"

They must have decided that satisfying the biggest grinders was going to be easy.

[wolfy42]

When I came back a little over a year ago, I had not played much reaper prior to that. I didn't really think it was worth it, and when I played previously Elite was still much more difficult then it was now, and you had to do the quests all on elite for the bravery bonus.

There was enough difficulty doing quests solo on elite to make the game fun, and give you a reason to increase your characters power.

When I came back, I was shocked at the changes, the game was made WAY easier it seemed, especially if you didn't play in reaper. Elite quests offered very little challenge even with a fresh first life toon. There was a significant difficulty spike going to even reaper one though (considering I had no reaper points at all), and I died a few times when multiple reapers would spawn etc.

Mind you, I always start with fresh characters when I come back, so no past lives etc, and mainly only with equipment I actually get with that character...which does make it both more challenging (and to me, more fun).

Over time though getting both reaper points, better equipment and past lives, reaper one stopped being any real challenge as well. Elite is honestly a joke even without the reaper point bonuses (And there really is no reason to do elite vs reaper 1, since youg et more exp, some reaper points and all the reaper tree bonuses).

That being said, for me, even after a year of playing around, even reaper 4 can be a challenge and I rarely play anything over that. I understand for some that reaper 10 is no longer a challenge, and I think making a reaper 11 or something might be a good idea, but I would not drastically change the current difficulty level of lower reapers.

Also, after finally investing time in getting reaper points and working up the tree, I would really be dissapointed to see that just become a static bonus. IF you want to make it so others can benefit, just make the current reaper bonuses affect the entire party while in reaper (with only 1 effect applying per party per tree).In theory that would actually give more bonuses to everyone since they are all shared.

I like having options and a tree though, DDO is partially so great because we have so much control on how we build our characters and so many ways to build them. More is better, so ifyou change reaper, give MORE options not less.

As far as difficulty, you could simply make a higher reaper difficulty that gives mega reaper points or something (seperate from reaper ones) that help compensate for the new penalties. Reaper 11 is the same as reaper 10, except you have 25% less max hp and spell points. Reaper 12 is 50% less hp and spell points and the ultimate highest reaper 13 is 75% max hp and spell points lol. Reaper 11 gives 1x mega reaper points which can be spent to increase max hp or sp by 1% per level (capped at 75%), reaper 12 gives double the points and reaper 13 gives tripple the points. Those bonuses work on all reaper quests 1-13.

Something like that could make higher difficulty for players who really want it, but not drastically affect the game for 90% or more of them.

The current balance is already kinda wonky to be honest, but I'm used to it. IF you are going to change anything, just change things ina positive way that makes the game more fun and doesn't nerf anyone. There is never a good reason to nerf things in my opinion.

[Wahnsinnig]

"Future reaper update is to remove reaper trees and replace with a scaling system that automatically applies bonuses based on reaper points acquired and gives bonuses at certain levels (think battle pass), that is also sharable."

I really hope they abandon this stupid idea.

What makes DDO interesting is that you can pick and choose the abilities you want in different enhancement trees to get your character build the way you want. Removing that choice from reaper is the wrong way to go, if anything we should get more reaper trees.