U58 Preview 2: Acolyte of the Skin Warlock Archetype

[Xezom]

So I gave this guy another go today just to see if there was some potential that I missed. I'd originally thought of doing a AotS/Pal split. Unfortunately, You can't be a paladin with AotS because Paladin requires Good alignment and AotS forbids good. If the pact was something different it's a set up that I could see working with the wonky Blast/Pact dice feats. A possibility would be to remove the "not good" restriction from the fiend pact for this Archetype only. I'm not saying that it's an optimal set up due to lack of Arcane spell failure removal in heavier armor, so you're still not that bulky even if you got the save bonuses from paladin. But it would at least open up some of the bulkier options.

Sadly, at this point this Archetype just doesn't have a home in DDO right now. Even if the fear "SLA's" worked, I'm not convinced it would matter. As has been pointed out, most bosses and important targets are immune to fear effects meaning your double Pact damage will not apply when you need it the most.

The latest I tried was as a Chain Blaster: TS Capped, taint the blood and no worse fate (for the shaken on hit) from SE, and up to Drink their fear in AotS. Used the Scare spell and symbol of fear manually cast. It's not as god awful bad as relying on the broken sla's in this tree, but having things run in fear is definitely a pain more than an asset. You can evard's them to help lock them down so they dont run away, but that just adds another layer of clunk to the playstyle. Not to mention Symbol of fear has a slow cast time, and Scare has a really big delay between time of cast and when it goes off. Also, shaken doesn't seem to proc the double pact dice even though it is a form of fear. It does when things are feared by Scare tho. If it would work with shaken, as it seems like it's intended to, then the synergy between AotS and Soul Eater would be great for the fortitude cut on hit and the shaken on hit causing your pact dice to double. I still agree that being as this is all about fire that the swing should have went heavier to pact dice than to base dice in the feats but that's a minor issue compared to the other major issues this tree has.

The Beam shape just needs scrapped. If it was me, I'd do something like this:

Eldrich Blast Shape: Projected Fear- Transforms your Eldrich Blast into a blast of fiery terror at a distance damaging all enemies in a small area around your target. Enemies hit by this shape become shaken in fear. -10/15/20/or some other negotiable number% Eldrich Blast attack speed.

This way you're not penalizing the Pact damage that this tree is about, providing some decent AoE options of Warlocks, but still having a drawback of being slower. This would make Projected fear the slower but harder hitting Eldrich Blast shape, self synergize with the Drink their Fear point once it works with Shaken effects, and offer an true AoE form for Warlocks.

[Cashiry]

Past Life
Acolyte of the Skin: You gain +5 Fire Spell Power and +1 MRR.

+1 MRR is low IMHO, +2 MRR would be much better,

[Strimtom]

This tree is hard to evaluate, but conceptually it is very cool. I couldn't terst much since almost nothing worked on lamannia, so here is what I got:

• Pact attunement (feat) text says d6 for blast and d4 for pact instead of the proper numbers d8/d6
• Tree seems to be very melee oriented, but the beam is focused on long range penetration and being in the back line. Very counter intuitive.
• Beam thoughts: Beam is too narrow, and beam needs to have better height tolerance. Also, beam feels very out of place in the tree, that is heavy focused on melee damage. Beam should be a narrow cone imo, like the eye beam. Regardless it should not slow you.
• Eye beam attacks only works once, the visual never goes away, and I can't test anything else about it since they definitely don't work
• Skin adaptation doesn't work
• Shaken (which is a fear) doesn't proc drink their fear when it should
• Howl of terror would be great for this tree, maybe as T5 for SLA.
• Cores should at least be 4 or higher, 3 per core feels low considering they get no other powers for cores.

[Lotoc]

Idea for replacing beam shape
What if rather than a blast shape in this tree you were to get a toggle that changed your pact damage from fire to something less resisted like slashing damage to fit the theme of demonic claws (while still scaling with your fire sp/crit) but it had the drawback of doing some low amount of fire damage to yourself, it'd have to be low because recoil damage tends to get amplified in reaper, and on lower difficulties your fire resist should block most of it.

Overall it'd make the archetype less tethered to Tiefling for fire bypass and also give a manner to heal oneself by using the transformation without relying on the threat of fire damage being in your current quest.

[LurkingVeteran]

Idea for replacing beam shape
What if rather than a blast shape in this tree you were to get a toggle that changed your pact damage from fire to something less resisted like slashing damage to fit the theme of demonic claws (while still scaling with your fire sp/crit) but it had the drawback of doing some low amount of fire damage to yourself, it'd have to be low because recoil damage tends to get amplified in reaper, and on lower difficulties your fire resist should block most of it.

Overall it'd make the archetype less tethered to Tiefling for fire bypass and also give a manner to heal oneself by using the transformation without relying on the threat of fire damage being in your current quest.

I like the ides of actual beams because they are fast and not slow like regular eb. Shame this was just wonky ips for regular eb. Please make it actual beams, or failing that, a red lightning bolt.

[SpardaX]

So just a question here about the design. What do you see as the AotS getting that is so valuable for what it gives up?

For instance, the pact spells? These just seem to be removed with nothing replacing them. The AoTS is not really getting anything "better" than other Warlocks. Blast damage is pretty much the same (maybe due to bugs?) so no DPS advantage.

Dark One's Luck is 1000% better than 20 fire resistance. At minimum this should be changed to fire absorption since 20 fire resistance doesn't matter when incoming damage is in the thousands.

Maybe I am missing something here, so please feel free to enlighten (spirit) me.

Whether it's working correctly or not, I can't say. Buy at least as written, the archetype gains base damage on a regular lock, and gets it's damage faster.

Arch lock:
2d8/2d6 at lv 1
4d8/4d6 at lv 6
6d8/6d6 at lv 12
8d8/8d6 at lv 18.

Regular lock:
1d8/1 at lv 1
1d8/1d6 at lv 2
2d8/2d6 at lv 4 (this is where the archetype is at lv 1)
2d8/3d6 at lv 6
3d8/4d6 at lv 8
3d8/5d8 at lv 10
4d8/6d6 at lv 12 (and so on until)
6d8/10d6 at lv 20. Both last dice, you only get AT 20.

So even if you consider 6d8+10d6 = average 27+35= 62 vs 8d8+8d6 = 36+28 = 64, an average damage increase of 2 to be negligible (I assume by design), at the very least, from lv 1 all the way to lb 19, the archetype is quite far ahead.

Which at least to me, suggests: If you consider Warlock to be "Sorcerer, but we took a bunch of your spells away but in return gave you a free damage button, so you basically take the Utility spells you were going to but don't need to worry about attack spells", then this Archtype (at least from 1 to 19) of "Have even less spells, but have even more eldritch blast damage" suggests to me that it's the Warlockiest warlock.

Obviously once you hit lv 20 the damage almost completely evens out, but by then with destiny spells and destiny abilities, the metrics of heroics are all thrown out anyway. And at least in my opinion, the only Fiend spell worth having is Rage, -maybe- command, but you can get that as an SLA in a tree. And at level 20 you're generally going to have someone Primal Screaming you so even rage becomes unnecessary.

[Aelonwy]

So I played around with this in heroic running the new quest. Its really hard to say much since the special attacks didn't seem to be working all that well or at all. At this moment I cannot say that the trade-off of loosing half my warlock spells for this tree is even remotely worth it. I mean you end up being a full caster class with LESS SPELLS than pure ranger or paladin. ?! Underwhelming to say the least.

We loose Enlightened Spirit's access to Medium Armor Proficiency but gain multiple enhancements that depend on wearing armor but... but there isn't much appropriate caster "armor" for this archetype. Its in a weird position.

As of this moment I see only drawbacks and zero allure.

[SpardaX]

Unfortunately, You can't be a paladin with AotS because Paladin requires Good alignment and AotS forbids good.

Sadly, at this point this Archetype just doesn't have a home in DDO right now.

If nothing else, I can say that a Paladin that does not have to be Lawful Good, has been hinted at by some devs as a future coming Archtype.

[Zoobie1977]

Devil's Bulwark does not work with a Docent as armour - is that intentional?

[Zoobie1977]

Both Glare enhancement abilities shares CD with Cleave - does that make them mutually exclusive?

[Smokewolf]

I LOVE the way the duration on this is handled.

Gives the capstone more power for pure builds in an organic way.

Problem with a T5 melee ability (Fiendish Symbiosis) is that there is nothing (melee-wise) that comes during the characters enh-tree progression that builds up to it. Thus its just a flavor ability with no substance and a crappy cool-down. Someone would be a fool to make a build around this when the other Warlock trees are significantly better. (And that not really saying much)

[Lotoc]

Problem with a T5 melee ability (Fiendish Symbiosis) is that there is nothing (melee-wise) that comes during the characters enh-tree progression that builds up to it. Thus its just a flavor ability with no substance and a crappy cool-down. Someone would be a fool to make a build around this when the other Warlock trees are significantly better. (And that not really saying much)

You've kinda missed it, you don't need to and in fact it's worthless to build for melee with this archetype even in the transformation as it isn't actual melee attacks and instead point blank blasts, all the durability in this tree basically just serves to let you survive point blank blasting.

[Pandjed]

As many pointed ot, the eldritch stance doesn't fit the rest of the tree and feels like a worse cone.

Another idea: How about making the eldritch stance a melee stance with strikethrough (maybe even combinable with THF)? Add some more defensives in and we got a melee caster that doesn't burst like ES, but instead strikes. Make the demonform stronger, so that it feels like an extension or make demon form a major form instead, we got plenty of bears running around after all. Could also open up new cosmetic skins as a business model.

If this would be a melee centric tree that also has some ranged SLAs, I think this would feel better to play.

[Lotoc]

As many pointed ot, the eldritch stance doesn't fit the rest of the tree and feels like a worse cone.

Another idea: How about making the eldritch stance a melee stance with strikethrough (maybe even combinable with THF)? Add some more defensives in and we got a melee caster that doesn't burst like ES, but instead strikes. Make the demonform stronger, so that it feels like an extension or make demon form a major form instead, we got plenty of bears running around after all. Could also open up new cosmetic skins as a business model.

If this would be a melee centric tree that also has some ranged SLAs, I think this would feel better to play.

Ultimately I think one of the biggest problems with Acolyte of the Skin is it simply isn't doing anything that warlock doesn't already do, nor is it exploring alternative potentials of the class in any meaningful way.
It's really just ending up blastier warlock when the predominant way to build warlock is blaster anyway.
Thematically acolyte of the skin had room to be a genuine tank archetype for warlocks and I feel like it would have been much better received than this iteration. Instead it's less tanky than ES.
It could have been designed to support a melee playstyle, heck an unarmed (handwrap) warlock that manifests his pact as demonic claws would have been amazing in theming.
Honestly I'm pretty surprised that this archetype tree gets a 20% hp scaler rather than 15% or a scaler at all, this simply is not a melee tree. What little melee capacity warlock has is pretty much removed with this archetype it's just a bulky caster and it getting more than EKs and Vile Chemists is kind of a joke when it's going to play from range the majority of the time.

[LurkingVeteran]

Ultimately I think one of the biggest problems with Acolyte of the Skin is it simply isn't doing anything that warlock doesn't already do, nor is it exploring alternative potentials of the class in any meaningful way.
It's really just ending up blastier warlock when the predominant way to build warlock is blaster anyway.
Thematically acolyte of the skin had room to be a genuine tank archetype for warlocks and I feel like it would have been much better received than this iteration. Instead it's less tanky than ES.
It could have been designed to support a melee playstyle, heck an unarmed (handwrap) warlock that manifests his pact as demonic claws would have been amazing in theming.
Honestly I'm pretty surprised that this archetype tree gets a 20% hp scaler rather than 15% or a scaler at all, this simply is not a melee tree. What little melee capacity warlock has is pretty much removed with this archetype it's just a bulky caster and it getting more than EKs and Vile Chemists is kind of a joke when it's going to play from range the majority of the time.

If this turns into a melee tree, can SSG please speed up the projectiles and animations of the other warlock blast shapes so warlock blasters are not so slow and clunky, and can more smoothly chain with spells? I was really happy to see "beams" because one expect beams to be fast, which means warlock might actually become fun to play with a cool beam lining up enemies.

This is what people expected:

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/di...ntegrate-3.jpg

What we got seems like the regular old pew-pew.

[Stravix]

So, while this is an interesting archetype it seems plagued by some notable issues, bugs notwithstanding (but there seem to be a lot of those too).

• Blast Die spread vs Primary tree: This class grants more blast die and less pact die than normal warlocks, signalling that the archetype should be focused on blast damage, not pact damage, and yet the enhancement tree is entirely focused on enhancing the pact die side of your damage. This mismatch needs to be addressed in some fashion, and I would suggest making the feats grant +1/+3 blast/pact die instead of +2/+2 as it currently is.
• Fiendish Symbiosis: This needs more oomph. As of now this is a DPS loss to use this, which should not be the case. Maybe also give it a "blast speed" bonus per core allocated (honestly 15% wouldn't be overkill), and maybe reduce the CD to 2 minutes to give it ~50% uptime at lvl 20
• The Cores: Likely a bit low, might need a small bump (especially HP), but this is close to being OK.
• Inscribed spells: Personally OK with these gone, but it feels as if we got nothing for it. Trade blast die progression for the new style: wash. Trade +2 to all saves for 20 fire res: wash at best. Trade the inscribed spell for... nothing? Likely need something we can say we get for those spells.
• Beam Shape: Honestly, this seems to not work in the way that people want. If it supposed to be a continuous beam, it seems to be failing at that goal. I don't know what can be done about that in the timeframe left, but this seems to be a bit of a stinker ATM.

Honestly, I like the look of this one, but it needs some love to bring it up to snuff. There are a lot of neat ideas in here (Duration of abilities based on core progression, double pact die against feared enemies, etc. but it seems hamstringed by low numbers atm)

[Triaxx2]

Some thoughts on how I'd have built this, though I suspect it's too late for such a sharp change:

Beam needs double range. Straight up, in order to have a different role to cone. Cone can also hit multiple enemies and in a far wider radius. Were I doing it, the claw attack would have been the primary attack shape, with additional cleaving/great cleaving potential further along. And the Beam would be a Ray style ranged attack.
Claw would also change on fighting style. SWF would scale speed with attack speed, THF would turn it into close range chain attack with additional jumps on strikethrough, and TWF making it double hit on offhand hit chance.
Fiend Form would become a multi-selector:
Fiend Reaver, SWF speed Pact Die imbue for the duration. IE, for each Pact Die you have it's 1d6 of Imbue, with fast SWF attack speed.
Fiend of Chains, THF style, jumps work as if you have 500% strikethrough chance (IE hits 6), Vorpals trigger an SDK chain style attack.
Fiend Ravener, spellpower scaling increased by 100% for the duration, stacks fortification reduction 5% per 10% offhand doublestrike.

All in all I like the idea, but it just... has some issues fitting into how DDO plays right now.

[Scrag]

This is what people expected:

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/di...ntegrate-3.jpg

What we got seems like the regular old pew-pew.

I am a people and this is what I expect too!

[dng242]

I like the idea here, but not the execution. There doesn't seem to be a good solid vision for what this is to be.

The bean hints at an eldritch bow user.
The Glares seem to say raging barbarian.
While the Fiendish Symbiosis is dark cleric melee.
And they don't really work well together.

I would recommend #1. Find a vision and go after it! Ideally something not already done in Warlock.

Perhaps build on the Glare and Symbiosis. Replace the ray with what effectively would be a short range (melee + 10m) semicircle attack blast shape (in the guise of the claw attack) (not sold on this exact attack method, but something demon esc). Allow that blast shape to count for as the aura for Enlighten spirit buffs (e.g. spiritual defense). Make Enlighten spirit available (obviously) and remove soul eater. That synergy makes more sense.
May need some more changes to be survivable at close range.

Make this a diving, moving, shifting demon that rips enemies apart up-close and personal (but with a little more range/difference than melee).

Not fully fleshed out, but it does have a clear direction that is different than what you can get now.

[Kielbasa]

Agree with others the most interesting part of the tree is the demonic transformation turning you into a essentially a razorclaw shifter but with lots of fire and bigger claws. The first core should be you give up use of all other warlock blast shapes and transform into a minor demon and do a better job building upon that throughout the cores and higher enhancement tiers.

Beam shape should just be removed it is going to run into all of the problems people have with improved precise shot.

Where beam shape is you should have the demonic version of eldrich aura ~ "tainted aura". From there you can work on tweaking the glare abilities so they have a range similar to greater color spray. Add some sort of demonic leap to t5 and you would have a rampaging demon warlock that is unique compared to its other gameplay styles. More glass cannon than Enlightened spirit since you won't have all that temp hp but you should have more damage and mobility to compensate.