U58 Preview 2: Dark Hunter Ranger Archetype

[Oliphant]

Seems like a 10 DH/9 Rogue/1 Barb split would be ok for ranged dps, getting the past lives.

[droid327]

Seems like a 10 DH/9 Rogue/1 Barb split would be ok for ranged dps, getting the past lives.

11 DH 7 Rogue 2 Arti, 41 Inqui 12 Harper 7 DH 11 DWS 9 Assa

Gets you Ranger ranged autogrants up through IPS, 3 sneak die from DH, 4 sneak die from Rogue, 2 from DH and Assa, 2 Imbue die from Assa (or 3 if you have a Universal AP tome), and 3 sneak die and Sniper Shot from DWS, plus Runearms for extra pseudo-imbue, and Evasion if they end up not giving it back to DH.

Plus all the trapping in one lol. Trap splash? Please...trap sploosh!

[kiaoto]

My question to devs is? what makes this archetype something that would excite me to play it? in r1 or r10?

[amessi1]

My question to devs is? what makes this archetype something that would excite me to play it? in r1 or r10?

doubtful you'll get a response from a dev b/c, well the question is a bit pointy...like the sharp end of a stick.

though, a tempest/DWS sniper with those extra sneak die is hard to pass...really the sneak die are a reason to re-roll for anyone who is into rangers now...keep in mind you can still get into the arcane archer tree (elf). my end game melees will be Shadow Dancer with at least enough to get evasion, so that's not an end game deal breaker (OR Tabaxi has a tier-4 racial to get evasion. plus, plus, plus traps...don't get me wrong, getting the int based DCs for a trapper might be hard gearing wise, but probably some swap-in gear should work.

I don't quite understand the enhancement tree just yet and maybe it's not fully baked just yet, but honestly, what's already there is solid.

[Dalsheel]

My question to devs is? what makes this archetype something that would excite me to play it? in r1 or r10?

Imho, nothing. This is just a past life class. You get the past life and forget about it. Just like Sacred Fist and Dark Apostate.

[jakeelala]

this is very bad pls fix

[DaviMOC]

Looking for a razorclaw fist fighter on it. prolly 14barb/6ranger or 14ranger/6barb seems nice. The more experienced builders could share some good insights on a split too.
I feel excited tbh.

[FixBows]

2 things I see from this class. Neither of which actually use the tree... 1- 3x past lives for SA dice. 2- replace my 6 lvls of regular ranger with 6 lvls of DH on my HW build (mainly rogue) for 2x SA dice. I see nothing of value (benefit from spending points in the tree vs somewhere else) from this tree as it is today.

I'll say this again, I am very much disappointed with the archetypes thus far as I feel they do not bring much value to the game other than a different past life to grind out. Someone told me the bard one is ok, but maybe that is it so far for archetypes.

[xaxaeb]

I don't quite understand the enhancement tree just yet and maybe it's not fully baked just yet, but honestly, what's already there is solid.

The only solid in this tree is how solid of a turd it is...... Preview 1 gave it a ranged assassinate, which was changed to a gimped version of rogue assassinate in preview 2.
Wolf? Absolutely worthless. Just as any other pet. Having a pet in pen and paper means almost +1 party member. Having a pet in DDO means being able to pull some levers w/o drawing aggro/locking yourself in. This tree needs to be either something else, or not come out until pets are worth something.
The fact that a "sneaky" class lost evasion and instead got armor proficiency that gives skill penalties.....

[spifflove]

Looking for a razorclaw fist fighter on it. prolly 14barb/6ranger or 14ranger/6barb seems nice. The more experienced builders could share some good insights on a split too.
I feel excited tbh.

12 ranger 8 barb for improved uncanny dodge.

[unbongwah]

Looking for a razorclaw fist fighter on it. prolly 14barb/6ranger or 14ranger/6barb seems nice. The more experienced builders could share some good insights on a split too.
I feel excited tbh.

Ranger / Dark Hunter grant TWF feats free, but most Tempest goodies (anything labeled "Dual Wielding Attack" or "while dual-wielding weapons") doesn't work with handwraps. I suppose for a Razorclaw handwraps ranger, you could use tier-5 Dark Hunter (+1 crit multiplier) with Advanced Sneak Attack (+1 crit range); then take Overwhelming Shifting for another +1 crit multiplier. But it's a pretty AP-starved idea unless you've got a bunch of racial PLs.

[amessi1]

consider that one of the leading dps builds is a 12-Rog/6-Ranger/2-whatever using the Horizon walker tree. again, i'm not sure how to use the Dark Hunter enhancement tree, but this bow build just two more sneak die at the cost of select favored enemies...a trade I'd take all day, every day, especially since most of the desirable favored enemies can be picked up through enhancements/destines/etc.

tweaks to the dark hunter tree I'd suggest:
* run speed
* leverage Spring Attack (maybe a reverse spring attack or run speed bonus afterwards)
* make the dog near unkillable by mobs, fast, maybe a single target threat magnet, aiming to get 1 or 2 kills max at end-game per dungeon. dooms & bosses should kill the dog easily OR dog can't hold their agro. it'd be fun to see the dog corner a caster/ranger while party kills the rest of the mobs.
* make the Smoke Trap an area of effect trap centered on the player or maybe a cone (huge synergy with Dance of Death)

[LurkingVeteran]

consider that one of the leading dps builds is a 12-Rog/6-Ranger/2-whatever using the Horizon walker tree. again, i'm not sure how to use the Dark Hunter enhancement tree, but this bow build just two more sneak die at the cost of select favored enemies...a trade I'd take all day, every day, especially since most of the desirable favored enemies can be picked up through enhancements/destines/etc.

tweaks to the dark hunter tree I'd suggest:
* run speed
* leverage Spring Attack (maybe a reverse spring attack or run speed bonus afterwards)
* make the dog near unkillable by mobs, fast, maybe a single target threat magnet, aiming to get 1 or 2 kills max at end-game per dungeon. dooms & bosses should kill the dog easily OR dog can't hold their agro. it'd be fun to see the dog corner a caster/ranger while party kills the rest of the mobs.
* make the Smoke Trap an area of effect trap centered on the player or maybe a cone (huge synergy with Dance of Death)

Bit more, you can't pick up epic sneak attack without 11 Rog. Reducing the tree to a +5D6 sneak attack spash is also not so great.

[elvesunited]

2 things I see from this class. Neither of which actually use the tree... 1- 3x past lives for SA dice. 2- replace my 6 lvls of regular ranger with 6 lvls of DH on my HW build (mainly rogue) for 2x SA dice. I see nothing of value (benefit from spending points in the tree vs somewhere else) from this tree as it is today.

I'll say this again, I am very much disappointed with the archetypes thus far as I feel they do not bring much value to the game other than a different past life to grind out. Someone told me the bard one is ok, but maybe that is it so far for archetypes.

I think that the past lives for this archetype provide ( +1 Sneak attack and +1 sneak attack damage ) It doesn't actually give you more dice.

[DaviMOC]

12 ranger 8 barb for improved uncanny dodge.

Nice one, was missing it.

Ranger / Dark Hunter grant TWF feats free, but most Tempest goodies (anything labeled "Dual Wielding Attack" or "while dual-wielding weapons") doesn't work with handwraps. I suppose for a Razorclaw handwraps ranger, you could use tier-5 Dark Hunter (+1 crit multiplier) with Advanced Sneak Attack (+1 crit range); then take Overwhelming Shifting for another +1 crit multiplier. But it's a pretty AP-starved idea unless you've got a bunch of racial PLs.

Oh thats sad on the tempest thing. Was thinking about it. That made me think about swaping razor barb for trailblazer monk. Not really my theme and also gotta think if its worth swaping medium for evasion. Many possibilities. Well, will think about it.

Thanks folks, you rock.

[SilentRunning]

Based on some reading this tree feels more like it should be a universal tree than an Archetype of any particular class:

https://srd.dndtools.org/srd/classes...arkHunter.html

https://dndtools.net/classes/dark-hunter/

Both of these show this as having no definitive weapon and armor proficiencies.

[R1ncewind]

Based on some reading this tree feels more like it should be a universal tree than an Archetype of any particular class:

https://srd.dndtools.org/srd/classes...arkHunter.html

https://dndtools.net/classes/dark-hunter/

Both of these show this as having no definitive weapon and armor proficiencies.

This make so much more sense...

[HailBlazR]

Wow, how completely and expectedly asinine. Looks like SSG once again overpromised and underdelivers. No more Ranged Assassinate and Evasion pretty much kills any potential this tree could've had.

Also, the +Critical T5 was changed, but not highlighted in blue. Previously, it was "If you have Improved Critical: Piercing, this bonus to Threat Range is doubled." Guess Steelstar didn't want anyone noticing this stealth change?

Seriously - just nix all of these changes and restore it to the Preview 1 version lol. It wasn't perfect, but it's far better and more interesting than the new version. SSG have once again managed to please just about nobody, yet I doubt it'll matter to them. They'll just roll out these changes onto the live environment and completely disregard any criticism/suggestions, as usual.

Glad I'm going into year 6 of not having spent a single penny on this game.

[Bjond]

really the sneak die are a reason to re-roll for anyone who is into rangers

Not really. Next life for my (currently raid-parked) thrower will certainly pick DH for it's 6 ranger levels for the couple extra sneak dice, but I won't be in a hurry to do so. That's probably a good thing. Anything that incites an "omg must reroll right now!" reaction is almost certainly too OP.

Imho, nothing. This is just a past life class. You get the past life and forget about it. Just like Sacred Fist and Dark Apostate.

Kinda yes and no on this. I think DH looks great as a splash and will very quickly be the ranger CLASS of choice for pretty much anyone that uses rangers. The tree is sadly underpowered, though.

Ranger is used for strong TWF or as a ranged splash. Ranged looses going deeper than 6 on DH -- better to put AP and levels into assassin instead.

That leaves TWF which wants at least Tempest T4 with T5 in Tempest, FB, or VKF with another 21 AP in DWS if you skipped VKF. That leaves VERY little for DH. Why DWS over DH when skipping VKF? Because CR+1 is worth about 7~11d6 sneak attack at cap and DH only has 4d6 sneak at best and no other DPS improvement. DH improves pet (might as well delete), adds a bleed imbue (same, half the game is immune), adds sneak (nice, but not enough without CR+1), and that's about it outside of trying to trick people into using medium armor.

IMHO, DH as a tree is inconsequential, though. The rest of ranger is still VERY nice and DH as a class supports the rest of ranger better than the base class. So, yeah, we can whine about the tree being too weak to earn any AP buys, but in the end that's OK. All uses of ranger are still getting at least a little bit nicer from using DH as a base.

[Aelonwy]

Kinda yes and no on this. I think DH looks great as a splash and will very quickly be the ranger CLASS of choice for pretty much anyone that uses rangers. The tree is sadly underpowered, though.

Ranger is used for strong TWF or as a ranged splash. Ranged looses going deeper than 6 on DH -- better to put AP and levels into assassin instead.

That leaves TWF which wants at least Tempest T4 with T5 in Tempest, FB, or VKF with another 21 AP in DWS if you skipped VKF. That leaves VERY little for DH. Why DWS over DH when skipping VKF? Because CR+1 is worth about 7~11d6 sneak attack at cap and DH only has 4d6 sneak at best and no other DPS improvement. DH improves pet (might as well delete), adds a bleed imbue (same, half the game is immune), adds sneak (nice, but not enough without CR+1), and that's about it outside of trying to trick people into using medium armor.

IMHO, DH as a tree is inconsequential, though. The rest of ranger is still VERY nice and DH as a class supports the rest of ranger better than the base class. So, yeah, we can whine about the tree being too weak to earn any AP buys, but in the end that's OK. All uses of ranger are still getting at least a little bit nicer from using DH as a base.

Forgive me, maybe I'm missing something... but it seems like what you are saying boils down into the only real value of DH is getting ranger levels with ranger feats and rogue skills for splashing and to more or less ignore the DH tree? Am I correct? At which point, if you are not bothering with the tree at all, if its entirely irrelevant to any build you plan to make with DH... doesn't that say something about the relative usefulness and worth of the tree itself?