Severlin says daily gold rolls "fiscally" Irresponsible

[ahpook]

The problem with this thread is arguing that people did or did not get excessive value from the gold rolls is an impossible task. Not everyone rolled the same stuff, Not everyone values things equally, and not everyone would have bought the stuff that they did value from the gold rolls. Everyone is right and everyone is wrong because it is personal for everyone (not to mention anecdotal).

Better to look at it the other way. You got extra rolls per month worth 15 AS. At the best price for AS that works out to maybe 1100 DDO points per month. Per server. At 1100 pts per month it may be OK but if people are rolling on every server then its over 10000 DDO Points per month. Whether that has value to you or not, it is what the benefit can be considered to be valued at. If you look at it that way maybe its too good. (A daily roll per account would be a more realistic benefit).

Like many others here I can see that this benefit maybe should end but SSG really took advantage of a pooch by not having something else ready to go. For that they deserve every ounce of scorn and anger they are receiving here. And absolutely it is not the job of posters here to speculate why gold rolls are too good. Don't argue my math above because it is BS that we even need to speculate about it. SSG should have come here with this justification if it was an issue. Not only could they not come up with a ready to roll VIP idea in 10 months, they could not take 10 minutes to write up the reason it was going away. They are awful communicators and it is indefensible.

[Eantarus]

You are a small time spender that has maybe 2 weeks of pots for a dolphin. lol 2 years lol. I don't think your 20 bucks in pots is going to make a blip on a financial report.

I don't even believe 30% potions make up a noticeable volume of SSG's revenue. Every 30% potion I've ever had either came from a gold role or an otto's box. Who would pay for 30% potions when there's 50% potions? I used to buy 50% potions like mad; but I don't plan to spend any more money on the game after this debacle.

[Oxarhamar]

The problem with this thread is arguing that people did or did not get excessive value from the gold rolls is an impossible task. Not everyone rolled the same stuff, Not everyone values things equally, and not everyone would have bought the stuff that they did value from the gold rolls. Everyone is right and everyone is wrong because it is personal for everyone (not to mention anecdotal).

Better to look at it the other way. You got extra rolls per month worth 15 AS. At the best price for AS that works out to maybe 1100 DDO points per month. Per server. At 1100 pts per month it may be OK but if people are rolling on every server then its over 10000 DDO Points per month. Whether that has value to you or not, it is what the benefit can be considered to be valued at. If you look at it that way maybe its too good. (A daily roll per account would be a more realistic benefit).

Like many others here I can see that this benefit maybe should end but SSG really took advantage of a pooch by not having something else ready to go. For that they deserve every ounce of scorn and anger they are receiving here. And absolutely it is not the job of posters here to speculate why gold rolls are too good. Don't argue my math above because it is BS that we even need to speculate about it. SSG should have come here with this justification if it was an issue. Not only could they not come up with a ready to roll VIP idea in 10 months, they could not take 10 minutes to write up the reason it was going away. They are awful communicators and it is indefensible.

That’s what I think it was likely players rolling on ever server then also the storage of all that

Having a daily reward that was once per account would work better to have players log in & play

[Malveaux]

I don't even believe 30% potions make up a noticeable volume of SSG's revenue. Every 30% potion I've ever had either came from a gold role or an otto's box. Who would pay for 30% potions when there's 50% potions? I used to buy 50% potions like mad; but I don't plan to spend any more money on the game after this debacle.

30% are perfect for leveling. I buy as many stacks as I can when they are on sale. 50% are for maxing out high reaper xp. I have found that just running the 1-20 game is more fun than going to cap and doing endgame stuff. I find it enjoyable to listen to people say endgame is dead and servers are dying out. It's a boycott. No more posting raids no more joining raids. It's the happening. It was planned.

[Eantarus]

That’s what I think it was likely players rolling on ever server then also the storage of all that

Having a daily reward that was once per account would work better to have players log in & play

Alternatively they could come up with daily rewards that aren't in the DDO store.

[Oxarhamar]

Alternatively they could come up with daily rewards that aren't in the DDO store.

Sure they could but if its something bankable and its once per server then its the same storage issue

[Enoach]

I'm ok with not having daily gold rolls as VIP.

What I would like is that anything that is possible with a Roll as a reward can be bought in the DDO store.

[superevbully]

I don't even believe 30% potions make up a noticeable volume of SSG's revenue. Every 30% potion I've ever had either came from a gold role or an otto's box. Who would pay for 30% potions when there's 50% potions? I used to buy 50% potions like mad; but I don't plan to spend any more money on the game after this debacle.

Taking the weekend to absorb all this mess ......and the whole vip hc transfer issue ............i dunno about the whole 30 %pot thing ..........but i am very familiar with the 50% pots approaching 400 pl on my toons prob says it all 1 stupid ottos box in all those from iod ..........i will not spend the money anymore and it has ZERO to do with my wallet being light its EVERYTHING to do with ssg management or lack there of

[Oxarhamar]

Yes, I have 2 years' worth of XP pots from gold rolls. I never said I am constantly on a potion every second I'm in the game. Nor do I TR every week. I have raid days twice a week, a static group night, and hardcore now takes up 50% of the calendar year. So, for the times I am TRing and popping potions - for Slayer groups, Sagas, or R8-10 XP; then I have enough potions for bonus XP for 2 years. Easily. That's lost income for SSG where I would have wanted a potion and likely bought one. And I never run slayers without a kill count boost going. I absolutely buy those in the store before the gold rolls gave me a ridiculous amount. Your results may vary.

Potion use is subjective

Ridiculous is not an amount

If you are only using potions on rare occasions then a few can last a very long time

[Marshal_Lannes]

The problem with this thread is arguing that people did or did not get excessive value from the gold rolls is an impossible task. Not everyone rolled the same stuff, Not everyone values things equally, and not everyone would have bought the stuff that they did value from the gold rolls. Everyone is right and everyone is wrong because it is personal for everyone (not to mention anecdotal).

You are correct, everyone is going to value things differently. I am responding specifically to claims this did not hurt SSGs bottom line and I'm saying, for me, it absolutely did because I now have enough XP and slayer pots to last me two years. I won't be buying those from the store anytime soon. I also won't buy Bigby's Hands. I find them quite useful, especially in raids. Did I buy them before? No, but with the gold rolls, I got them, started using them, and now would buy them but I don't have to since the supply is enormous because so many people were rolling them. I now have hundreds of each color from rolls and buying them cheaply on the AH. So, again, another stream of revenue was lost. And the list goes on and on and will be different for each individual gamer. Maybe we are dolphins (it's great being a dolphin! thanks!!) but lots of dolphins equal a whale and I don't see how anyone can think this wouldn't affect the bottom line from microtransactions which is what modern games thrive on.

At this point, the community has provided literally hundreds of ideas for VIP perks. Some of them have been great ideas. Really, the ball is in the Devs court now. For me, I want more XP bonuses for VIP but most of all I want to feel valued by the game. We are the ones who provide a steady stream of reliable income. We should be treated as valued members of the community that keep the game running and not taken for granted.

[Logicman69]

VIP member here for a VERY long time (probably approaching 15 years now). Here are my 2 cents:

- VIP in general is a decent deal. XP boost is great, More Characters is great, and the points per month generally make up for the value (IMO). Even if you are doing the monthly package at $15/month (and why would anyone do that unless you were just trying the game out), 5000 DDO points is roughly $50. So right there its really a good value (more-so if you do the yearly package). You also get the monster manual as well, which is a good chunk of bonus XP when leveling.
- If they take daily gold rolls away, I am ok with that. It was a nice while it lasted, but not really needed.
- I would like to see some added intangible benefits to VIP. Something to make lives a little easier. We want them to make money, as we want this game to continue and thrive, but at the same time the community wants to see more value to the VIP program. Here are some of my suggestions on what we can add:

- a special VIP butler who will collect all favor rewards for you and presents them to you" (no more running around to various patrons to collect favor). This would not cut into the bottom line for SSG (beyond development of the feature).
- Make the XP boost for VIP 20%. Maybe something also to boost reaper XP a little as well?
- Give VIP's early access to buy and install expansions. While we would still need to buy the content, giving us early access (2 weeks maybe?) would be nice.
- A special "call beacon" item that basically works like a teleport/Greater teleport spell. Using this item will let you teleport to any place those 2 spells would, along with your airship (again, would not cost SSG anything beyond development cost.. and since the mechanism is in the game already, this should be easy).
- this last one is not going to happen (due to how the items are coded, per the devs), but having a "cosmetic storage" option for VIP would be great. This would function much like the crafting storage does, but only items tagged as "cosmetic" can go in there. 50 slots... and expandable with DDO points just like the other banks.
- along those same lines, a higher cap on the bank storage would be a plus. Let me expand it (with points) up to 200.

Those are my 2 cents... take it or leave it.

[Eantarus]

My two cents on your two sents:

- a special VIP butler who will collect all favor rewards for you and presents them to you" (no more running around to various patrons to collect favor). This would not cut into the bottom line for SSG (beyond development of the feature).

Love it. Would be challenging to develop.

- Make the XP boost for VIP 20%. Maybe something also to boost reaper XP a little as well?

Unspeakably simple and highly effective. 10/10 though I say 25% would be better.

- Give VIP's early access to buy and install expansions. While we would still need to buy the content, giving us early access (2 weeks maybe?) would be nice.

Technically we all have early access to "install" the expansions. Most of the data for IoD was already in the client months before release. Given how many bugs a typical patch has on release, I don't think letting the VIPs download it any earlier would help. Same goes for pre-sale buying, what's the point? I DO think VIPs should get either a very deep discount OR special VIP-exclusive perks for buying content.

- A special "call beacon" item that basically works like a teleport/Greater teleport spell. Using this item will let you teleport to any place those 2 spells would, along with your airship (again, would not cost SSG anything beyond development cost.. and since the mechanism is in the game already, this should be easy).

The development is already done. Such an item exists in the the game. Only thing to add would be guild ship as a target, and the underlying engineering for THAT already exists as well. Such an item has been requested

- this last one is not going to happen (due to how the items are coded, per the devs), but having a "cosmetic storage" option for VIP would be great. This would function much like the crafting storage does, but only items tagged as "cosmetic" can go in there. 50 slots... and expandable with DDO points just like the other banks.

Never say never on this one. Remember that horses were originally a character-specific inventory item complete with a bag, and were then re-worked into the "mounts" stable we have now. Its entirely possible something similar could be done for cosmetics possibly even using a similar architecture.

I know requests like this have been made pretty much since cosmetics were introduced. But they also didn't tease the horse thing at all until the release notes so they could drop it on us any time. I don't believe it should be a VIP-specific perk, though.

- along those same lines, a higher cap on the bank storage would be a plus. Let me expand it (with points) up to 200.

[/QUOTE]

Needs to be MUCH MUCH MUCH higher. More like 2-3,000. 3000 shared bank would remove the need for mules and provide enough overhead for future expansion.

[Logicman69]

Technically we all have early access to "install" the expansions. Most of the data for IoD was already in the client months before release. Given how many bugs a typical patch has on release, I don't think letting the VIPs download it any earlier would help. Same goes for pre-sale buying, what's the point? I DO think VIPs should get either a very deep discount OR special VIP-exclusive perks for buying content.

My 2 cents added more to your 2 cents, which were added to my original 2 cents... which makes 6 cents now. I think we are rich?

While a discount would be nice, I think that would still cut into the bottom line. Something I was trying to avoid doing too much (beyond dev work costs). What I was thinking would be if say a new expansion (or any content for that matter) is set to be released on March 1st (example date), then VIP would be able to access the content on Feb 14th, while the rest of the community would have to wait till the March 1st date. This would just be a shift in their release cycle, and really shouldn't be any development on their part (maybe an adjustment to the flags behind the scenes.. game checks for VIP status before zoning into new content, for example). Its not a big deal, but its just a small perk.

The cosmetic thing... I really don't know why its so hard to implement something to help store all these things. They have to have an indicator on the item that it is a cosmetic (so it can go in the proper spot and not be equipped anywhere). The items are already moveable through the bank. And as you pointed out, it is shown that they can take like items and move them to a collective storage (cookies, mounts, ingredients).. So therefore it stands to reason that it should be feasible to have a storage section be for only items with the "cosmetic" tag on it. And if it IS possible, making it exclusive to VIP would be worth its weight in plat!

[Stimulus]

My inner cynic wants to believe that daily gold rolls filled up our bags with useless **** to make people buy more inventory space. However, the realist in me knows that daily gold rolls were because they had to offer some value for a subscription, but they had no ideas. So they tried to buy themselves some time to come up with some ideas.


In 10 months, they came up with 0 ideas.


This is the same number of ideas they had before, but now my bank is full of Deadly Aura scrolls and Potions of Grace.

Which are not ideas.



P.S. Your ransack system is bad.

[Eantarus]

My 2 cents added more to your 2 cents, which were added to my original 2 cents... which makes 6 cents now. I think we are rich?

8 cents now. Can finally afford a new fan belt for the DeSoto.

While a discount would be nice, I think that would still cut into the bottom line. Something I was trying to avoid doing too much (beyond dev work costs). What I was thinking would be if say a new expansion (or any content for that matter) is set to be released on March 1st (example date), then VIP would be able to access the content on Feb 14th, while the rest of the community would have to wait till the March 1st date. This would just be a shift in their release cycle, and really shouldn't be any development on their part (maybe an adjustment to the flags behind the scenes.. game checks for VIP status before zoning into new content, for example). Its not a big deal, but its just a small perk.

Oh, so VIPs can pay extra to beta-test content? This is not a VIP-perk. If discounts are out, then increased value for VIPs is the way to go. Even if it was something simple like VIPs who pre-order have the chance to pay extra for a discounted points pack it would be an improvement over current nothing.

The cosmetic thing... I really don't know why its so hard to implement something to help store all these things. They have to have an indicator on the item that it is a cosmetic (so it can go in the proper spot and not be equipped anywhere). The items are already moveable through the bank. And as you pointed out, it is shown that they can take like items and move them to a collective storage (cookies, mounts, ingredients).. So therefore it stands to reason that it should be feasible to have a storage section be for only items with the "cosmetic" tag on it. And if it IS possible, making it exclusive to VIP would be worth its weight in plat!

I don't think it is worth it. I mean to implement, yes, 100%; as a QOL adon we all need this. But as a VIP perk? No way. Two things to consider: first, its nowhere near good enough to justify a sub; and second, gating it behind a sub creates a HUGE engineering challenge. Even just making it a one-time cost premium feature would be easier.

[Logicman69]

8 cents now. Can finally afford a new fan belt for the DeSoto.

10 cents now!! ****. I think I will go get a coke!

VIP would not be beta testing. We would get the general release. Its more I think the general public would have the released delayed. Like I said, its not a big perk.. but a perk.

and let's be honest, all releases are "beta" releases till the next release comes out.

Gating the "cosmetic bank" behind VIP is a dicey decision... and probably one that would be controversial. Would it be a money maker? initially, no. I think it would be something that would not make back its development costs in 6 months. The question would be would it incentivize people to re-sub up. I honestly think it would be a BIG perk for people. Would it be a nightmare to code... yep...

[Oxarhamar]

10 cents now!! ****. I think I will go get a coke!

VIP would not be beta testing. We would get the general release. Its more I think the general public would have the released delayed. Like I said, its not a big perk.. but a perk.

and let's be honest, all releases are "beta" releases till the next release comes out.

Gating the "cosmetic bank" behind VIP is a dicey decision... and probably one that would be controversial. Would it be a money maker? initially, no. I think it would be something that would not make back its development costs in 6 months. The question would be would it incentivize people to re-sub up. I honestly think it would be a BIG perk for people. Would it be a nightmare to code... yep...

I’d not pay for a cosmetic bank there might be some that would

I would guess if they did VIP would get access then be sold slots everywhere else would have to buy access

I’d likely not put a single in there

Not something I would consider an improvement in VIP value more of a QoL for those who like cosmetics

[Logicman69]

I’d not pay for a cosmetic bank there might be some that would

I would guess if they did VIP would get access then be sold slots everywhere else would have to buy access

I’d likely not put a single in there

Not something I would consider an improvement in VIP value more of a QoL for those who like cosmetics

That could be a way to monetize it... VIP gets X slots for free, but others would have to buy it if they want it. Probably the easier way to do it.

[Eantarus]

10 cents now!! ****. I think I will go get a coke!

12. This is turning into a gold mine.

VIP would not be beta testing. We would get the general release. Its more I think the general public would have the released delayed. Like I said, its not a big perk.. but a perk.

Every release is broken in some major way upon release and has either unforeseen downtime or just general game-breaking bugs usually for about 2 weeks. Subjecting just the VIPs to that feels like more of a punishment than a perk.

Gating the "cosmetic bank" behind VIP is a dicey decision... and probably one that would be controversial. Would it be a money maker? initially, no. I think it would be something that would not make back its development costs in 6 months. The question would be would it incentivize people to re-sub up. I honestly think it would be a BIG perk for people. Would it be a nightmare to code... yep...

It would not(by itself) incentivize anyone to re-sub.

If it was a premium feature included for free with VIP then I don't think it would be controversial(as premes could just buy it with points). If it was a premium feature that came included with a whole huge VIP-rework that included a diverse range of perks then maybe yeah that would drive new subs.

[Scrag]

It would not(by itself) incentivize anyone to re-sub.

If it was a premium feature included for free with VIP then I don't think it would be controversial(as premes could just buy it with points). If it was a premium feature that came included with a whole huge VIP-rework that included a diverse range of perks then maybe yeah that would drive new subs.

So, flip side of the coin! It didn't cause me to resub. It did however prevent me from _unsubbing_ when I was getting frustrated and struggling to level/have fun. The exp stones helped me get more enhancements, which let me do things with my char and try different stuff, and ultimately kept me here.

I am getting pretty OK with my two chars now, but I will be honest, when I found out they were daily, the exp stones were really what made me stay.

Interestingly, I got a mount early early on by roll. I did NOT know they were account? server? wide. I spent a bunch of astral shards to get a nightmare horse during festivult, for the OTHER char I thought did not have one. Turns out, when I opened my mount window, _the other horse was there_.

Color me VERY NOT HAPPY that there wasn't some sort of announcement hey your mount is available everywhere when I got my black horse. It would have saved me like 150 shards.........